Better Call Saul

[rico]

As I am sure many of y'all already know, a spinoff of "Breaking Bad" titled "Better Call Saul" will be airing in 2014. This is going to be a prequel to Breaking Bad and will be based on the character of Saul Goodman from "Breaking Bad."

I, for one, will be watching. I'm sure the majority of all of you other "Breaking Bad" fans will be as well. Might as well get the discussion going sooner rather than later.

So... what are your hopes, expectations and/or concerns with the show? Here are some of mine:

Hopes: I hope to see Saul do his thing in the courtroom. I hope to see strong, unique supporting characters. I hope to see Breaking Bad foreshadowing. I hope he has an intriguing paralegal and/or assistant. I hope to see Breaking Bad characters such as Fring, Mike, etc...whoever. I hope the show kicks ass.

Expectations: I don't expect it to be as good as "Breaking Bad" (because nothing else is, really), but I expect it to be good since Vince Gilligan is writing. I somewhat expect it to have an even balance of comedy and drama...since Saul undeniably provides a substantial amount of comedic relief in "Breaking Bad." I expect to see "courtroom Saul." I expect the "Breaking Bad" references and character cameos to be less than what I hope. If it isn't even a fraction as good as "Breaking Bad," I expect it to be better than 95% of everything else on TV, since there is some shitty shit on TV these days.

Concerns: I'd be a liar if I were to say that I didn't think this show has potential of flopping and certainly failing to meet the presumed high expectations of the audience. Don't get me wrong, I think it will be good... but I think it COULD suck if not executed properly. My main concern is Saul ultimately proving himself to be a "little dab will do ya" type of character, which would lead to a show centered around his character not working out. I am hoping that the character of Saul will not be so over-used and constantly over the top, that he becomes annoying to me, thus ruining his character for me altogether... Not saying I think this will be how it goes down...just saying I think there is a CHANCE of this being the case, which prompts me to believe that a strong supporting cast is VITAL in terms of the amount of success/quality this show will accumulate. All in all, I don't think VG will steer us in an unfortunate direction though...I think they'll pull it off.

Thoughts?

DISCUS!!!!

[BWillie]

Originally Posted by Zebedee DuBois

I think he was in full remorse while he thought that he was responsible for pushing Chuck to that point.
Once Howard voiced an alternative motive for Chucks demise, Jimmy took the opportunity to shrug off all his guilt and move on without regrets. "Wasn't me"

He's still hurting. Just his way of coping.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Baby Lee

I think he sees an off ramp for the treadmill.

Chuck's demise shows him the dark end of principled living.

He probably has a mountain of guilt sitting on his stomach from what Chuck was driven to. But rather than let it consume him he is mindful of Howard's similar feelings of guilt and ready to let others suffer for their shortcomings while he takes advantage where he sees it.

Unless the writers of the show have started taking shortcuts in fear of not being around for 2-3 more years, that's just WAY to quick a switch.

I think he's turtling up a bit and we'll see it create a slow gnaw at him. To just have a 'eureka!' moment where he becomes Saul simply doesn't fit what Gilligan does, especially not on this show.

We'll see him struggling his ass off over this in the coming episodes, IMO. It's gonna eat away at him. Because if he's just decided "screw it, being good doesn't keep you alive and feeling bad just looks miserable - I'm gonna be Saul now..." then where else does this show have to go?

Nah - there's still more story to be told.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Zebedee DuBois

I think he was in full remorse while he thought that he was responsible for pushing Chuck to that point.
Once Howard voiced an alternative motive for Chucks demise, Jimmy took the opportunity to shrug off all his guilt and move on without regrets. "Wasn't me"

You must've forgotten his stunt with the insurance company. Jimmy didn't - he caught that queue and specifically asked about it.

If Jimmy thinks Howard's decision to push Chuck out was what put him over the edge, Jimmy knows that he was the catalyst behind that still. That's why he asked and that's why he just went blank.

Because mirth in the face of tragedy hasn't ever been Jimmy's thing. That's not him shrugging off blame because even if he were he STILL wouldn't have acted that glib. That's a dude who's just severed his emotions to the best of his ability because he knows he's not in control of them at the moment.

[Chiefspants]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Unless the writers of the show have started taking shortcuts in fear of not being around for 2-3 more years, that's just WAY to quick a switch.

I think he's turtling up a bit and we'll see it create a slow gnaw at him. To just have a 'eureka!' moment where he becomes Saul simply doesn't fit what Gilligan does, especially not on this show.

We'll see him struggling his ass off over this in the coming episodes, IMO. It's gonna eat away at him. Because if he's just decided "screw it, being good doesn't keep you alive and feeling bad just looks miserable - I'm gonna be Saul now..." then where else does this show have to go?

Nah - there's still more story to be told.

I think an event this big is unprecedented for the show and is pushing Jimmy into corners and rationalizations we haven't seen yet. I don't think he's Saul, but we started seeing glimpses of it in S3 and I think this is the first move where we saw him attempt to shift his moral responsibility and guilt onto another person (and by the time we meet Saul in BB, this was his standard operating procedure).

I don't think he's all the way there yet, but I do think this event has locked him into this path and removed the exit ramps (as said above).

[Baby Lee]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Unless the writers of the show have started taking shortcuts in fear of not being around for 2-3 more years, that's just WAY to quick a switch.

I think he's turtling up a bit and we'll see it create a slow gnaw at him. To just have a 'eureka!' moment where he becomes Saul simply doesn't fit what Gilligan does, especially not on this show.

We'll see him struggling his ass off over this in the coming episodes, IMO. It's gonna eat away at him. Because if he's just decided "screw it, being good doesn't keep you alive and feeling bad just looks miserable - I'm gonna be Saul now..." then where else does this show have to go?

Nah - there's still more story to be told.

I think you read too much into my assessment.
I said he saw an offramp from a treadmill. I didn't say he jumped off a cliff.
That moment when he let Howard stew alone in his guilt is an important moment, but it's not like he suddenly started scheming to cultivate underworld clients and defraud authorities. A piece of him that internalizes his hand in bad karma broke. There's still plenty of road to travel.

[Lex Luthor]

Originally Posted by sedated

I'm almost the opposite, I enjoy streaming a whole season over waiting a week for each episode.

But my office is full of people that have never heard the term "spoiler alert", so I have little choice unless I want every surprise ruined.

It's not a spoiler if the show has aired.

What do you expect everyone in your office to do? Avoid discussing a show for an entire season just because you prefer to wait and binge watch it?

Psssst! Clark Gable told the girl that he doesn't give a damn at the end of Gone With the Wind. Humphrey Bogart told the girl to get on the damn plane at the end of Casablanca.

Sorry if I spoiled those movies for you!

[Lex Luthor]

Originally Posted by Baby Lee

I think he sees an off ramp for the treadmill.

Chuck's demise shows him the dark end of principled living.

He probably has a mountain of guilt sitting on his stomach from what Chuck was driven to. But rather than let it consume him he is mindful of Howard's similar feelings of guilt and ready to let others suffer for their shortcomings while he takes advantage where he sees it.

I can't say that I really blame Jimmy. Chuck was a douchebag to the very end.

I mean, what was the point of telling Jimmy (the guy who busted his ass taking care of Chuck all of those years) that Jimmy just never really mattered to him?

I love this show.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Lex Luthor

I can't say that I really blame Jimmy. Chuck was a douchebag to the very end.

I mean, what was the point of telling Jimmy (the guy who busted his ass taking care of Chuck all of those years) that Jimmy just never really mattered to him?

I love this show.

To be as viciously cruel and cutting as possible to the person who he (correctly) blames for fully and finally ending his legal career. Again - gotta remember that Chuck sees the legal profession as a sacred calling. Agree or don't agree (I certainly don't), that's his decision lens.

And he's now seen Jimmy make a mockery of it several times and in the process essentially demolished a true believer. He's goddamn furious at Jimmy and perhaps justifiably so.

And everyone knows exactly how to bring their family to their knees. Most of us will mercifully never drop whatever that bomb may be, but Chuck absolutely knew that the way to do it was to simply treat him as an afterthought. It was the absolute most painful thing he could've done to Jimmy and that's exactly what he was looking for.

The point was to do exactly what he did. The punch landed as far as Chuck's concerned.

[stumppy]

Originally Posted by Baby Lee

I think he sees an off ramp for the treadmill.

Chuck's demise shows him the dark end of principled living.

He probably has a mountain of guilt sitting on his stomach from what Chuck was driven to. But rather than let it consume him he is mindful of Howard's similar feelings of guilt and ready to let others suffer for their shortcomings while he takes advantage where he sees it.

I kinda got the impression Howard was playing Jimmy. Like he knew the entire insurance problem was kicked off by Jimmy and was trying to kick him even more while he was down.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by stumppy

I kinda got the impression Howard was playing Jimmy. Like he knew the entire insurance problem was kicked off by Jimmy and was trying to kick him even more while he was down.

I can't see any way in the world that Howard could've known that.

Moreover, Howard has never been openly antagonistic towards Jimmy. He doesn't trust him, but there have been a number of times that he's actually seemed genuinely happy for him.

Nah - that's not something we'd have seen from Howard, IMO. I think Howard's been one of the most dynamic characters in the entire show. He's actually been one of the more upright, honorable, oddly relateable characters in the show to this point.

[stumppy]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

I can't see any way in the world that Howard could've known that.

Moreover, Howard has never been openly antagonistic towards Jimmy. He doesn't trust him, but there have been a number of times that he's actually seemed genuinely happy for him.

Nah - that's not something we'd have seen from Howard, IMO. I think Howard's been one of the most dynamic characters in the entire show. He's actually been one of the more upright, honorable, oddly relateable characters in the show to this point.

It's more than likely he didn't know. I just got that impression it was a possibility. If somehow Howard did know about Jimmy's involvement then I wouldn't put it past him.

[Baby Lee]

Originally Posted by stumppy

I kinda got the impression Howard was playing Jimmy. Like he knew the entire insurance problem was kicked off by Jimmy and was trying to kick him even more while he was down.

There's that possibility, but I don't think so.

But I do think that part of the draw of the show is ambiguities of this nature. They do solid work laying the foundations for characters, then a subsequent single revelation can throw everything ass over teakettle.

I'm in DJNL's camp on Howard being fairly straightforward and forthright, but the possibility that he has a hidden agenda is part of the allure of the narrative.

[eDave]

Originally Posted by Baby Lee

There's that possibility, but I don't think so.

But I do think that part of the draw of the show is ambiguities of this nature. They do solid work laying the foundations for characters, then a subsequent single revelation can throw everything ass over teakettle.

I'm in DJNL's camp on Howard being fairly straightforward and forthright, but the possibility that he has a hidden agenda is part of the allure of the narrative.

I don't trust that guy AT ALL.

BTW, you guys do an excellent job of dissecting this show. One of the good parts of the series.

[Chiefspants]

Hamlindigo blue

[sedated]

Originally Posted by Baby Lee

but the possibility that he has a hidden agenda is part of the allure of the narrative.

Obviously things change, but Howard's arc has been the complete opposite of that. Season 1 had him as the face of HHM continually shushing Jimmy back into the mail room for seemingly no reason.