Hypothetical - Two 1st rounders this year, Two 1st rounders next year

[Dante84]

Lets say a pick in the 10-15 range comes in from a team claiming Houston via the non-exclusive franchise designation, to pair with our pick at #18.

And then 2 more next year (ours + the one from J.Houston)

What two players would you pair together?

[DJ's left nut]

P.S. I believe we should have all learned a valuable lesson from Houston, one that many of us may not have thought about.

That 5th year player option for 1st round picks is incredibly valuable.

Trading from the back of the 1st into the 2nd round could be extremely damaging for you long-term. Look at it this way - we love the value that Houston gave us as a relatively cheap 3rd rounder, but if you had the chance to do it again, wouldn't you have rather have taken him in the first with Baldwin's pick? At that point the Chiefs would have him under control for about 1/2 of his franchise figure and we'd get another year to work something out.

I don't think I'd be terribly excited about moving out of the first unless I simply didn't see anyone I cared about losing; that's pretty uncommon.

[O.city]

If they want to dip into free agency, I'd rather them target the tight end market

[O.city]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

P.S. I believe we should have all learned a valuable lesson from Houston, one that many of us may not have thought about.

That 5th year player option for 1st round picks is incredibly valuable.

Trading from the back of the 1st into the 2nd round could be extremely damaging for you long-term. Look at it this way - we love the value that Houston gave us as a relatively cheap 3rd rounder, but if you had the chance to do it again, wouldn't you have rather have taken him in the first with Baldwin's pick? At that point the Chiefs would have him under control for about 1/2 of his franchise figure and we'd get another year to work something out.

I don't think I'd be terribly excited about moving out of the first unless I simply didn't see anyone I cared about losing; that's pretty uncommon.

I'm not sure but that that wasn't a reason they just took ford instead of trading bacK.

[O.city]

What's your idea or plan for houston? You may have expressed it somewhere, haven't seen it.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by O.city

Cool, thanks.

Outside the top 3 wrs, I'm probably kicking it to agholor in the 2nd and maybe hardy in the 4th.

I'm not crazy about dgb, but it is what it is.

I'd prefer bowe stay at a Lower salary as if it's true they view him as a short route only wr, he seems to perfectly fit with the current qb. If not, Maclin would be a good replacement.

Getting Maclin under the cap would require that we backload a deal like we did with Bowe and then we'll find ourselves right back here in 3 years - not interested.

Maclin is one of my favorite Tigers of all time and I'd JIMP if he were a Chief, but I know it's not a smart move.

Dorsey's philosophy of building a roster horizontally via stacking depth is perfect, IMO. It keeps you from needing to do the kind of crap we had to do in 2013. If you have depth in your system, you don't need to backload deals and burn up rolled over cap just to bring in fairly replaceable guys like DeVito. Pioli did a lot of long-term damage to this team by leaving no depth on the roster. People point to the cap space we had when he left and ignore the fact that the actual roster had so little talent that the cap space was desperately needed to even get to a .500 football team. Dorsey's approach appears to favor a 'next man up' philosophy that may take a little longer to pull off but should yield some pretty substantial benefits.

Going after Maclin and backloading another deal simply pushes off when we'll finally be healthy enough to offer deals that are structured in a manner that won't cripple us down the road. Don't be impatient - stay smart and get your financial house in order. The 2014 purge was a painful one but it was a necessary step to firming up the foundation of the team. I think he needs to do the same in 2015 and then we can start to make smart, forward thinking signings from a position of strength by 2016.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by O.city

What's your idea or plan for houston? You may have expressed it somewhere, haven't seen it.

Offer him a deal substantially similar to what Clay Matthews got but with a 10% bump for increased revenue and being a slightly better player.

You've now made him the top paid OLB in football and justifiably so. You've done so in a manner that is fair to the player and doesn't destroy the Chiefs ability to compete. You've essentially treated him the same way you treated Hali in his last negotiation and I'd say that worked out extremely well for both sides.

If he says no, you have him play out the tag (because he's bluffing; he won't sit out until week 10 - he's not made enough money to this point in his career to set $9 million on fire on general principals) and probably let him walk in 2016. I just don't know what else you can sensibly do. If you give him a deal like Mario Williams got, you'll barbecue your cap. If he would take a frontloaded deal like Watt got with monopoly money in year 6, I'd go ahead and cut Hali, Daniel and Bowe (June 1) to free up the money to make that happen. Watt's contract will be a huge benefit to the Texans from 2016-2019. The Chiefs could commit to that plan for 2015 and help themselves out immensely in trying to deal with Poe and Kelce in the coming years.

Honestly, at this point I don't think the Chiefs have a hell of a lot of say in the matter. It looks to me like Houston and his representation aren't terribly interested in finding a fit that won't also cripple the Chiefs (i.e. they're looking for that bullshit Mario Williams kind of deal) and if that's the case the Chiefs have to swallow hard and walk away.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Getting Maclin under the cap would require that we backload a deal like we did with Bowe and then we'll find ourselves right back here in 3 years - not interested.

Maclin is one of my favorite Tigers of all time and I'd JIMP if he were a Chief, but I know it's not a smart move.

Dorsey's philosophy of building a roster horizontally via stacking depth is perfect, IMO. It keeps you from needing to do the kind of crap we had to do in 2013. If you have depth in your system, you don't need to backload deals and burn up rolled over cap just to bring in fairly replaceable guys like DeVito. Pioli did a lot of long-term damage to this team by leaving no depth on the roster. People point to the cap space we had when he left and ignore the fact that the actual roster had so little talent that the cap space was desperately needed to even get to a .500 football team. Dorsey's approach appears to favor a 'next man up' philosophy that may take a little longer to pull off but should yield some pretty substantial benefits.

Going after Maclin and backloading another deal simply pushes off when we'll finally be healthy enough to offer deals that are structured in a manner that won't cripple us down the road. Don't be impatient - stay smart and get your financial house in order. The 2014 purge was a painful one but it was a necessary step to firming up the foundation of the team. I think he needs to do the same in 2015 and then we can start to make smart, forward thinking signings from a position of strength by 2016.

Only reason I'd do Maclin is if I walk away from bowe and basically use that money to bridge.

The Pioli thing is funny, because as you said, yes, cap wise we were great, but there were about 7 good players here then. Sure the caps gonna be great, there's not much here.

The problem is, at some point, theyve got to address the dreaded qb spot Right. I'm not sure how that's going to happen.

[Dark Horse]

The Chiefs need to swallow hard and pick up the phone and find a deal like the Jared Allen trade.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by O.city

Only reason I'd do Maclin is if I walk away from bowe and basically use that money to bridge.

The Pioli thing is funny, because as you said, yes, cap wise we were great, but there were about 7 good players here then. Sure the caps gonna be great, there's not much here.

The problem is, at some point, theyve got to address the dreaded qb spot Right. I'm not sure how that's going to happen.

Bowe's money will be needed elsewhere, IMO and this offense (due to both its design and Smith's strengths/weaknesses) won't ever get full value from an elite #1 WR; it's a poor use of organizational resources.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Bowe's money will be needed elsewhere, IMO and this offense (due to both its design and Smith's strengths/weaknesses) won't ever get full value from an elite #1 WR; it's a poor use of organizational resources.

I think it depends on the type of WR we are talking about.

Preferably, we'd get one of the top 3 wrs, and the guys here blossom.

But they've got to get more explosive offensively someway.

The problem here we have now, is more that were paying a shit load of money to guys who aren't producing to that level. Bowe, devito, daniel, hali etc.

I don't have a problem paying big money when you get big production. Like the cards and Holliday situation, if production follows money, it's fine.

[O.city]

In terms of that, we could simply cut those big money guus, put rookies in there, and potentially get that same production.

That being the case, I'd rather keep a guy like houston who's just hitting his prime and move those older deals.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by O.city

In terms of that, we could simply cut those big money guus, put rookies in there, and potentially get that same production.

That being the case, I'd rather keep a guy like houston who's just hitting his prime and move those older deals.

At some point you have to make a tough decision on Eric Berry.

I don't think you can responsibly leave the guy on the roster at an $8.3 million cap figure. Nobody wants to be that guy but damn, you're a team with a cap crisis and a guy that will almost certainly not play in 2015 - you can't give him $5 million out of charity.

The Chiefs can clear about $36 million in cap through cutting Bowe, Hali, Berry, DeVito, Mays and Daniel. Hali's lost a step; I think Ford can give you what Hali would have this year. Bowe's ineffective in this offense. Berry...well there's that. DeVito was slowing 2 years ago; after a knee injury and with Bailey and Howard/Walker ready to play, I think you're fine there. Mays was a massive disappointment and can be replaced via the draft fairly easily, IMO. Daniel...yeah, you'll never convince me that a $5 million backup QB is a good idea in a cap league.

That's plenty of space to go out and give Houston a JJ Watt deal - you can even frontload it and make his contract an incredible long-term asset for the Chiefs after absorbing the sting in 2015.

But both sides have to be willing to play ball.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

At some point you have to make a tough decision on Eric Berry.

I don't think you can responsibly leave the guy on the roster at an $8.3 million cap figure. Nobody wants to be that guy but damn, you're a team with a cap crisis and a guy that will almost certainly not play in 2015 - you can't give him $5 million out of charity.

The Chiefs can clear about $36 million in cap through cutting Bowe, Hali, Berry, DeVito, Mays and Daniel. Hali's lost a step; I think Ford can give you what Hali would have this year. Bowe's ineffective in this offense. Berry...well there's that. DeVito was slowing 2 years ago; after a knee injury and with Bailey and Howard/Walker ready to play, I think you're fine there. Mays was a massive disappointment and can be replaced via the draft fairly easily, IMO. Daniel...yeah, you'll never convince me that a $5 million backup QB is a good idea in a cap league.

That's plenty of space to go out and give Houston a JJ Watt deal - you can even frontload it and make his contract an incredible long-term asset for the Chiefs after absorbing the sting in 2015.

But both sides have to be willing to play ball.

Yeah, berry has to go. It sucks, but it is what it is. If Tamba wants to take a pay cut fine, if not, no.

I'd do all that. That would even give you space to go get a good young guard.

[saphojunkie]

I despised the Jared Allen trade, but we did have Tamba waiting in the wings, and it landed us our left tackle and a hall of fame running back in Charles.

I think the value on Houston is higher than Jared Allen, though. It would have to be two firsts. I'd honestly think if we can get two first round picks for Houston, you have to think long and hard about it. If it is a team like Minnesota... I'd pull the trigger.

But I have always said I am unabashedly disloyal to players. I'd also think long and hard about trading those two first rounders this year to move up for Amari Cooper. Otherwise, trade back in the first as far as we can go, picking up as many picks as we can. This team is about to need a major influx of young talent on both sides of the ball.

[Nightfyre]

Amari Cooper is not worth trading up for.