Chiefs Mellinger: Fire Sutton - Page 5

excessive · 01-07-2018, 04:03 PM

Chiefs need change, and they should begin by firing defensive coordinator Bob Sutton
BY SAM MELLINGER

smellinger@kcstar.com

UPDATED 40 MINUTES AGO

Bob Sutton needs to be fired.

The Chiefs should be looking for a new defensive coordinator. There is no joy in calling for a man’s job, but then, there is no joy in watching a defense underperform its talent and fair expectations over and over and over again.

This can’t continue. That is plain. That is obvious.

Andy Reid isn’t ready to talk about this yet and that’s fine, that’s understandable, that’s his right. What’s more — that’s smart.

The head coach lives this in a way that requires space for any major change. Emotional decisions are usually bad decisions, and Reid had to know the Will You Fire Your DC question was coming in the postmortem press conference the day after another embarrassing postseason collapse.

And he had to know he would answer it with a vague non-answer.

“Time in this league has a funny way of working,” Reid said. “You’ve gotta step back. You’ve gotta evaluate. You’ve gotta go through that process. Look at what’s real, and what’s not. You don’t want to do it when you’re emotional or still tied into what happened obviously last night.

“You’ve gotta fight that. A question like that, you’ve gotta fight that. You step back and you evaluate it, and do what’s right for the Chiefs. If you always come back to that, you’re going to be OK.”

That’s an 86-word excerpt from a longer answer that can be generally summarized: “I just had my heart ripped out, again, and am not yet ready to make any decision more serious than lunch.”

Chiefs' Andy Reid reflects on Wild Card playoff loss: 'We've got to do better'
Kansas City Chiefs coach Andy Reid held a press conference a day after the Chiefs’ 22-21 loss to the Tennessee Titans in an AFC Wild Card playoff game. It was the Chiefs' sixth straight home playoff loss, a NFL record.

Allison Long The Kansas City Star
Again, you can understand where he’s coming from. Even if he somehow has already decided to move on from Sutton, he hasn’t had a chance to tell his friend and longtime assistant yet, and taking some time comes with no downside.

Potential replacements aren’t being hired, and in fact may still be working. More to the point, Reid’s coaching philosophy centers around personal accountability.

After every loss, he says some form of, “we need to get better and that starts with me.” After the offense played dead in the second half against the Titans, Reid said he called the plays that didn’t work and assistant Matt Nagy called the plays that did.

Firing his defensive coordinator the next day would reek of scapegoating.

But if he hasn’t yet, Reid must soon come to the cold and unemotional conclusion that the Chiefs need a new voice for the defense.

That needs to be only part of the change. Alex Smith must be replaced by Patrick Mahomes, offensive line coach Andy Heck needs to make a convincing case to keep his job, and no position group on the team underperformed as much as the defensive line coached by Reid’s son Britt.

Reid himself should wear the biggest chunk of this loss. He just finished his 19th season as a head coach and by now has earned a reputation for regular season success and postseason failure.

Seventy-eight teams have led by 18 or more at halftime of a playoff game. Only four have lost, and two have been coached by Reid in the last five seasons. He is tied for the third-most playoff losses of any coach in NFL history, and the two ahead of him won multiple Super Bowls.

Chiefs are on this list twice: Teams blowing an 18-point halftime lead in NFL playoffs
According to ESPN research, Andy Reid's Chiefs teams are responsible for two of the only four times in modern NFL playoff history a team has blown an 18-point or larger halftime lead.

Neil Nakahodo, David Eulitt, Shane Keyser, John Sleezer, Allison Long The Kansas City Star
Since 2001, he has won just one playoff game as the underdog, and lost seven as the favorite.

The loss to the Titans followed a familiar pattern: the offense went cold, the defense couldn’t get off the field and the Chiefs had a chance to win at the end and failed.

The standard for this team was always postseason success, so the outcome is a failure, and any credible evaluation of another wasted opportunity must acknowledge Reid’s share of this.

But he’s not going anywhere, for better or worse. Chairman Clark Hunt values the stability Reid has created after the horror show Pioli years, Reid signed a contract extension last summer, and he’ll oversee the quarterback transition to Patrick Mahomes.

Sutton has no excuse, and no cushion.

The Chiefs were 28th in total defense, and 27th in yards surrendered per play. They could not stop the run (24th in yards per carry, 202 given up in the playoff loss), which tended to overshadow the fact that they could not stop the pass (24th in yards per attempt).

Chiefs linebacker Derrick Johnson: 'If you’re good enough, you come out with that win'
Kansas City Chiefs linebacker Derrick Johnson called Saturday's playoff loss to the Titans one of the toughest of his career.

Sam Mcdowell The Kansas City Star
The advanced metrics, if anything, are worse. Football Outsiders’ DVOA ranks the Chiefs dead last in the league in overall defense.

This fits what the eye sees, too. They could not get off the field on third down (23rd, and second worst among playoff teams), and could not adjust to opponents’ schemes. Sutton allowed Daniel Sorensen to be exposed against the run for far too long, didn’t do enough to scheme pressure, and was far too easy to manipulate.

His scheme had Justin Houston rushing the passer or dropping into coverage based on what the offense showed, which meant the other side was controlling what the Chiefs’ best player did on any given snap.

Sutton had enough to work with, too, even after losing Eric Berry for the season. The Chiefs spend more than half their salary cap on defense, and that’s with stars like Chris Jones and Marcus Peters still on rookie deals, and Reggie Ragland playing for relative peanuts.

If it was bad luck that Berry played just one game, it was good luck that Houston played 17. The injury excuse is a tired one, anyway. Every team has something. The Titans had two defensive starters on IR, and they managed.

Coaches are supposed to put their players in position to succeed, and far too often, Sutton was doing the opposite. The Patriots gave up an average of 32 points in their first four games (including a season-high 42 to the Chiefs in the opener) and then an average of just 14 the rest of the way.

Patriots coach Bill Belichick is an unrealistic standard for defensive scheme, but this is two years in a row the Chiefs have lost a playoff game at home as the betting favorite largely because they could not stop the run and get off the field on third down.

Against the Titans, a team with a struggling quarterback and dangerous running back, the Chiefs used far too much nickel and even dime personnel — including on Derrick Henry’s 35 yard touchdown run in the fourth quarter.

Whether that was because the Titans were able to influence the Chiefs’ substitutions with their own personnel, or because Sutton made the decision on his own is irrelevant. This just can’t continue.

Let us say it one more time: Sutton is not the only problem, and may not even be the biggest.

Reid is Sutton’s boss, and could’ve better protected his defense and an 18-point lead with more carries for the league’s leading rusher.

Even so, the offense could’ve won the game on its last possession, and this is a staggering fact: all but one of the Chiefs’ losses this season could’ve been wins if the offense performed better on its last drive.

The Chiefs aren’t giving the next defensive coordinator a fair shot if they don’t improve the personnel, too, which is part of why the team needs to replace Smith with Mahomes. The change would create $17 million in cap space and whatever draft picks they can acquire in a trade, which is enough for a corner, edge rusher, and defensive lineman.

There can be no doubt, in any part of the organization, about whether change is needed. We can have lively and smart debates about how far that change needs to go.

But there is no question that it needs to include the defensive coordinator, whenever Reid is ready.

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/spt...193446229.html

Coach · 01-07-2018, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pasta Giant Meatball

The 03 defense didn't fall apart till the 2nd half of the season

Correct, when Mike Mal-slow-ski went down, the whole defense went down.

But even that, there were warning signs that they were going to collapse at the time.

Same thing happened this year in terms of giving up yardage.

Basically put, whoever advocates a bend-but-don't break defense, well.... it won't end well.

oldman · 01-07-2018, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaa1025

Safeties were terrible.

Don't make your SS an ILB.

Mama Hip Rockets · 01-07-2018, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach

2017 Chiefs Defense Totals
Passing Yards Allowed - 3,952
Rushing Yards Allowed - 1,890
Total Yards Allowed - 5,842

2003 Chiefs Defense Totals
Passing Yards Allowed - 3,363
Rushing Yards Allowed - 2,344
Total Yards Allowed - 5,707

And I want to say that 2017 defense, in my opinion, is far more superior in terms of talent on the defensive side than 2003 was.

Whoa.

Pasta Little Brioni · 01-07-2018, 05:31 PM

Werthers turned into Spinner 2.0

TEX · 01-07-2018, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CapsLockKey

Sutton overall isn't horrible and does a decent enough job preparing but the guy struggles at making adjustments which is why he needs to go. Too many times he's been out coached in the second half of games. I don't blame Peters for blowing up on him earlier in the year. He knows it too.

No. He's horrible. When he does make adjustments, the opposing offense knows them. It was pretty dumb to try and use Sorenson the same way as Berry, but he stuck with it.

Deberg_1990 · 01-07-2018, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach

Correct, when Mike Mal-slow-ski went down, the whole defense went down.

But even that, there were warning signs that they were going to collapse at the time.

Same thing happened this year in terms of giving up yardage.

Basically put, whoever advocates a bend-but-don't break defense, well.... it won't end well.

Both the 2003 team and Sutton’s defenses stand back and rely on the timely turnover. Turnovers are great but you can’t rely on them all the time. At some point you have to line up, smack the other team in the mouth and make them punt.

Sutton’s Ds are soft. Very soft

Coach · 01-07-2018, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deberg_1990

Both the 2003 team and Sutton’s defenses stand back and rely on the timely turnover. Turnovers are great but you can’t rely on them all the time. At some point you have to line up, smack the other team in the mouth and make them punt.

Sutton’s Ds are soft. Very soft

The difference was, 2003 couldn't force a turnover in the playoffs. This defense did (MP22 pick). That's where I was coming from in terms of talent.

Sutton's schemes and personality is just a wrong fit for KC. Way too much dime defense to my liking.

You know, what's funny is, dime defense purpose is to use a defensive alignment that uses six defensive backs. It is usually employed in obvious passing situations.

Yet, they gave up all those passing yards, 29th in the NFL. What good is a dime defense if you're giving up all those yards? It can be talent, scheme, and/or coaching.

It was the combination of all the above.

Pasta Little Brioni · 01-07-2018, 06:00 PM

Watch Henry's TD run and say he has a ****ing clue...

PAChiefsGuy · 01-07-2018, 06:00 PM

I've been saying all year how bad this defense is. It's bad in almost all phases.

I don't think Sutton is a bad DC but I don't think he is good either. I still think the problem is mostly personnel. I'd give him one more year but if the D doesn't drastically improve next season it is time for him to go.

Molitoth · 01-07-2018, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PAChiefsGuy

I've been saying all year how bad this defense is. It's bad in almost all phases.

I don't think Sutton is a bad DC but I don't think he is good either. I still think the problem is mostly personnel. I'd give him one more year but if the D doesn't drastically improve next season it is time for him to go.

1 more year!!! Says every true fan with excuses.

Sutton has been here 2 seasons too long.

**Ming the Merciless** · 01-07-2018, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PAChiefsGuy

I still think the problem is mostly personnel. I'd give him one more year but if the D doesn't drastically improve next season it is time for him to go.

I would concur here...next year should be the hotseat year for the guy

**Ming the Merciless** · 01-07-2018, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Molitoth

1 more year!!! Says every true fan with excuses.

Sutton has been here 2 seasons too long.

meh theres no hurry...we're probably not going to legitimately contend for a ring next year so PA has a reasonable point....

Molitoth · 01-07-2018, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pawnmower

meh theres no hurry...we're probably not going to legitimately contend for a ring next year so PA has a reasonable point....

Take away the turnovers (by the players) and tell me how awesome and unpredictable Sutton is.

Tell me how you misutilize one of the best pass rushers in football.

pugsnotdrugs19 · 01-07-2018, 06:17 PM

We're the only defense in the league not letting our star CB follow #1 WRs, dropping our best pass rusher into coverage half of the time, and blitzing maybe 3 times per game.

He's gotta go.

Deberg_1990 · 01-07-2018, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PAChiefsGuy

I've been saying all year how bad this defense is. It's bad in almost all phases.

I don't think Sutton is a bad DC but I don't think he is good either. I still think the problem is mostly personnel. I'd give him one more year but if the D doesn't drastically improve next season it is time for him to go.

1 more year? He’s had 5 And 2 epic playoff collapses. How much more do you need to see?

01-07-2018, 04:03 PM
excessive Starter Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: KCMO Casino cash: $9766885	Mellinger: Fire Sutton Chiefs need change, and they should begin by firing defensive coordinator Bob Sutton BY SAM MELLINGER smellinger@kcstar.com UPDATED 40 MINUTES AGO Bob Sutton needs to be fired. The Chiefs should be looking for a new defensive coordinator. There is no joy in calling for a man’s job, but then, there is no joy in watching a defense underperform its talent and fair expectations over and over and over again. This can’t continue. That is plain. That is obvious. Andy Reid isn’t ready to talk about this yet and that’s fine, that’s understandable, that’s his right. What’s more — that’s smart. The head coach lives this in a way that requires space for any major change. Emotional decisions are usually bad decisions, and Reid had to know the Will You Fire Your DC question was coming in the postmortem press conference the day after another embarrassing postseason collapse. And he had to know he would answer it with a vague non-answer. “Time in this league has a funny way of working,” Reid said. “You’ve gotta step back. You’ve gotta evaluate. You’ve gotta go through that process. Look at what’s real, and what’s not. You don’t want to do it when you’re emotional or still tied into what happened obviously last night. “You’ve gotta fight that. A question like that, you’ve gotta fight that. You step back and you evaluate it, and do what’s right for the Chiefs. If you always come back to that, you’re going to be OK.” That’s an 86-word excerpt from a longer answer that can be generally summarized: “I just had my heart ripped out, again, and am not yet ready to make any decision more serious than lunch.” Chiefs' Andy Reid reflects on Wild Card playoff loss: 'We've got to do better' Kansas City Chiefs coach Andy Reid held a press conference a day after the Chiefs’ 22-21 loss to the Tennessee Titans in an AFC Wild Card playoff game. It was the Chiefs' sixth straight home playoff loss, a NFL record. Allison Long The Kansas City Star Again, you can understand where he’s coming from. Even if he somehow has already decided to move on from Sutton, he hasn’t had a chance to tell his friend and longtime assistant yet, and taking some time comes with no downside. Potential replacements aren’t being hired, and in fact may still be working. More to the point, Reid’s coaching philosophy centers around personal accountability. After every loss, he says some form of, “we need to get better and that starts with me.” After the offense played dead in the second half against the Titans, Reid said he called the plays that didn’t work and assistant Matt Nagy called the plays that did. Firing his defensive coordinator the next day would reek of scapegoating. But if he hasn’t yet, Reid must soon come to the cold and unemotional conclusion that the Chiefs need a new voice for the defense. That needs to be only part of the change. Alex Smith must be replaced by Patrick Mahomes, offensive line coach Andy Heck needs to make a convincing case to keep his job, and no position group on the team underperformed as much as the defensive line coached by Reid’s son Britt. Reid himself should wear the biggest chunk of this loss. He just finished his 19th season as a head coach and by now has earned a reputation for regular season success and postseason failure. Seventy-eight teams have led by 18 or more at halftime of a playoff game. Only four have lost, and two have been coached by Reid in the last five seasons. He is tied for the third-most playoff losses of any coach in NFL history, and the two ahead of him won multiple Super Bowls. Chiefs are on this list twice: Teams blowing an 18-point halftime lead in NFL playoffs According to ESPN research, Andy Reid's Chiefs teams are responsible for two of the only four times in modern NFL playoff history a team has blown an 18-point or larger halftime lead. Neil Nakahodo, David Eulitt, Shane Keyser, John Sleezer, Allison Long The Kansas City Star Since 2001, he has won just one playoff game as the underdog, and lost seven as the favorite. The loss to the Titans followed a familiar pattern: the offense went cold, the defense couldn’t get off the field and the Chiefs had a chance to win at the end and failed. The standard for this team was always postseason success, so the outcome is a failure, and any credible evaluation of another wasted opportunity must acknowledge Reid’s share of this. But he’s not going anywhere, for better or worse. Chairman Clark Hunt values the stability Reid has created after the horror show Pioli years, Reid signed a contract extension last summer, and he’ll oversee the quarterback transition to Patrick Mahomes. Sutton has no excuse, and no cushion. The Chiefs were 28th in total defense, and 27th in yards surrendered per play. They could not stop the run (24th in yards per carry, 202 given up in the playoff loss), which tended to overshadow the fact that they could not stop the pass (24th in yards per attempt). Chiefs linebacker Derrick Johnson: 'If you’re good enough, you come out with that win' Kansas City Chiefs linebacker Derrick Johnson called Saturday's playoff loss to the Titans one of the toughest of his career. Sam Mcdowell The Kansas City Star The advanced metrics, if anything, are worse. Football Outsiders’ DVOA ranks the Chiefs dead last in the league in overall defense. This fits what the eye sees, too. They could not get off the field on third down (23rd, and second worst among playoff teams), and could not adjust to opponents’ schemes. Sutton allowed Daniel Sorensen to be exposed against the run for far too long, didn’t do enough to scheme pressure, and was far too easy to manipulate. His scheme had Justin Houston rushing the passer or dropping into coverage based on what the offense showed, which meant the other side was controlling what the Chiefs’ best player did on any given snap. Sutton had enough to work with, too, even after losing Eric Berry for the season. The Chiefs spend more than half their salary cap on defense, and that’s with stars like Chris Jones and Marcus Peters still on rookie deals, and Reggie Ragland playing for relative peanuts. If it was bad luck that Berry played just one game, it was good luck that Houston played 17. The injury excuse is a tired one, anyway. Every team has something. The Titans had two defensive starters on IR, and they managed. Coaches are supposed to put their players in position to succeed, and far too often, Sutton was doing the opposite. The Patriots gave up an average of 32 points in their first four games (including a season-high 42 to the Chiefs in the opener) and then an average of just 14 the rest of the way. Patriots coach Bill Belichick is an unrealistic standard for defensive scheme, but this is two years in a row the Chiefs have lost a playoff game at home as the betting favorite largely because they could not stop the run and get off the field on third down. Against the Titans, a team with a struggling quarterback and dangerous running back, the Chiefs used far too much nickel and even dime personnel — including on Derrick Henry’s 35 yard touchdown run in the fourth quarter. Whether that was because the Titans were able to influence the Chiefs’ substitutions with their own personnel, or because Sutton made the decision on his own is irrelevant. This just can’t continue. Let us say it one more time: Sutton is not the only problem, and may not even be the biggest. Reid is Sutton’s boss, and could’ve better protected his defense and an 18-point lead with more carries for the league’s leading rusher. Even so, the offense could’ve won the game on its last possession, and this is a staggering fact: all but one of the Chiefs’ losses this season could’ve been wins if the offense performed better on its last drive. The Chiefs aren’t giving the next defensive coordinator a fair shot if they don’t improve the personnel, too, which is part of why the team needs to replace Smith with Mahomes. The change would create $17 million in cap space and whatever draft picks they can acquire in a trade, which is enough for a corner, edge rusher, and defensive lineman. There can be no doubt, in any part of the organization, about whether change is needed. We can have lively and smart debates about how far that change needs to go. But there is no question that it needs to include the defensive coordinator, whenever Reid is ready. http://www.kansascity.com/sports/spt...193446229.html
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01-07-2018, 05:31 PM	#64
Pasta Little Brioni Consuming CP souls Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: U.S.A. Casino cash: $4008880	Werthers turned into Spinner 2.0 __________________ **Official TFWdemB Trivia Commisioner**
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01-07-2018, 06:00 PM	#68
Pasta Little Brioni Consuming CP souls Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: U.S.A. Casino cash: $4008880	Watch Henry's TD run and say he has a **ing clue... __________________ Official TFWdemB Trivia Commisioner**
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01-07-2018, 06:00 PM	#69
PAChiefsGuy Best Body On ChiefsPlanet Join Date: Jan 2014 Casino cash: $3004900	I've been saying all year how bad this defense is. It's bad in almost all phases. I don't think Sutton is a bad DC but I don't think he is good either. I still think the problem is mostly personnel. I'd give him one more year but if the D doesn't drastically improve next season it is time for him to go.
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01-07-2018, 06:17 PM	#74
pugsnotdrugs19 SUPER BOWL CHAMPIONS Join Date: Aug 2013 Casino cash: $9159447	We're the only defense in the league not letting our star CB follow #1 WRs, dropping our best pass rusher into coverage half of the time, and blitzing maybe 3 times per game. He's gotta go.
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