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Old 03-25-2013, 05:23 PM  
petegz28 petegz28 is offline
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DHS To Buy 360,000 More Rounds of Hollow Point Ammunition

Arms build-up continues as Congress demands answers

Paul Joseph Watson
Infowars.com
March 25, 2013

While the Department of Homeland Security continues to ignore members of Congress demanding to know why the federal agency is engaged in an apparent arms build-up, the DHS has just announced it plans to purchase another 360,000 rounds of hollow point ammunition to add to the roughly 2 billion bullets already bought over the past year.

A solicitation on the Federal Business Opportunities website details the DHS’ plan to purchase 360,000 rounds of “Commercial leaded training ammo (CLTA) Pistol .40 caliber 165 grain, jacketed hollow point.” The bullets are to be delivered to the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center in Artesia, New Mexico, the same destination for 240,000 hollow point rounds which were purchased only last month.

Although the DHS has attempted to explain its mammoth purchase of ammunition by claiming the bullets are being acquired in bulk to save money and that they are for training purposes only, this has been disputed by reputable voices such as former Marine Richard Mason, who told reporters with WHPTV News in Pennsylvania earlier this month, “We never trained with hollow points, we didn’t even see hollow points my entire four and a half years in the Marine Corps.”

Hollow point bullets are almost twice as expensive as full metal jackets, therefore the DHS’ explanation that it is buying huge quantities in bulk to “save money” doesn’t make sense.

As we reported yesterday, concerns about the apparent arms build-up are growing, with retired United States Army Captain Terry M. Hestilow sending a letter to Sen. John Cornyn (R-TX) warning that the ammo purchases represent “a bold threat of war by that agency (DHS), and the Obama administration, against the citizens of the United States of America.”

Questions from members of Congress about why the federal agency is buying up ammo, exacerbating shortages across the country, have been met with silence.

- Kansas Congressman Timothy Huelscamp said last week that threats should be made to withdraw funding from the DHS if it didn’t explain why it was purchasing so many bullets, remarking, “They have no answer for that question. They refuse to answer to answer that.”

- Earlier this month, New Jersey Congressman Leonard Lance said, “Congress has a responsibility to ask Secretary Napolitano as to exactly why these purchases have occurred,” signaling his intention to get answers.

- Californian Congressman Doug LaMalfa and 14 of his House colleagues have written a letter to the Department of Homeland Security asking if the purchases are, “being conducted in a manner that strategically denies the American people access to ammunition.”

Although members of Congress are treating the matter with the seriousness it deserves, the mainstream and leftist media have attempted to ridicule the entire issue as a conspiracy theory, with Atlantic Wire even suggesting that the story had its origins in a debunked email, a report that completely failed to even mention the admitted fact that the DHS had purchased around 2 billion bullets.

While the DHS continues to purchase bullets in large quantities, police departments have been forced to barter amongst each other in a desperate scramble to meet their ammo needs.

*********************

Paul Joseph Watson is the editor and writer for Infowars.com and Prison Planet.com. He is the author of Order Out Of Chaos. Watson is also a host for Infowars Nightly News.


This article was posted: Monday, March 25, 2013 at 10:08 am

http://www.infowars.com/dhs-to-buy-3...nt-ammunition/
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Old 03-27-2013, 12:05 PM   #151
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Wow man you're blind.
Convincing rebuttal. Thanks for setting the record straight...
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Old 03-27-2013, 01:18 PM   #152
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Convincing rebuttal. Thanks for setting the record straight...
no prob
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Old 03-27-2013, 02:35 PM   #153
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Has anyone got to the most likely answer yet?

Folks - it's free money. The Fed doesn't give two shits about 'saving money'. It probably actually is for target practice and yes, HPs do give a slightly more accurate, consistent shot.

So if it's free money (and having dealt with federal prosecutors before, trust me - that's exactly how they view it), why the hell do they care if it's not cost effective to shoot the absolute most accurate round available?

Pete's right - their 'cost savings' answer is bullshit. But I think he's missing the most obvious answer: our Federal Government is full of irresponsible spenders and has been for decades. They're buying up expensive bullets because by God, that's the best kind and who cares about the bill? Afterall, it's not like the US pays its debts anyway.
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Old 03-27-2013, 03:13 PM   #154
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Has anyone got to the most likely answer yet?

Folks - it's free money. The Fed doesn't give two shits about 'saving money'. It probably actually is for target practice and yes, HPs do give a slightly more accurate, consistent shot.

So if it's free money (and having dealt with federal prosecutors before, trust me - that's exactly how they view it), why the hell do they care if it's not cost effective to shoot the absolute most accurate round available?

Pete's right - their 'cost savings' answer is bullshit. But I think he's missing the most obvious answer: our Federal Government is full of irresponsible spenders and has been for decades. They're buying up expensive bullets because by God, that's the best kind and who cares about the bill? Afterall, it's not like the US pays its debts anyway.
I pretty much agree--except Pete's answer is not right. "Cost savings" doesn't go to why they are buying hollow points--as you said the main reason for that is that it is a more accurate, consistent shot--and because it is what they use in the field.

"Cost savings" goes to why they are buying so many. Buying more presumably costs less per bullet than buying less.

Plus, this "huge" quantity of really means even less when no one can tell me what is a "normal" purchase or what is the "right" amount to have.
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Old 03-27-2013, 03:33 PM   #155
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I pretty much agree--except Pete's answer is not right. "Cost savings" doesn't go to why they are buying hollow points--as you said the main reason for that is that it is a more accurate, consistent shot--and because it is what they use in the field.

"Cost savings" goes to why they are buying so many. Buying more presumably costs less per bullet than buying less.

Plus, this "huge" quantity of really means even less when no one can tell me what is a "normal" purchase or what is the "right" amount to have.
Sorry, but both of you guys have that backwards. An FMJ is going to carry it’s velocity further down range with less drop/drift than a JHP, meaning it will maintain accuracy for a longer distance. It has to do with the aerodynamics of the bullet.
Within the effective range of a .40 cal handgun the difference is negligible though.
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Old 03-27-2013, 03:34 PM   #156
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I understood that you said using the hollow points was infrequent. At least a couple other people said something similar--infrequent, but sometimes. At least one person mentioned that it was recommended to practice with what you normally use.

Taking all that in from just a small sample, it seems pretty ridiculous to me to say, "No one would ever use hollow points for practice."

Also take into account that we're not talking about recreational shooters or someone just shaking off the rust to be ready for that armed burglar--we're talking about professional trained federal law enforcement. To me, it does not seem too outrageous that they might practice with what they use in the field.

Also, taking into account the alternate theory that the rounds are not for practice but for citizen enslavement, and I think my theory makes a lot more sense.
I did not say infrequent I said on rare occasions I have added together a total of a handful rounds over my lifetime. Speaking to pistol range and the practice with what you shoot theory IMO it is silly to run hollow points through paper. I have attached three types of rounds, one is my home defense round, one is a regular target round, one is a reload I had made up with a slight grain adjustment of 155 GR as opposed to the standard 165 GR. I heard that the 155 load was more accurate. I can assure you that at 25 yards or less the difference is not measurable. I have not fired the Hornady 40 S&W FTX rounds. However I have fired the others single squeeze and burst. It should also be noted that the hollow point rounds are aerodynamically superior to the other rounds due to the filler in the center which is to create a more efficient spread. If anything they would travel short distances more accurately IMO although I have no scientific proof to support that assumption. The only thing that effects a shooter at short distance would be recoil. In closing I am a pistol guy and have much less interest in rifles. I will make no bold statement that I am world class however I am damn sure above average with a semi auto or a revolver. So yeah I have a hard ****ing time buying the practice rounds theory~
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Old 03-27-2013, 03:38 PM   #157
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I did not say infrequent I said on rare occasions I have added together a total of a handful rounds over my lifetime. Speaking to pistol range and the practice with what you shoot theory IMO it is silly to run hollow points through paper. I have attached three types of rounds, one is my home defense round, one is a regular target round, one is a reload I had made up with a slight grain adjustment of 155 GR as opposed to the standard 165 GR. I heard that the 155 load was more accurate. I can assure you that at 25 yards or less the difference is not measurable. I have not fired the Hornady 40 S&W FTX rounds. However I have fired the others single squeeze and burst. It should also be noted that the hollow point rounds are aerodynamically superior to the other rounds due to the filler in the center which is to create a more efficient spread. If anything they would travel short distances more accurately IMO although I have no scientific proof to support that assumption. The only thing that effects a shooter at short distance would be recoil. In closing I am a pistol guy and have much less interest in rifles. I will make no bold statement that I am world class however I am damn sure above average with a semi auto or a revolver. So yeah I have a hard ****ing time buying the practice rounds theory~
A simple, "I am wrong and Cosmo is right" would have sufficed.
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Old 03-27-2013, 03:49 PM   #158
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A simple, "I am wrong and Cosmo is right" would have sufficed.
you are delusional~
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Old 03-27-2013, 04:13 PM   #159
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Sorry, but both of you guys have that backwards. An FMJ is going to carry it’s velocity further down range with less drop/drift than a JHP, meaning it will maintain accuracy for a longer distance. It has to do with the aerodynamics of the bullet.
Within the effective range of a .40 cal handgun the difference is negligible though.
At the effective range of a .40 cal, manufacturing quality and the weight balance of the HP makes it a more consistent round for target shooting.

Over distance I agree with you - a FMJ is likely going to be more accurate (in fact, my hunting rifles all use soft points, which have the ballistic quality of the FMJ with the mushrooming of a HP for just that reason).

But with a .40 cal handgun, you're going to get a more 'precise' shot due to the higher quality round and more consistent weight distribution.

If I gave zero ****s about money, I'd shoot exclusively HPs for target shooting; it's just a more consistent bullet.
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Old 03-27-2013, 04:46 PM   #160
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Of course plenty of things the government does are problematic. But why does the existence of Obamacare or (insert disagreeable policy here) mean they are intending to enslave the nation? How is there a connection? Where I see poor policy as a poor attempt to fix issues as a means for politicians to be elected by catering to their supporters and staying in power, are you suggesting that you see these policies as actually in place to one day take over the population?

Perhaps at their inception government programs were nothing more than misguided good intentions. But we have come a long way from that. The nature of government is to grow in size and power. Obamacare FORCES people into doing something that before we had a choice over. You don't comply you are penalized. And we are not talking about imposing restrictions on murder or rape here. There is no comparison. Does that not sound like a government trying to control? The idiot mayor of New York is trying to control people's diets. Not controlling or enslaving? Really? We are dealing with an elitist mind set from certain people that think they know better than you and me how to live OUR lives. Why? What makes them so much better than us? So yes, I do believe that all of these policies and programs are now with the intention enslaving us.

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Again, many things the government does are problems because they don't fix things or only make them worst, but this is not a warning sign to me that Obama is the next Castro or Hitler. That is the jump I cannot make. It is really just par for the course as far as politicians go.
Since when do the scum bags that are politicians looked upon as good intentioned human beings? They lie, steal, cheat and are disloyal. Everyone bitches about it. But then when some issue of public concern arises people forget all of those things and look at them to save us. That is the jump that I cannot make, from dirt bags to public saviours. It's a MUCH smaller jump to conclude that their actions are nefarious in intent.
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Old 03-27-2013, 05:06 PM   #161
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You really think there any chance in the world that the US turns communist?
Among other possibilities, sure.

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FEMA army? Obama picking commanders who will fire on Americans?

Wow....
The FEMA youth corps reeks to high heaven, I don't care what anyone says. And there are stories out there that Obama is changing out the command in the military. As I said they are still unfounded but, they are growing.
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Old 03-27-2013, 05:27 PM   #162
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The FEMA youth corps reeks to high heaven, I don't care what anyone says. And there are stories out there that Obama is changing out the command in the military. As I said they are still unfounded but, they are growing.
Kook! Not true unless you can post a link to an e-mail from Obama to Napolitano and Hagel specifically ordering these things, certified by Piers Morgan, in triplicate/cosmo
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Old 03-27-2013, 05:29 PM   #163
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I really don't know but I would make a broad stroke and venture to guess none of these past dictatorship governments had term limits or an impeachment process that didn't involve putting the person in a guillotine.
Since when do laws matter to tyrants?

But just for shits and giggles, here is some of Cuba's history...

"In 1902, the United States handed over control to a Cuban government that as a condition of the transfer had included in its constitution provisions implementing the requirements of the Platt Amendment, which among other things gave the United States the right to intervene militarily in Cuba. Havana and Varadero became popular tourist resorts. The Cuban population gradually enacted civil rights anti-discrimination legislation that ordered minimum employment quotas for Cubans.[citation needed]
President Tomás Estrada Palma was elected in 1902, and Cuba was declared independent, though Guantanamo Bay was leased to the United States as part of the Platt Amendment. The status of the Isle of Pines as Cuban territory was left undefined until 1925 when the United States finally recognized Cuban sovereignty over the island. Estrada Palma, a frugal man, governed successfully for his four-year term; yet when he tried to extend his time in office, a revolt ensued. In 1906, the United States representative William Howard Taft, notably with the personal diplomacy of Frederick Funston, negotiated an end of the successful revolt led by able young general Enrique Loynaz del Castillo,[68] who had served under Antonio Maceo in the final war of independence. Estrada Palma resigned. The United States Governor Charles Magoon assumed temporary control until 1909.[69] In this period in the area of Manzanillo, Agustín Martín Veloz and Francisco (Paquito) Rosales founded the embryonic Cuban Communist Party.[70]
For three decades, the country was led by former War of Independence leaders, who after being elected did not serve more than two constitutional terms. The Cuban presidential succession was as follows: José Miguel Gómez (1908–1912); Mario García Menocal (1913–1920); Alfredo Zayas (1921–25).[71]
In World War I, Cuba declared war on Imperial Germany on 7 April 1917, the day after the US entered the war. Despite being unable to send troops to fight in Europe, Cuba played a significant role as a base to protect the West Indies from U-Boat attacks. A draft law was instituted, and 25,000 Cuban troops raised, but the war ended before they could be sent into action.
[edit]After World War I
President Gerardo Machado was elected by popular vote in 1925, but he was constitutionally barred from reelection. Machado, determined to modernize Cuba, set in motion several massive civil works projects such as the Central Highway, but at the end of his constitutional term he held on to power. The United States, despite the Platt Amendment, decided not to interfere militarily. The communists of the PCC did very little to resist Machado in his dictator phase; however, numerous other groups did. In the late 1920s and early 1930s a number of Cuban action groups, including some Mambí, staged a series of uprisings that either failed or did not affect the capital.
The revolution of 1933 undermined the institutions and coercive structures of the oligarchic state. The young and relatively inexperienced revolutionaries found themselves pushed into the halls of state power by worker and peasant mobilisations. Between September 1933 and January 1934 a loose coalition of radical activists, students, middle-class intellectuals, and disgruntled lower-rank soldiers formed a Provisional Revolutionary Government. This coalition was directed by a popular university professor, Dr Ramón Grau San Martín. The Grau government promised a 'new Cuba' with social justice for all classes, and the abrogation of the Platt Amendment. While the revolutionary leaders certainly wanted diplomatic recognition by Washington, they believed their legitimacy stemmed from the popular rebellion which brought them to power, and not from the approval of the United States' Department of State.
To this end, throughout the autumn of 1933 the government decreed a dramatic series of reforms. The Platt Amendment was unilaterally abrogated, and all the political parties of the Machadato were dissolved. The Provisional Government granted autonomy to the University of Havana, women obtained the right to vote, the eight-hour day was decreed, a minimum wage was established for cane-cutters, and compulsory arbitration was promoted. The government created a Ministry of Labour, and a law was passed establishing that 50 per cent of all workers in agriculture, commerce and industry had to be Cuban citizens. The Grau regime set agrarian reform as a priority, promising peasants legal title to their lands. For the first time in Cuban history the country was governed by people who did not negotiate the terms of political power with Spain (before 1898), or with the United States (after 1898). The Provisional Government survived until January 1934, when it was overthrown by an equally loose anti-government coalition of right-wing civilian and military elements. Led by a young sergeant, Fulgencio Batista y Zaldivar, this movement was supported by the United States.[72]
Batista, with his straight Taíno hair and very dark skin, often lightened in later photographs, was known as "El Mulato Lindo". He was Cuba's first and only mulatto leader."
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Old 03-27-2013, 05:31 PM   #164
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The FEMA youth corps reeks to high heaven, I don't care what anyone says.
No such thing as FEMA "youth" Corps, but:

FEMA Corps is a civilian operation for persons between the ages of 18 and 24. It is a unit within AmeriCorps, a community service program.

FEMA Corps is solely devoted to preparing for and responding to disasters. Corps members work with the Federal Emergency Management Agency, which dispatches them to disaster areas. They recently helped Hurricane Sandy victims in Long Beach, N.Y., registering them for federal assistance.

What Is AmeriCorps? http://www.americorps.gov/about/ac/index.asp

Each year, AmeriCorps offers 75,000 opportunities for adults of all ages and backgrounds to serve through a network of partnerships with local and national nonprofit groups. Whether your service makes a community safer, gives a child a second chance, or helps protect the environment, you’ll be getting things done through AmeriCorps!

AmeriCorps members address critical needs in communities all across America. As an AmeriCorps member, you can:

Tutor and mentor disadvantaged youth
Fight illiteracy
Improve health services
Build affordable housing
Teach computer skills
Clean parks and streams
Manage or operate after-school programs
Help communities respond to disasters
Build organizational capacity

PURE EVIL.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Raiderhader View Post
And there are stories out there that Obama is changing out the command in the military. As I said they are still unfounded but, they are growing.
If a story is growing, well, what else is there?
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Old 03-27-2013, 05:31 PM   #165
Raiderhader Raiderhader is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frazod View Post
Kook! Not true unless you can post a link to an e-mail from Obama to Napolitano and Hagel specifically ordering these things, certified by Piers Morgan, in triplicate/cosmo

I wonder how many of these people that arguing against this possibility believe in the 9/11 conspiracy?
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Raiderhader has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.Raiderhader has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.Raiderhader has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.Raiderhader has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.Raiderhader has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.Raiderhader has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.Raiderhader has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.Raiderhader has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.Raiderhader has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.Raiderhader has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.Raiderhader has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.
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