Quarterbackery: Round 4, Heat 1 and Current Standings

[Rain Man]

Here's where we're at in the standings. Numbered teams in red are out of the tourney by either winning or losing.

One of the +2 teams will go out of the tourney in second place overall, and one of the -1 teams will go out in 31st place overall.


1. San Francisco (Champions)


+2
Green Bay New England Dallas Cowboys Miami Pittsburgh

+1
Buffalo Denver Oakland NY Giants Atlanta Cincinnati San Diego Indianapolis Baltimore Minnesota

0
Arizona Jacksonville Tennessee New Orleans Carolina Los Angeles Houston Philadelphia Seattle NY Jets

-1
Kansas City Cleveland Washington Chicago Tampa Bay

32. Detroit Lions (Last Place)


We'll start at the top in Heat 1, with five teams this time.

Dallas Cowboys

Troy Aikman - 12
Tony Romo - 8
Roger Staubach - 8
Danny White - 6
Craig Morton - 3
Don Meredith - 3 (actually led team for 7 seasons, but only 3 since 1966)
Quincy Carter - 2
Steve Pelleur - 2
Matt Cassel - 1
Jon Kitna - 1
Drew Bledsoe - 1
Vinny Testaverde - 1
Chad Hutchinson - 1
Gary Hogeboom - 1

The Cowboys have produced 20 pro bowls during this period, led by Troy Aikman with 6.

Miami

Dan Marino - 16
Bob Griese - 12
Ryan Tannehill - 4 (and current starter)
Jay Fiedler - 4
David Woodley - 3
Chad Henne - 2
Matt Moore - 1
Chad Pennington - 1
Cleo Lemon - 1
Joey Harrington - 1
Gus Frerotte - 1
A.J. Feeley - 1
Scott Mitchell - 1
Earl Morrell - 1
Dick Wood (yes, Dick Wood) - 1

The Dolphins produced 18 pro bowls during this period, led by Dan Marino with 9.

New England

Tom Brady - 14 seasons (and current starter)
Steve Grogan - 11
Drew Bledsoe - 8
Jim Plunkett - 4
Tony Eason - 3
Hugh Millen - 2
Babe Parilli - 2 (led team for 6 seasons, but only 2 since 1966)
Matt Cassel - 1
Marc Wilson - 1
Doug Flutie - 1
Joe Kapp - 1
Mike Taliafarro - 1
Tom Sherman - 1

The Patriots have produced 16 pro bowls, led by Tom Brady with 11.*

Pittsburgh

Ben Roethlisberger - 12 seasons (and current starter)
Terry Bradshaw - 12
Neil O'Donnell - 5
Kordell Stewart - 4
Mark Malone - 4
Bubby Brister - 3
Tommy Maddox - 2
Mike Tomczak - 2
Dick Shiner (yes, Dick Shiner) - 2
Cliff Stoudt - 1
Joe Gilliam - 1
Kent Nix - 1
Ron Smith - 1

The Steelers produced 9 pro bowls, led by Ben Roethlisberger with 4.

Green Bay

Brett Favre - 16 seasons
Aaron Rodgers - 8
Lynn Dickey - 8
Bart Starr - 4 (Led team for 12 seasons, but only 4 since 1966)
Don Majkowski - 3
Randy Wright - 2
David Whitehurst - 2
John Hadl - 2
Scott Hunter - 2
Mike Tomczak - 1
Jerry Tagge - 1
Don Horn - 1

The Packers produced 16 pro bowls, led by Brett Favre with 9.

[Rain Man]

I was torn between Dallas, Green Bay, and Miami at the top end. I can make an argument for all of them. In the end, Green Bay is just hard to beat. Favre is no Marino, but he's not far off, and then Rodgers and Bart Starr are just as high. Throw in a Majkowski year or two and they're my top team.

I debated New England and Pittsburgh at the bottom, and decided that Pittsburgh is better by a hair. I'm basically comparing Brady and Bledsoe for 22 years against Bradshaw and Roethlisberger for 24, and really a couple of extra years won it for Pittsburgh. It's close, but I voted New England off the island.

[Mile High Mania]

Originally Posted by Rain Man

I was torn between Dallas, Green Bay, and Miami at the top end. I can make an argument for all of them. In the end, Green Bay is just hard to beat. Favre is no Marino, but he's not far off, and then Rodgers and Bart Starr are just as high. Throw in a Majkowski year or two and they're my top team.

I debated New England and Pittsburgh at the bottom, and decided that Pittsburgh is better by a hair. I'm basically comparing Brady and Bledsoe for 22 years against Bradshaw and Roethlisberger for 24, and really a couple of extra years won it for Pittsburgh. It's close, but I voted New England off the island.

I concur... I hate Dallas, but hard to top that grouping.

[Rain Man]

Originally Posted by Mile High Mania

I concur... I hate Dallas, but hard to top that grouping.

One of the things I'm discovering in this tourney is that I must have a higher appreciation than average for Marino. I view him right up there with Montana and Manning and Brady, but based on the voting others must not agree. Marino and Griese are a pretty strong 28 years in my opinion.

[Indian Chief]

Originally Posted by Rain Man

One of the things I'm discovering in this tourney is that I must have a higher appreciation than average for Marino. I view him right up there with Montana and Manning and Brady, but based on the voting others must not agree. Marino and Griese are a pretty strong 28 years in my opinion.

I'm right there with you. I think it's that age old bias of championships. Championships (in team sports obviously) are a team achievement not an individual one. Is it a sign of greatness to put a team on your back and win a title? Yes, certainly. But as great as Peyton Manning was, he never carried his teams through the playoffs. And obviously the Broncos carried his carcass to this last one.

[Mile High Mania]

Originally Posted by Indian Chief

I'm right there with you. I think it's that age old bias of championships. Championships (in team sports obviously) are a team achievement not an individual one. Is it a sign of greatness to put a team on your back and win a title? Yes, certainly. But as great as Peyton Manning was, he never carried his teams through the playoffs. And obviously the Broncos carried his carcass to this last one.

All true, but judging by Pro Bowls is almost as silly.

[Rain Man]

Originally Posted by Mile High Mania

All true, but judging by Pro Bowls is almost as silly.

When we finish this thing, I want to do a comparison of our rankings versus number of pro bowls. On a year to year basis, the pro bowl picks are sometimes ludicrous (coughMattCasselcough), but I have a feeling that we'll see a strong pattern over 50 years between our rankings and the number of pro bowlers each team produced.

Of course, the weird thing about that is that it's so skewed by the handful of 10+ pro bowl guys. I mentioned this before, but I'm still struck by how a team's fate over a 50-year span is so radically skewed by nabbing that one 15-year Hall of Famer. And if you get two of them somehow, it's pretty much a guarantee of long-term success.

[IowaChiefs83]

So if it is last fifty years does that mean Bart Starr doesn't count?

[Rain Man]

Originally Posted by IowaChiefs83

So if it is last fifty years does that mean Bart Starr doesn't count?

Bart Starr's years from 1966 on count, of which he had four. You can see him on the Packers' list.

I had to make a cutoff somewhere, and 50 years seemed like long enough to build a timeline.

[Amnorix]

Originally Posted by Rain Man

One of the things I'm discovering in this tourney is that I must have a higher appreciation than average for Marino. I view him right up there with Montana and Manning and Brady, but based on the voting others must not agree. Marino and Griese are a pretty strong 28 years in my opinion.

Marino was f'n ridiculous, as anyone who is old enough to have seen him will attest. He was saddled with some pretty mediocre teams, which is why he never even got back to the SB after his second year. Duper and Clayton were pretty darn good, but neither was a Jerry Rice, and other than dwight stephenson, i dont know how many first team all pro type teammates he really had.

Hell, Manning had a much better cast most of his years than Marino did.

Bottom line, I'm with you on this.

[TLO]

Bubby Brister

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

UP with Pittsburgh because they are so goddamned awesome, and mother**** Miami right in the ass.

Thank you.

[jjchieffan]

Originally Posted by Mile High Mania

I concur... I hate Dallas, but hard to top that grouping.

Then you're giving to much credit to Troy Dilfer

[scho63]

I'm voting for Reeses Peanut Butter Cups being eaten by Kate Beckinsale while watching the Dallas Cowboys