Raising bison

[Fat Elvis]

Has anyone done it? What were your experiences doing it? And for those who haven't raised buffalo, have you eaten it, and do you like it?

[Direckshun]

Originally Posted by thabear04

You just KNOW that guy is ****ing that buffalo.

[Fat Elvis]

Originally Posted by Buehler445

Pretty sure he's got his grass split into paddocks. I think that's what he's referring to.

No, it's four sections. Ours and three others. The water for all four sections is on our land. One of the other sections may have a small well, but they can only get about 4-5 head in there at a time. That is probably about 800+ head of cattle that is winding up on our land when we should be looking at about 200-250 if we are supposing 3 acre/head.

[Fat Elvis]

Originally Posted by Buehler445

This. They are ****ing wild. Strong ass wild cows. And they jump like bastards.



OK, well, a couple things here. If you as the landowner are responsible for fence maintenance, don't do it. It will take a significant capital outlay to get it ready for buffalo.

As far as the feedlot thing, unless they're marketing them as grass fed, there is a pretty good chance they end up at a feedlot being treated like beef cows (grain fed, antibiotics, medications for sickies). There was a feedlot down the road that did just that, and I believe it is a 30,000 head lot. Maybe they still feed them out there, I haven't been by there in awhile. So if you are wanting to do it for warm fuzziess, you may not gain anything.

As far as rent, you can call the ag-econ department at KSU and they can give you a rough estimation of what your grass is worth for free. They're pretty familiar with flinthills grass.

You can probably talk to your county extension agent for a visit to discuss overgrazing.

I'm not a livestock guy, but if you have any specific questions, feel free to PM me.

There seems to be quite a range of opinion on what types of fence you need. I know it needs to be at least 6 ft high; can't quite figure out what it needs to be made of. Any idea on what should be used and how much ~7000 yards would cost? Some people seem to think you need a fortress, some seem to think you need next to nothing-reality is somwhere in between.

[Perineum Ripper]

Originally Posted by Fat Elvis

There seems to be quite a range of opinion on what types of fence you need. I know it needs to be at least 6 ft high; can't quite figure out what it needs to be made of. Any idea on what should be used and how much ~7000 yards would cost? Some people seem to think you need a fortress, some seem to think you need next to nothing-reality is somwhere in between.

I run Angus cattle and I have been redoing all my fence with Redbrand 4 point barb wire..I use 6.5 ft tall steel post and hedge posts..4 steel then 1 hedge..I put 5 strands of wire on..depending on the area I use 6 strands..like my lots keeping cattle out of neighbors fields

With bison I would probably use the same equipment but move the steel post to wood post around 3 to 1..the wood post help keep the wire from getting stretched if they push on it..Redbrand wire has really good barbs on it so if it pokes them enough it should keep them from pushing too much

I would imagine that if the bison have enough food and nothing bothering them in the fields then I can't see them pushing to get out

Oh if you have the income to do it..look into high tensile fencing..it is smooth wire but half of the wires are electric..I have heard it is really good fence..kind of a pain to first learn but once figured out it is good shit

Hope this helps

[Iowanian]

Barbed wire rates in iowania are around $1.50/ft or near $2k/ 1/4 mile. Fencing isn't cheap. That is also a standard fencing rate and would increase if you go 6 barb and more if fence is taller or woven wire.

Relating to water I am not sure how that works in Kansas but it is my understanding that you cannot do things to remove water rights from neighbors. Example you couldn't divert or pond a stream if it took water away from downstream neighbors.


You didn't answer my question. Do you have livestock experience or does your family own land and you think it should be generating more income. Do you understand livestock and the associated work? Calving. Treatment of sickness, pinkeye, hoof rot, working them. Hay production, winter feeding etc? You have water. Is it heated or are you chopping ice every day of winter?

[Lonewolf Ed]

I like buffalo burgers and there was this meat shop in Montana that sold buffalo jerky and that stuff absolutely astounding.

[rockymtnchief]

Originally Posted by Fat Elvis

There seems to be quite a range of opinion on what types of fence you need. I know it needs to be at least 6 ft high; can't quite figure out what it needs to be made of. Any idea on what should be used and how much ~7000 yards would cost? Some people seem to think you need a fortress, some seem to think you need next to nothing-reality is somwhere in between.

I've done work on two different bison ranches. Both had normal barb-wire fences. The only ranch I've been on that had 6' fences was to contain elk.

[Buehler445]

Originally Posted by Fat Elvis

There seems to be quite a range of opinion on what types of fence you need. I know it needs to be at least 6 ft high; can't quite figure out what it needs to be made of. Any idea on what should be used and how much ~7000 yards would cost? Some people seem to think you need a fortress, some seem to think you need next to nothing-reality is somwhere in between.

I was going to say 6 foot 5 wire. I'd roll with macs suggestion. I'm not much for a livestock guy, but pay for good posts.

[BlackHelicopters]

Penetration

[ghak99]

Originally Posted by Fat Elvis

No, it's four sections. Ours and three others. The water for all four sections is on our land. One of the other sections may have a small well, but they can only get about 4-5 head in there at a time. That is probably about 800+ head of cattle that is winding up on our land when we should be looking at about 200-250 if we are supposing 3 acre/head.

Sounds to me like you should start with figuring out if you, or whoever "we" is, even own sole possession of the water source. Do the adjoining land owners have a lease or easement? Some of these were 99 year deals, some for the life of the holder, and many were even perpetual.

You mentioned rain earlier. If you're in an area of Kansas dependent upon rain, 3 head per acre might be a pipe dream. I'm assuming you own nothing, so at 3/head you're looking at over a half million in stock and probably closer to 3/4 million. If you can afford that, the fencing costs are just another check you put a pen to.

In general, you don't just start raising stock and you damn sure don't jump into buffalo without some serious growing pains. You're going to need some deep pockets as you buy your knowledge with **** ups and everything else that happens over the first 5 years of the adventure. DO NOT use current beef figures in hopes of that level being the new norm. We're at all time highs right now and that will no doubt cycle down in a few years as the system corrects itself.

Go to your local ag specialist or extension agent, he'll have the answers that pertain to your specific area.

[Baby Lee]

Ate at Ted's Montana Grill during the 5 minutes it was open out at Legends. Had the pot roast. Good meal. Don't remember much except the bio-degradeable cellulose straws for the drinks

[ghak99]

Originally Posted by mac459

I run Angus cattle and I have been redoing all my fence with Redbrand 4 point barb wire..I use 6.5 ft tall steel post and hedge posts..4 steel then 1 hedge..I put 5 strands of wire on..depending on the area I use 6 strands..like my lots keeping cattle out of neighbors fields

With bison I would probably use the same equipment but move the steel post to wood post around 3 to 1..the wood post help keep the wire from getting stretched if they push on it..Redbrand wire has really good barbs on it so if it pokes them enough it should keep them from pushing too much

I would imagine that if the bison have enough food and nothing bothering them in the fields then I can't see them pushing to get out

Oh if you have the income to do it..look into high tensile fencing..it is smooth wire but half of the wires are electric..I have heard it is really good fence..kind of a pain to first learn but once figured out it is good shit

Hope this helps

If you haven't already, take one stretch of your barb and put a single strand of high tensile in 6"-8" extended loop style holders and compare that stretch to the rest of it over the next two years. I even put these up on non owned pastures on my dime as a favor to the landowners. It saves a lot of my maintaining time and keeps thier fences in good shape and looking nice for years and years.

We built our first smooth wire over 20 years ago and people thought we were nuts when we did it but it has, by far, been the easiest and cheapest to maintain. Watching a deer run through it can be quite entertaining and the wires play a nice tune when it happens.

[Fat Elvis]

Originally Posted by Iowanian

Barbed wire rates in iowania are around $1.50/ft or near $2k/ 1/4 mile. Fencing isn't cheap. That is also a standard fencing rate and would increase if you go 6 barb and more if fence is taller or woven wire.

Relating to water I am not sure how that works in Kansas but it is my understanding that you cannot do things to remove water rights from neighbors. Example you couldn't divert or pond a stream if it took water away from downstream neighbors.


You didn't answer my question. Do you have livestock experience or does your family own land and you think it should be generating more income. Do you understand livestock and the associated work? Calving. Treatment of sickness, pinkeye, hoof rot, working them. Hay production, winter feeding etc? You have water. Is it heated or are you chopping ice every day of winter?

We figured it would be about $25K for the fencing. With regard to the water, we wouldn't be obstructing any water rights. The other three sections don't have the water. Period. That is why they are collecting rent on cattle that is never on their land and we are being overgrazed. The water doesn't run to their land. We don't have to worry about it running dry or freezing over. It was the only source of water in the area that didn't run dry during the dust bowl and it has never frozen over in the winter. It is so pure you can drink it straight from the source.

Our lack of experience with cattle is one of the reasons why we are considering bison; they are supposed to be easier to raise in terms of management. They are something that can be kept in the pasture year round. We are going to be talking to some bison ranchers in the near future around here. There are a couple of good operations nearby. After talking to them, I think we will have a better idea of whether or not this is something we want to undertake.

[Fat Elvis]

Originally Posted by ghak99

Sounds to me like you should start with figuring out if you, or whoever "we" is, even own sole possession of the water source. Do the adjoining land owners have a lease or easement? Some of these were 99 year deals, some for the life of the holder, and many were even perpetual.

You mentioned rain earlier. If you're in an area of Kansas dependent upon rain, 3 head per acre might be a pipe dream. I'm assuming you own nothing, so at 3/head you're looking at over a half million in stock and probably closer to 3/4 million. If you can afford that, the fencing costs are just another check you put a pen to.

In general, you don't just start raising stock and you damn sure don't jump into buffalo without some serious growing pains. You're going to need some deep pockets as you buy your knowledge with **** ups and everything else that happens over the first 5 years of the adventure. DO NOT use current beef figures in hopes of that level being the new norm. We're at all time highs right now and that will no doubt cycle down in a few years as the system corrects itself.

Go to your local ag specialist or extension agent, he'll have the answers that pertain to your specific area.

Thanks, good info.

[Delaney37]

First off I'd ask are set on buffalo? While I personally don't have much experience with buffalo my grandpa was experimenting with beefalo. This was back in the late 1960s. What he found out was you got the benefit of both breeds. The hardiness of a buffalo but the nice tender better cuts of meat the bovine offered. He also noticed easier calving with them as opposed to his regular red angus. You still get a leaner healthier cut of meat with beefalo that you're looking for with the buffalo. Just throwing this out there as maybe a cheaper start up alternative since your land is set up for cattle already.