Football HOF semifinalists - Page 2

Mile High Mania · 11-19-2014, 03:11 PM

No, I'm not pimping the eligibility for anyone here. I know where you guys stand on a few.

My question is this? Kurt Warner - is he really HOF worthy? I believe he was a really good QB and I get what he did in STL and AZ, but HOF?

3 really good seasons in STL and 3 good seasons to end it in AZ.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300...ter_news_pfhof

Here's the complete list of the 26 semifinalists:
Morten Andersen
Steve Atwater
Jerome Bettis
Tim Brown
Isaac Bruce
Don Coryell
Roger Craig
Terrell Davis
Tony Dungy
Kevin Greene
Charles Haley
Marvin Harrison
Torry Holt
Joe Jacoby
Edgerrin James
Jimmy Johnson
Mike Kenn
Ty Law
John Lynch
Kevin Mawae
Karl Mecklenburg
Orlando Pace
Junior Seau
Will Shields
Kurt Warner
Darren Woodson

**Buehler445** · 11-19-2014, 05:48 PM

Tony ****ing Dungy?

Guy is a fraud of frauds. Embarrassment to the Hall that he's even on the list.

**Rain Man** · 11-19-2014, 06:09 PM

Oh, I love these HoF threads. It reminds me of when football was a real sport.

Here's how I would rank the semifinalists, so I guess by default the top five or six are the ones who SHOULD go in.

Will Shields
Kurt Warner
Kevin Greene
Morten Andersen
Joe Jacoby
Torry Holt
Orlando Pace
Isaac Bruce
Charles Haley
Karl Mecklenburg
Don Coryell
Junior Seau
Roger Craig
Marvin Harrison
Tim Brown
John Lynch
Steve Atwater
Mike Kenn
Jimmy Johnson
Darren Woodson
Kevin Mawae
Terrell Davis
Jerome Bettis
Ty Law
Edgerrin James
Tony Dungy

The first four in my opinion are complete no-brainers. Shields and Andersen are indisputably in the top five to ever play at their position. Warner has the ring, the stats, and was absolutely dominating at the peak of his career, and he's got a story that the league and fans love. And then Greene is probably quietly a top-10 to top-20 guy at his position all-time.

In the #5 spot, I think Joe Jacoby should be a no-brainer. He was easily the best offensive lineman on those Super Bowl teams and possibly the top linemen of his era aside from John Hannah. I find it bizarre that Russ Grimm is in the HoF and Joe Jacoby isn't. Jacoby was the better lineman and also played left tackle.

In the final slot, I'd be fine with any of the three Rams: Holt, Pace, or Bruce. Honestly, I find Holt and Bruce to be interchangeable. I can't pick between them.

Will Shields
Kurt Warner
Kevin Greene
Morten Andersen
Joe Jacoby
Torry Holt
Orlando Pace
Isaac Bruce
Charles Haley
Karl Mecklenburg
Don Coryell
Junior Seau
Roger Craig
Marvin Harrison
Tim Brown
John Lynch
Steve Atwater
Mike Kenn
Jimmy Johnson
Darren Woodson
Kevin Mawae
Terrell Davis
Jerome Bettis
Ty Law
Edgerrin James
Tony Dungy

Now, those are the players who SHOULD go. Who will go? Let's handicap the players.

91%+ likelihood

Kurt Warner - No way they keep Warner out. He was the engine of the Rams, has a ring, and is one of the great stories in the history of the league.

75-90% likelihood

Torry Holt - I think they put Holt in as well. He was the more flashy Ram receiver, and is a good media interview. I think he's more likeable for the media and that's the main difference between him and Isaac Bruce.

50-74% likelihood

Jerome Bettis - Very popular had has big numbers by his name. Good media interview so the sportswriters like him.

Will Shields - No one doubts that he deserves it. The voters just like left tackles, though, and they may stiff him for Pace this year like they've done every other year. But I think the odds are that this is finally the year they treat him right.

Orlando Pace - The league loves left tackles. The main thing that will hurt him is Warner and Holt also going in. He may get stiffed for that reason, but otherwise I think he's a shoo-in.

25-49% likelihood

Junior Seau - Would doubtless go in on the first ballot other than the embarrassment he caused by ... you know. The league liked him, but I don't see them letting him in on the first ballot.

Tim Brown - Meh. Whatever. He might get the votes this year since it's not a particularly deep class among first-timers.

John Lynch - Good safety, good media interview. Reporters liked him and they're the ones who vote. I don't think he's the most deserving, but I think he's got at least a 1 in 4 shot that that they'll vote him in.

Charles Haley - Not popular among sportswriters, but at some point I think they'll let him in. Maybe after he's dead, though.

10-24% likelihood

Kevin Greene - Clearly should be in already, but consider this. His longest-tenured team was the Los Angeles Rams. Is a St. Louis sportswriter going to push him at all when Warner, Holt, Pace, and Bruce are on the ballot? I'm only putting him this high because he should be much higher.

Isaac Bruce - I think Holt is more popular among sportswriters and they won't let both of them in.

Marvin Harrison - The gun thing. Maybe a couple of years down the road.

Jimmy Johnson - I think he's a legit candidate, but I don't think he'll have enough support relative to the players on the ballot.

Darren Woodson - Plays a position that's unlikely to get enough votes against the competition this year, and I think Lynch is more popular with the voters.

Don Coryell - There's a chance, I guess. But I don't think enough sportswriters will remember him.

Less than 10% likelihood

Morten Andersen - Clearly the best player ever at his position, but there's no way they'll let a kicker in on the first ballot.

Roger Craig - Bettis is a more popular pick with the writers, and Craig doesn't have killer career stats.

Joe Jacoby - Sportswriters are stupid and don't know their history.

Karl Mecklenburg - I don't think he'll get more votes than Haley and they won't put two pass rushers in. Younger sportswriters won't have enough video on him to consider him.

Steve Atwater - Lynch and Woodson will be rated higher, and it's rare to even get one safety in. And seriously, I'd take one Deron Cherry over ten of this guy. What did Cherry do to make the Hall of Fame voters hate him? Seriously, something must've happened when Cherry was pursuing ownership in the league.

Mike Kenn - He was very good, but no way he gets in over Shields and/or Pace.

Kevin Mawae - Meh. See Mike Kenn.

Terrell Davis - Didn't play long enough, product of a system.

Ty Law - Very good, but cornerbacks have to be on a different planet to get serious consideration, and that's unfair.

Edgerrin James - Huh? Edgerrin James? Really?

Tony Dungy - If he gets in, I'm leaving the NFL forever. Clearly doesn't deserve to be in this group.

KC2004 · 11-19-2014, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rico

I know for sure that I wouldn't vote for Terrell Davis... primary reason being, of course that he was part of that team that Seattle beat atrociously.

Warner...3 good seasons for the Rams, 3 good seasons for Arizona... was probably really good at bagging groceries. I dunno, 6 really good seasons for teams that were accomplished with him being at the most integral position on the field... I dunno, I don't think it would be THAT much of an atrocity if he did make it... certainly not as atrocious as the manner in which Seattle beat Denver.

If there were a grocery-bagger HOF, Warner would be a no-brainer.

Kurt Warner

Career highlights and awards

Super Bowl champion (XXXIV)
Super Bowl MVP (XXXIV)
4× Pro Bowl (1999, 2000, 2001, 2008)
2× AP First-Team All-Pro (1999, 2001)
1999 NFL MVP (AP, PFWA, NEA, SN, MX)
2001 NFL MVP (AP, NEA)
2008 NFL MVP (NEA)
3× NFC Champion (1999, 2001, 2008)
Walter Payton Man of the Year (2008)
Bart Starr Man of the Year (2009)
At least 100 TD passes for two different teams (St. Louis Rams, Arizona Cardinals)
First QB to throw 3 TD passes in each of his first 3 games
Most yards passing in a playoff campaign (1,156 in 2008)
Holds top 3 passing records for Super Bowl games
2× First Team All-Arena (1996, 1997)
Iowa Barnstormers Hall of Fame
Arena Football Hall of Fame (2011)
Arizona Cardinals Ring of Honor (2014)
GFC Player of the Year (1993)

Career NFL statistics
Pass attempts 4,070
Pass completions 2,666
Percentage 65.5
TD-INT 208–128
Passing yards 32,344
Passer rating 93.7
Stats at NFL.com

Xanathol · 11-19-2014, 07:22 PM

Any list without these guys are wrong:

Don Coryell
Kevin Mawae
Darren Woodson
Morten Andersen
Charles Haley

Prison Bitch · 11-19-2014, 07:24 PM

If you have to ask if a player is a HOFer......

Xanathol · 11-19-2014, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rain Man

Mike Kenn - He was very good, but no way he gets in over Shields and/or Pace.

Kevin Mawae - Meh. See Mike Kenn.

Pepe Silvia · 11-19-2014, 07:30 PM

I think it's time to put "The Bus" in there, what do ya think?

Pepe Silvia · 11-19-2014, 07:33 PM

Edgerrin James

No ****ing way, he was nowhere near HOF good.

**Gadzooks** · 11-19-2014, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rain Man

Junior Seau - Would doubtless go in on the first ballot other than the embarrassment he caused by ... you know. The league liked him, but I don't see them letting him in on the first ballot.

You forgot to mention that he celebrated too much and played for a rival which is the real reason why you hate him.

Calling a suicide committed by a man suffering from depression an "embarrassment" is an embarrassment on your behalf.

**cdcox** · 11-19-2014, 08:38 PM

Bettis is extremely overrated. He only had 4 years where he averaged over 4 yards a carry. He doesn't rank in the top 200 players of all time in yards per attempt.

He belongs in the Hall of Being Average for a Really Long Time for a Big Market Team and Having a Cool Nickname.

**Rain Man** · 11-19-2014, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gadzooks

You forgot to mention that he celebrated too much and played for a rival which is the real reason why you hate him.

Calling a suicide committed by a man suffering from depression an "embarrassment" is an embarrassment on your behalf.

Aim your six shooter somewhere else, podner. I'm just the guy reading the nfl telegraph key as it tap tap taps the message.

**Gadzooks** · 11-19-2014, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rain Man

Aim your six shooter somewhere else, podner. I'm just the guy reading the nfl telegraph key as it tap tap taps the message.

Good day sir... I said "good day"!

Deberg_1990 · 11-19-2014, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mile High Mania

Yeah, there's a lot of good ones on the list.

I just look at Warner as a guy that had 6 really good years, with 5 years of nothing really in between. Nice guy, great story, has really elevated his legend since retirement. I guess that's the name of the game now.

Yea, I don't think he's deserving, but he probably gets in eventually because of his media connections

Dayze · 11-19-2014, 09:06 PM

Kevin Greene should've been in long long ago

Rams Fan · 11-19-2014, 09:09 PM

Warner and Pace should be in immediately, as should Bruce. But if Bruce doesn't make it due to the the logjam with WRs, I'd be fine with him making it in a few years.

I like Holt, but I don't think he is HoF caliber.

11-19-2014, 03:11 PM
Mile High Mania #triggering Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Tejas Casino cash: $3707229	HOF semifinalists No, I'm not pimping the eligibility for anyone here. I know where you guys stand on a few. My question is this? Kurt Warner - is he really HOF worthy? I believe he was a really good QB and I get what he did in STL and AZ, but HOF? 3 really good seasons in STL and 3 good seasons to end it in AZ. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300...ter_news_pfhof Here's the complete list of the 26 semifinalists: Morten Andersen Steve Atwater Jerome Bettis Tim Brown Isaac Bruce Don Coryell Roger Craig Terrell Davis Tony Dungy Kevin Greene Charles Haley Marvin Harrison Torry Holt Joe Jacoby Edgerrin James Jimmy Johnson Mike Kenn Ty Law John Lynch Kevin Mawae Karl Mecklenburg Orlando Pace Junior Seau Will Shields Kurt Warner Darren Woodson
Posts: 30,258

11-19-2014, 05:48 PM	#16
Buehler445 Supporter Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Scott City KS Casino cash: $2344734	Tony ****ing Dungy? Guy is a fraud of frauds. Embarrassment to the Hall that he's even on the list.
Posts: 56,768

11-19-2014, 06:09 PM	#17
Rain Man NFL's #1 Ermines Fan Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: My house Casino cash: $3348491 VARSITY	Oh, I love these HoF threads. It reminds me of when football was a real sport. Here's how I would rank the semifinalists, so I guess by default the top five or six are the ones who SHOULD go in. Will Shields Kurt Warner Kevin Greene Morten Andersen Joe Jacoby Torry Holt Orlando Pace Isaac Bruce Charles Haley Karl Mecklenburg Don Coryell Junior Seau Roger Craig Marvin Harrison Tim Brown John Lynch Steve Atwater Mike Kenn Jimmy Johnson Darren Woodson Kevin Mawae Terrell Davis Jerome Bettis Ty Law Edgerrin James Tony Dungy The first four in my opinion are complete no-brainers. Shields and Andersen are indisputably in the top five to ever play at their position. Warner has the ring, the stats, and was absolutely dominating at the peak of his career, and he's got a story that the league and fans love. And then Greene is probably quietly a top-10 to top-20 guy at his position all-time. In the #5 spot, I think Joe Jacoby should be a no-brainer. He was easily the best offensive lineman on those Super Bowl teams and possibly the top linemen of his era aside from John Hannah. I find it bizarre that Russ Grimm is in the HoF and Joe Jacoby isn't. Jacoby was the better lineman and also played left tackle. In the final slot, I'd be fine with any of the three Rams: Holt, Pace, or Bruce. Honestly, I find Holt and Bruce to be interchangeable. I can't pick between them. Will Shields Kurt Warner Kevin Greene Morten Andersen Joe Jacoby Torry Holt Orlando Pace Isaac Bruce Charles Haley Karl Mecklenburg Don Coryell Junior Seau Roger Craig Marvin Harrison Tim Brown John Lynch Steve Atwater Mike Kenn Jimmy Johnson Darren Woodson Kevin Mawae Terrell Davis Jerome Bettis Ty Law Edgerrin James Tony Dungy Now, those are the players who SHOULD go. Who will go? Let's handicap the players. 91%+ likelihood Kurt Warner - No way they keep Warner out. He was the engine of the Rams, has a ring, and is one of the great stories in the history of the league. 75-90% likelihood Torry Holt - I think they put Holt in as well. He was the more flashy Ram receiver, and is a good media interview. I think he's more likeable for the media and that's the main difference between him and Isaac Bruce. 50-74% likelihood Jerome Bettis - Very popular had has big numbers by his name. Good media interview so the sportswriters like him. Will Shields - No one doubts that he deserves it. The voters just like left tackles, though, and they may stiff him for Pace this year like they've done every other year. But I think the odds are that this is finally the year they treat him right. Orlando Pace - The league loves left tackles. The main thing that will hurt him is Warner and Holt also going in. He may get stiffed for that reason, but otherwise I think he's a shoo-in. 25-49% likelihood Junior Seau - Would doubtless go in on the first ballot other than the embarrassment he caused by ... you know. The league liked him, but I don't see them letting him in on the first ballot. Tim Brown - Meh. Whatever. He might get the votes this year since it's not a particularly deep class among first-timers. John Lynch - Good safety, good media interview. Reporters liked him and they're the ones who vote. I don't think he's the most deserving, but I think he's got at least a 1 in 4 shot that that they'll vote him in. Charles Haley - Not popular among sportswriters, but at some point I think they'll let him in. Maybe after he's dead, though. 10-24% likelihood Kevin Greene - Clearly should be in already, but consider this. His longest-tenured team was the Los Angeles Rams. Is a St. Louis sportswriter going to push him at all when Warner, Holt, Pace, and Bruce are on the ballot? I'm only putting him this high because he should be much higher. Isaac Bruce - I think Holt is more popular among sportswriters and they won't let both of them in. Marvin Harrison - The gun thing. Maybe a couple of years down the road. Jimmy Johnson - I think he's a legit candidate, but I don't think he'll have enough support relative to the players on the ballot. Darren Woodson - Plays a position that's unlikely to get enough votes against the competition this year, and I think Lynch is more popular with the voters. Don Coryell - There's a chance, I guess. But I don't think enough sportswriters will remember him. Less than 10% likelihood Morten Andersen - Clearly the best player ever at his position, but there's no way they'll let a kicker in on the first ballot. Roger Craig - Bettis is a more popular pick with the writers, and Craig doesn't have killer career stats. Joe Jacoby - Sportswriters are stupid and don't know their history. Karl Mecklenburg - I don't think he'll get more votes than Haley and they won't put two pass rushers in. Younger sportswriters won't have enough video on him to consider him. Steve Atwater - Lynch and Woodson will be rated higher, and it's rare to even get one safety in. And seriously, I'd take one Deron Cherry over ten of this guy. What did Cherry do to make the Hall of Fame voters hate him? Seriously, something must've happened when Cherry was pursuing ownership in the league. Mike Kenn - He was very good, but no way he gets in over Shields and/or Pace. Kevin Mawae - Meh. See Mike Kenn. Terrell Davis - Didn't play long enough, product of a system. Ty Law - Very good, but cornerbacks have to be on a different planet to get serious consideration, and that's unfair. Edgerrin James - Huh? Edgerrin James? Really? Tony Dungy - If he gets in, I'm leaving the NFL forever. Clearly doesn't deserve to be in this group. __________________ I'm putting random letters here as a celebration of free speech: xigrakgrah misorojeq rkemeseit. Last edited by Rain Man; 11-19-2014 at 06:15 PM..
Posts: 141,251

11-19-2014, 07:22 PM	#19
Xanathol Starter Join Date: Mar 2011 Casino cash: $9528791	Any list without these guys are wrong: Don Coryell Kevin Mawae Darren Woodson Morten Andersen Charles Haley
Posts: 689

11-19-2014, 07:24 PM	#20
Prison Bitch Rabbi Goldmann Join Date: Nov 2012 Casino cash: $5450159	If you have to ask if a player is a HOFer......
Posts: 87,025

11-19-2014, 07:30 PM	#22
Pepe Silvia MVP Join Date: Oct 2012 Casino cash: $1934664	I think it's time to put "The Bus" in there, what do ya think?
Posts: 16,557

11-19-2014, 07:33 PM	#23
Pepe Silvia MVP Join Date: Oct 2012 Casino cash: $1934664	Edgerrin James No ****ing way, he was nowhere near HOF good.
Posts: 16,557

11-19-2014, 08:38 PM	#25
cdcox www.nfl-forecast.com Join Date: Sep 2000 Casino cash: $2361769	Bettis is extremely overrated. He only had 4 years where he averaged over 4 yards a carry. He doesn't rank in the top 200 players of all time in yards per attempt. He belongs in the Hall of Being Average for a Really Long Time for a Big Market Team and Having a Cool Nickname.
Posts: 45,536

11-19-2014, 09:06 PM	#29
Dayze Resident Glue Sniffer Join Date: Nov 2003 Casino cash: $5199358	Kevin Greene should've been in long long ago __________________ Life is 99% inspiration, 1% Perspiration, and 1% Attention to Detial. RIP & Godspeed: Saccoppo Lonewolf Ed Fire Me Boy
Posts: 37,358

11-19-2014, 09:09 PM	#30
Rams Fan Greatest QB Duo of 2015 Join Date: Mar 2010 Casino cash: $2601133	Warner and Pace should be in immediately, as should Bruce. But if Bruce doesn't make it due to the the logjam with WRs, I'd be fine with him making it in a few years. I like Holt, but I don't think he is HoF caliber.
Posts: 17,070