Breaking Bad

[irishjayhawk]

Anyone watching this magnificent show?

[ChiefaRoo]

Originally Posted by Dr. Gigglepants

What were Walt's exact words to Skyler in the hotel room when they were talking about Jesse? Didn't he say something like Jesse has never hurt anyone who didn't deserve it or something like that? How did Gale deserve it again? Just asking because with all the talk about Jesse being the moral compass of the show I had forgotten that he out a bullet through Gales head.
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He also shot Tuco but that was in self defense.

[Braincase]

Spoiler!

True story - a few years back my wife had a gas pump malfunction right on her. Hose detached right over the top of her. If only Walt had heard that story.

[NewChief]

Originally Posted by ChiefaRoo

He also shot Tuco but that was in self defense.

He strangled that one guy too.

[Micjones]

Originally Posted by Cave Johnson

Ya think?



Uh, no.

Gee that was eloquent.
A well-reasoned response be damned eh?

[Micjones]

Originally Posted by Brainiac

You're not judged by how you treat the people you care about. It doesn't take a saint to refrain from killing the people you like.

Because clearly no one in the real world ever mistreats or harms the people they love. Wait...

Walt is an evil sociopathic bastard who doesn't hesitate to kill anybody who crosses his path. He was perfectly fine with Todd killing the kid on the motorbike. He was perfectly fine with poisoning Brock. He was perfectly fine with watching Jesse's girlfriend die right in front of him when he could have easily saved her. He was perfectly fine with ordering Jesse to kill Gail, a guy who admired Walt and desperately sought his approval.

1. Walt didn't shoot Drew Sharp. How exactly is he responsible for Todd being an impulsive idiot?

2. Walt poisoning Brock was a play to convince Jesse that Gus Fring was the danger that needed to be dealt with. That was about survival. The kid didn't die.

3. Walt watched Jane die because he knew that otherwise Jesse ODs a month later with a dufflebag full of cash, ZERO self-control, and a relapsed junkie girlfriend by his side. He was torn up to see Jesse so hurt by it. It was him who paid for Jesse's rehab.

4. Had Walt not snuffed Gale out, he dies at the hands of Mike. Survival again...

I don't see how anybody can say he is NOT a purely evil monster.

Walt has EVERY reason to kill Jesse, Hank, and Marie...this very second...and he hasn't...yet.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by eazyb81

Yeah, Vince Gilligan has tried to tell everyone that will listen that Walt is a bad guy, but everything "bad" he's done can be justified through self-preservation.

Jane was a junkie and was bringing Jesse down. The Brock incident was unfortunate but he used a poison that he knew would not harm him long-term. Todd killed the boy in the desert, not Walt. Granted, these can clearly be argued depending on what side you're on, but it is pretty clear that Walt is not pure evil. The cartel game is just a serious business.

Unfortunately, it looks like the writers are taking us down the predictable path of having Hank and Jesse take him down at the end, which frankly is boring to me. Hopefully they have a few more surprises up their sleeves.

i disagree that it was self-preservation. Everything Walt has done is to feed his own ego, and because "more" is never enough.

He couldn't stand Hank giving credit to some other "mastermind." So he was willing to blow his entire family's cover
He couldn't stand Gus and Mike handling the business side of the operation, and so he eliminated those guys
He couldn't stand the thought of other people thinking less of him, so he lied to family (Hank, Marie, Walt Jr.) about Skyler, threw her under the bus, and made her look like the bad guy to save his own face
He couldn't stand the thought of his colleague making money off his ideas, so he blocked Jesse from exiting so that he could basically outslug his colleague

The only self-preservation is saving his own face and satisfying his own ego. He's had multiple opportunities to "preserve" himself by exiting and keeping his mouth shut. But has chosen not to.

[Micjones]

Originally Posted by cosmo20002

Just to play devil's advocate--

I don't think he was fine with Todd killing the kid, but once done, it's done. Not exactly like there was anything he could do about it.

I don't think he intended to kill Brock and poisoned him with something deadly but treatable. If he really wanted him dead, he could of used the ricin.

In a way, letting Jesse's girlfriend die was saving Jesse. I saw his lack of action there as not so much not caring about her, but wanting to get Jesse away from the junkies that would end up killing him.

Gail was purely self-preservation. Walt would have been dead. The gun was literally pointed at his head.

Just playing devil's advocate--

I said all of the same things BEFORE I even read your response.

There might be only one thing I can say that Walt has done...the entire series...that was gratuitous (killing Mike, but even that is open for debate). It's ALL been about survival.

[Micjones]

Originally Posted by Gadzooks

It would be interesting if the title "Breaking Bad" applied to all of the characters.
What if Jesse thinks Walt "really lives" with his family and goes after them?
What if Hank goes along since he only tolerates his in-laws due to Marie's purple snatch.

Walt's family is dead. He realizes his mission has been all for naught, gets a big ass gun, gets his ricin and finally revenge.

Who's the good guy?

Now that's a ****in' ending.

Great point. Every character in the series has shared the spotlight of fallibility and depravity. Making Walter the great evil of the show is a mistake. I think it simplifies and ignores the complexity of these characters.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by Micjones

Great point. Every character in the series has shared the spotlight of fallibility and depravity. Making Walter the great evil of the show is a mistake. I think it simplifies and ignores the complexity of these characters.

Not every character. Many of the main characters have. Hank, Walt, Skyler have all shown fallibility, big time.

Jesse is a guy who at least tries to "break good" and shows remorse for his actions. Mike pays off snitches when he has the option of killing them, and ends up staying in the game for the sake of his granddaughter. Marie broke bad early, then has been a redeeming character since.

Agree on the complexity of the characters. But think it's pretty clear that Gilligan is purposely showing Walt as an extremely fallible character. Despite what some have said here, think he's doing the same for Hank too, so I don't think he's necessarily setting up a showdown between good and evil.

[Micjones]

Am I the ONLY person that doesn't want this to come down to Jesse and Walt?
I would absolutely HATE that. Jesse was a meth dealer before Walter White ever came along. He is NOT the innocent, helpless child some of you make him out to be.

[Micjones]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Not every character. Many of the main characters have. Hank, Walt, Skyler have all shown fallibility, big time.

Just about. Who doesn't this apply to? Holly? Walter Jr.?

Agree on the complexity of the characters. But think it's pretty clear that Gilligan is purposely showing Walt as an extremely fallible character. Despite what some have said here, think he's doing the same for Hank too, so I don't think he's necessarily setting up a showdown between good and evil.

I think he is. He's said it all along. That the idea of morality and justice are the scaffolding for the entire show.

I've always said that Breaking Bad is the opposite of House, M.D.

House was a drama with a moral spine that looked at how choices affect relationships.

Br Ba is a drama with a moral spine that looks at how relationships affect choices.

[Micjones]

I saw it asked earlier, but wasn't it revealed that Gus Fring made the call to warn Hank about the hitmen?

[The Franchise]

Originally Posted by Micjones

I saw it asked earlier, but wasn't it revealed that Gus Fring made the call to warn Hank about the hitmen?

Yes.

[Lex Luthor]

Originally Posted by loochy

Some of us don't because we realize it's a make believe story.

That's a ridiculous argument.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by Micjones

Am I the ONLY person that doesn't want this to come down to Jesse and Walt?
I would absolutely HATE that. Jesse was a meth dealer before Walter White ever came along. He is NOT the innocent, helpless child some of you make him out to be.

To answer the post below too...
I think the reason Jesse is an interesting character is he's a guy who breaks bad who repeatedly tries to break good. The reason the word sociopath gets thrown around for Walt is that he's not even human anymore. He's completely lost his concept of right and wrong, and has no remorse for what he does. Skyler was a character that unexpectedly took this turn for the worse.

But he can't because he has no control. in some cases, it's his own addictions. In others, it's because he's being manipulated and toyed with. But he's the only guy making the effort and one of the only characters with the humanity to realize what his actions are doing to people.