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Old 02-22-2018, 09:47 PM  
cdcox cdcox is offline
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Which of you badasses could take out an AR-ARMED killer with a handgun?

Share your choice of weapons, ammo, techiques. How can these be adopted for 45-year old out-of-date untrained teachers?
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Old 02-23-2018, 04:10 PM   #256
manchambo manchambo is offline
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Your movement of the goalposts of your hypothetical is noted. I mean, I'm kind of surprised that you say it's not a stealth attack, but are asking what a soldier that operates under attacking stealthy would use. Why ask what a SEAL would use if you're not going to listen to the answer? Why not ask what a infantry soldier would use? At least then you wouldn't look like a complete idiot. Just an idiot.
Who is moving the goal posts here? The question I was responding to was whether a handgun would be preferred in the situation. That's obviously not true--the only question is whether an SMG or rifle would be preferred.

I said "SEAL" because it's a common example of a highly skilled warrior. And of course SEALs don't always use suppressors.
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Old 02-23-2018, 04:11 PM   #257
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The simple solution would be for the US to create some policy directive + federal budgeting to create chokepoints at the schools with metal detectors that teachers and security staff man. If that's worked for federal offices, courts and air ports I can't see why it wouldn't for schools.

Rambo-teacher just seems like a bad idea though. Having to finance teacher weapons training and weapons purchases would be expensive and error prone.
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Old 02-23-2018, 04:23 PM   #258
Just Passin' By Just Passin' By is offline
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The simple solution would be for the US to create some policy directive + federal budgeting to create chokepoints at the schools with metal detectors that teachers and security staff man. If that's worked for federal offices, courts and air ports I can't see why it wouldn't for schools.

Rambo-teacher just seems like a bad idea though. Having to finance teacher weapons training and weapons purchases would be expensive and error prone.

Metal detectors and additional hired security are free, then?
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Old 02-23-2018, 04:32 PM   #259
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Metal detectors and additional hired security are free, then?
Less espensive. They're the most obvious solution and are already something you see in schools.

Arming teachers would be a new process and processes\systems that have never been tried before are expensive and prone to human stupidity and errors. Metal detectors and proper egress\choke points are age old security practices that my four year old could understand.
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Old 02-23-2018, 04:37 PM   #260
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Originally Posted by seamonster View Post
Less espensive. They're the most obvious solution and are already something you see in schools.

Arming teachers would be a new process and processes\systems that have never been tried before are expensive and prone to human stupidity and errors. Metal detectors and proper egress\choke points are age old security practices that my four year old could understand.
Ok, so you don't know what you're talking about on this issue. I get it. Let me give you a place to start learning

Quote:
About four years ago the district, which is about 85 miles north of Dallas, started what’s known as the “guardian” program: a small force of volunteer school staff allowed to carry a concealed firearm on school grounds, said school superintendent Steve Clugston.

“We’ll do whatever’s necessary to protect our kids and staff,” Clugston told CNN. “We don’t want to be at the mercy of somebody that’s intent on doing harm.”

Clugston says the school’s guardian force completes active shooter scenario training once a year and routinely takes target practice at gun ranges. Signs in front of the schools warn visitors that some staff members are armed and “may use whatever force is necessary to protect our students.”

“We trying to put our teachers in a position to be better equipped to protect their kids,” Clugston said. “And I have complete faith in our team, that they’re willing to stand up and protect our people.”

There are more than 1,000 public school districts in Texas, and about 170 of them let teachers and administrators carry concealed weapons on school grounds.
http://fox4kc.com/2018/02/23/step-in...-teachers/amp/
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Old 02-23-2018, 04:42 PM   #261
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Yeah, it's not like the President of the United States is speaking there or anything.
So it's better to make sure there are no guns there, than it is to just have a bunch of armed people around him?
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Old 02-23-2018, 04:42 PM   #262
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Ok, so you don't know what you're talking about on this issue. I get it.
How many courts have random plainclothes civilians hiding in the shadows with concealed handguns? None that I can think of. Air ports, government agencies, and military facilities use security checkpoitns. Very simple concept and it's effective.
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Old 02-23-2018, 04:44 PM   #263
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Originally Posted by seamonster View Post
How many courts have random plainclothes civilians hiding in the shadows with concealed handguns? None. And there's a reason for that. And that reason is because it's ****ing stupid. Use a security line.
Go re-read my post, and see the part that didn't post the first time.

As for the courthouse, it's full of the police.


You're not using your head.
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Old 02-23-2018, 04:46 PM   #264
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So it's better to make sure there are no guns there, than it is to just have a bunch of armed people around him?
Somebody else take this one. I've more than surpassed my retard quota for the day.
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Old 02-23-2018, 04:52 PM   #265
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Somebody else take this one. I've more than surpassed my retard quota for the day.
Generally I would agree with you, but I'm thinking back now on all the comments about how, if Clinton wants gun control, she should have her security escort disarmed. They are two sides of the same idiotic coin.
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Old 02-23-2018, 04:59 PM   #266
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Somebody else take this one. I've more than surpassed my retard quota for the day.
I believe your retardation has no limits.
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Old 02-23-2018, 05:19 PM   #267
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Who is moving the goal posts here? The question I was responding to was whether a handgun would be preferred in the situation. That's obviously not true--the only question is whether an SMG or rifle would be preferred.

I said "SEAL" because it's a common example of a highly skilled warrior. And of course SEALs don't always use suppressors.
Agreed, SEALs don't always use suppressors. But in my answer to your hypothetical he does. And there is a very valid reason for him to do so.
You also have an actual Spec Ops member explaining to you what they would use in your hypothetical, you should listen.

The SEAL is going to use an SMG because of it's close quarters functionality. In a school shooting scenario, the SEAL does not need to fire at distance down range. He will be within 30 feet of his target(s). He does not need higher caliber fire power as he will not be facing an armed threat potentially with body armor. He will face an unarmed target in confined spaces...which is perfect for a SMG that fires 9mm or .40 ammo. The SMG weighs substantially less weight and is shorter, making the SEAL more mobile.
That is why the choice of SMG would be used in a school shooting scenario involving a highly trained member of an elite special forces group.
Now, if you were plotting a scenario where the SEAL must traverse through open range, dealing with an armed and armored target, he'd go with a Carbine rifle. (M4, HK416, MK17, MK18 etc.)
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Old 02-23-2018, 07:28 PM   #268
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My nightstand gun is a Glock 22 in 40. It is a good, reliable gun, but a hunk of shit compared to my Sigs and CZs. I rarely take it to the range.
This makes no sense. You forgo the best guns for a "hunk of shit" in a situation where your life would be on the line?
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Old 02-23-2018, 08:08 PM   #269
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This makes no sense. You forgo the best guns for a "hunk of shit" in a situation where your life would be on the line?
It's only a "hunk of shit" compared to my other pistols which have an average value of over a thousand dollars. Of those, two are single stack 1911s, one is a CZ SP-01 Shadow, and the other is my carry CZ compact carry pistol. The 1911s are single stack guns, so they have lower magazine capacity. They also have external safeties, as does the Shadow. I don't want a gun I'd expect to use when awakened in the middle of the night to have an external safety. Also, I have the Glock outfitted with flashlight, which can't be mounted on my carry gun, since it doesn't have a rail.

The Glock is a reliable gun, has never failed to fire, requires no additional thought to use when one is in an emergency situation, and is outfitted perfectly for it's role.
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Old 02-24-2018, 07:33 AM   #270
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Originally Posted by seamonster View Post
The simple solution would be for the US to create some policy directive + federal budgeting to create chokepoints at the schools with metal detectors that teachers and security staff man. If that's worked for federal offices, courts and air ports I can't see why it wouldn't for schools.

Rambo-teacher just seems like a bad idea though. Having to finance teacher weapons training and weapons purchases would be expensive and error prone.
So you are in favor of trained personnel with firearms and security checkpoints in schools. Now it's just a debate as to the level of training for those personnel. Just as someone can be both a lawyer and a doctor cannot someone be both trained in security as well as be a teacher? Who would you wish to provide that training?
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