HEY SORTER!! (and SULLY)

[Dinny Bossa Nova]

Is there any way you guys can learn us some football?

I respect, admire and am totally green with envy y'all's knowledge of football defenses and offenses and the structuring of the plays and such.

My personal playing experience pinnacle is the sandlot with neighborhood kids where the greatest play ever called was "EVERYBODY GO OUT FOR A PASS!!!!"

I am the epitome of the armchair fan watching a game that has no idea what he is looking at. But I still dig the hell out of it.

I'm too old and creepy to attend a football for girls class, so is there anywhere to get started like a football for dummies path to follow?

The Jets playbook is kind of useless to me at this point. I'm looking for the cue-cards being held a little lower.

You guys could probably organize some seminars and get tons of us mopes here to sign up. I'd like to sit in the front row.

Enlighten us, wise ones, please.

Dinny

[SAUTO]

Originally Posted by Easy 6

Pretty damn cool thread, I knew Sorter was a guru but didnt know Sully understood the game to this level... I'm learning a lot from this, great idea Dinny.

I know what a "good football player" looks like, but this is upper deck player/coach level information that I've never understood at all really, many thanks to all involved.

This thing should be stickied.

Seconded, great ****ing idea dinny.

Thanks to sully and sorter for the lessons

[Sully]

So I've been exploring the playbook site that the Jets pb came from (because I'm a playbook nerd).

For a ton of the questions you have, the Baylor 2006 defense is very good at explaining the terminology (although there are a ton of typos... because Baylor).

The first few pages discuss alignment, numbering, coverages and names of formations.
This is all good stuff. When you get to the names of formations, just understand that there are a million different names for each formation. For instance, what the Chiefs calls SLOT, I call Twins, and Baylor calls Twins I.

http://www.footballxos.com/download/...42-Defense.pdf

[O.city]

So, figured with this week and our opponent this would be a good place to talk about defending the read option.

[Sully]

Originally Posted by O.city

So, figured with this week and our opponent this would be a good place to talk about defending the read option.

I only know what I've run, and what I've heard at clinics (from college coaches).

The key, usually, is the backside DE. Typically that's who the QB is reading (Eric Hicks is so glad he doesn't play against the RO). If the backside DE can squeeze space, but also stay squared, he's got a chance.

Otherwise...

One school of thought , and what I've run, is "Rock and Roll." Your D-Linemen play as if they were playing any zone run (rock), keeping their gap and playing down the line. The difference is that the LBers actually play back a gap (roll), screwing with the read, and putting them in position for the misdirectiscrew
The other thing I've heard, and it makes sense, but I hate it, came from the DLine coach at SMU (also why I thought that DE from there a couple years ago would bust). They teach their D Linemen, on a zone block, to allow themselves to be overtaken, essentially playing back a gap, and let the LBers run to the next gap. This way there's no concern with a DL overrunning a play. I hate that, because I think you teach your DL to be less aggressive with that. LBers are better athletes, and are standing up... Let them be athletes. Let the DL just play their spot. (I also teach my LBers to slow play flow outside, anyway, because I want their pursuit to be inside out.)

DL twists can also screw up the read, but you can't run them all the time as you put your players in low power situations vs OLinemen.


Now, I'll say again... These are HS and college answers. With the speed of the pro players, I doubt they have any special scheme against it, other than, "be aware they do this, and don't get sucked in on the backside." I had the most athletic team I've ever coached, this year, and I don't think I spent more than 5 minutes a week discussing it with them, and we never gave up yardage against it. (Moral: great players make coaches look wicked smaht!)
I wouldn't be surprised to see a few more safety blitzes this week, however.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by Sully

I only know what I've run, and what I've heard at clinics (from college coaches).

The key, usually, is the backside DE. Typically that's who the QB is reading (Eric Hicks is so glad he doesn't play against the RO). If the backside DE can squeeze space, but also stay squared, he's got a chance.

Otherwise...

One school of thought , and what I've run, is "Rock and Roll." Your D-Linemen play as if they were playing any zone run (rock), keeping their gap and playing down the line. The difference is that the LBers actually play back a gap (roll), screwing with the read, and putting them in position for the misdirectiscrew
The other thing I've heard, and it makes sense, but I hate it, came from the DLine coach at SMU (also why I thought that DE from there a couple years ago would bust). They teach their D Linemen, on a zone block, to allow themselves to be overtaken, essentially playing back a gap, and let the LBers run to the next gap. This way there's no concern with a DL overrunning a play. I hate that, because I think you teach your DL to be less aggressive with that. LBers are better athletes, and are standing up... Let them be athletes. Let the DL just play their spot. (I also teach my LBers to slow play flow outside, anyway, because I want their pursuit to be inside out.)

DL twists can also screw up the read, but you can't run them all the time as you put your players in low power situations vs OLinemen.


Now, I'll say again... These are HS and college answers. With the speed of the pro players, I doubt they have any special scheme against it, other than, "be aware they do this, and don't get sucked in on the backside." I had the most athletic team I've ever coached, this year, and I don't think I spent more than 5 minutes a week discussing it with them, and we never gave up yardage against it. (Moral: great players make coaches look wicked smaht!)
I wouldn't be surprised to see a few more safety blitzes this week, however.

Cool thanks.

We were always taught to slow play it, the DE and LB's that is, not me. I don't like that technique you described from SMU in that by doing that it creates a lot of trash for Lbs to scrape thru.

Seems discipline a the best way to combat it.

[Sully]

Also, even though they usually read the backside DE, I've listened to coaches who've read every player on the front 7 at one time or another. (When you read a player, you leave him unblocked)

[O.city]

We always brought a safety down against teams who were heavy RO teams for that matter and myself being a safety, hated it as the team that ran it in our district, did so with a back that had me by about 30 pounds.

I'm assuming that's why you were referencing with the safety blitz?

[O.city]

Originally Posted by Sully

Also, even though they usually read the backside DE, I've listened to coaches who've read every player on the front 7 at one time or another. (When you read a player, you leave him unblocked)

I've hear urban Meyer (sp?) talk about it.

A lot of guys at th high school level like to have the best dl be the read player. Let them determine what you do, to an extent

[Sorter]

There are plenty of ways to attack the single high safety coverages the Seahawks love. One concept that Peyton Manning victimized the Seachickens (and Rivers the next week to Jacksonville) on their final drive to send the game to OT caught my eye.

Apologies, there's a ton of pictures.



Donks come out in Empty with Posse (3W1TE1RB). Sherman lines up on Welker, Ball is split wide RT matched up with a LB. Hawks showing 2 deep shell.


Earl Thomas robs, Chancellor responsible for MOF. Both the corners on the boundary side have outside leverage.


Here's where things get fun. Sanders breaks on an out while D. Thomas continues to stretch vertically. Chancellor starts to match.


Zoink! Sanders now on top of the DB and pushing vertical towards the sideline. D. Thomas has now stretched his corner and the safety towards the MOF and away from Sanders, leaving a nice open space. Pass is incomplete but Peyton goes back to it the next play.



Same alignment and personnel from our hoofed friends. Seahawks now align in press (Sherman the exception) with a 2 deep shell.


They be playing that Cover 3 though! Tricky gulls. Once again, Pete Carroll has inexplicably decided to have Bernard Pollard 2.0 as their deep MOF player while Earl Thomas is resorted to playing like 2013 Eric Berry.


Ermahgerhd, deh damn Donks did it agerhn! Sanders runs his out and up while Thomas again draws not only Chancellor and his 1/3 player but Earl "Best Safety Eva" Thomas as well.


Results in completion.


We fast foward the Donks TD. Does Peyton Manning try something new or will he have Jacob ****ing Tamme look like Jason Witten?


If you guessed the latter, congratulations! The Donks once again align empty with trips to the field only Jacob Tamme, destroyer of worlds, is aligned where E. Sanders previously was. Seahawks again show 2 deep shell.


Tamme runs the out and up, Thomas draws 3 players, and Mike Mayock is pounding the table.


Ouch.

Touchdown

The very next week, the Chargers played Jacksonville. Similar defense, not similar players but Phillip Rivers liked what he saw.


Chargers line up with trips to the field and have Gates remain as a blocker. Jags roll a safety down to the field and send the nickel from the field as pressure. Boundary safety is now MOF player.


Chargers run the same concept, safety helps with the deepest vertical threat, and Eddie Royal creates a burn victim.

[Dinny Bossa Nova]

My computer puked a couple of weeks ago. I am ordering parts 'til who laid the chunk trying to bring it back to life.

I am randomly able to access the internet intermittently so I intend to eventually at some point in the hopefully not too distant future get busy with this here thread.

Thank you so ****ing much to Sorter & Sully for the 411 and patience.

Dinny

[Easy 6]

Originally Posted by Dinny Blues

My computer puked a couple of weeks ago. I am ordering parts 'til who laid the chunk trying to bring it back to life.

I am randomly able to access the internet intermittently so I intend to eventually at some point in the hopefully not too distant future get busy with this here thread.

Thank you so ****ing much to Sorter & Sully for the 411 and patience.

Dinny

I'm with you, Dinny... some insidious force has overtaken my laptop and there doesnt seem to be damn thing I can do about it, in the meantime its great to know what a "robber" is.

Its a safety that lurks the underneath zones jumping whats in front of him?... I swear, it all usually made intuitive sense on Madden, seeing the basic schematic based on the offense you think I'd was coming up... but seeing it laid out like that gives it a foundation to build on.

I'M GONNA RULE MADDEN THANKS TO SORTER AND SULLY.

[Direckshun]

That last post was excellent, Sorter.

[John Dope]

You guys really think he just comes up with this shit himself? He's a total fraud and is full of shit. Sorter is the king of plagiarism. Just google "vertical switch release." He could have just posted some links.

http://www.si.com/nfl/2014/09/23/all...os-final-drive

3-3-6

[Direckshun]

Originally Posted by John Dope

You guys really think he just comes up with this shit himself? He's a total fraud and is full of shit. Sorter is the king of plagiarism. Just google "vertical switch release." He could have just posted some links.

http://www.si.com/nfl/2014/09/23/all...os-final-drive

3-3-6

He's got a point!

[John Dope]

People just lap it up. It's pretty sad.