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Old 08-07-2018, 08:38 AM  
Loneiguana Loneiguana is offline
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Bankruptcy Booms Among Older Americans

Thoughts and Prayers Boomers. You made this bed.

‘Too Little Too Late’: Bankruptcy Booms Among Older Americans

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For a rapidly growing share of older Americans, traditional ideas about life in retirement are being upended by a dismal reality: bankruptcy.

The signs of potential trouble — vanishing pensions, soaring medical expenses, inadequate savings — have been building for years. Now, new research sheds light on the scope of the problem: The rate of people 65 and older filing for bankruptcy is three times what it was in 1991, the study found, and the same group accounts for a far greater share of all filers.

Driving the surge, the study suggests, is a three-decade shift of financial risk from government and employers to individuals, who are bearing an ever-greater responsibility for their own financial well-being as the social safety net shrinks.

The transfer has come in the form of, among other things, longer waits for full Social Security benefits, the replacement of employer-provided pensions with 401(k) savings plans and more out-of-pocket spending on health care. Declining incomes, whether in retirement or leading up to it, compound the challenge.

....

As the study, from the Consumer Bankruptcy Project, explains, older people whose finances are precarious have few places to turn. “When the costs of aging are off-loaded onto a population that simply does not have access to adequate resources, something has to give,” the study says, “and older Americans turn to what little is left of the social safety net — bankruptcy court.”

“You can manage O.K. until there is a little stumble,” said Deborah Thorne, an associate professor of sociology at the University of Idaho and an author of the study. “It doesn’t even take a big thing.”

The data gathered by the researchers is stark. From February 2013 to November 2016, there were 3.6 bankruptcy filers per 1,000 people 65 to 74; in 1991, there were 1.2.

Not only are more older people seeking relief through bankruptcy, but they also represent a widening slice of all filers: 12.2 percent of filers are now 65 or older, up from 2.1 percent in 1991.

The jump is so pronounced, the study says, that the aging of the baby boom generation cannot explain it.

Although the actual number of older people filing for bankruptcy was relatively small — about 100,000 a year during the period in question — the researchers said it signaled that there were many more people in financial distress.

....

The study does not delve into those underlying factors, but separate data provides some insight. The median household led by someone 65 or older had liquid savings of $60,600 in 2016, according to the Employee Benefit Research Institute, whereas the bottom 25 percent of households had saved at most $3,260.

That doesn’t provide much of a financial cushion for a catastrophic health problem. Older Americans typically turn to Medicare to pay their medical bills. But gaps in coverage, high premiums and requirements that patients shoulder some costs force many lower-income beneficiaries to spend more of their own income on those bills, the Kaiser Family Foundation found.

By 2013, the average Medicare beneficiary’s out-of-pocket spending on health care consumed 41 percent of the average Social Security check, according to Kaiser, which also estimated that the figure would rise.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/05/b....nav=top-news&

Maybe another round of tax cuts for the top percent while we cut social security and medicare will do the trick!

Great thing they convinced you boomer to give up unions and pensions.

Good luck boomers! Pull yourself up by the bootstraps, get some training, and go support yourselves.
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Old 08-07-2018, 01:39 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by HonestChieffan View Post
My portfolio hit all time high this am. Sorry shitty basement boy.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ too.

If you don't have a portfolio, you never really wanted to live well after retirement.
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Old 08-07-2018, 01:40 PM   #62
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I had a hell of a battle getting my wife to contribute a significant amount to hers. She just didn't get it (and probably still doesn't - but agreed so I would quit hassling her).
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Old 08-07-2018, 01:41 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by GloryDayz View Post
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ too.

If you don't have a portfolio, you never really wanted to live well after retirement.
Yep
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Old 08-07-2018, 01:42 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by loochy View Post
I had a hell of a battle getting my wife to contribute a significant amount to hers. She just didn't get it (and probably still doesn't - but agreed so I would quit hassling her).
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Just hit her and she will get it
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Old 08-07-2018, 01:43 PM   #65
GloryDayz GloryDayz is offline
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Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
401k were never a viable replacement for a pension. The vast majority of us have no idea what our expenses will be in our senior years (medical costs say hello) and no one is taking out the 15 percent every paycheck needed to even get close to making it last.
They are both viable and 15% to the 401K is very doable if you start young, then you add 5-10% more for other investments.

You just don't live beyond your means.
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Old 08-07-2018, 01:45 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by loochy View Post
Nothing really. If I end up taking disability I get 60% of my current pay, benefits, and 401k contributions continue through age 65, albiet at a smaller rate. If I take a shorter term FMLA to get through treatment then nothing happens at all. There's no cancer penalty to the 401k that I don't know about, right? I have enough in savings to cover quite a few years of my insurance's out of pocket max.


I have no idea. You tell me.


No, because I don't know about your pension.
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The difference is my pension will never disappear because of medical emergencies or unexpected expenses. If I get tens of thousands of dollars in medical debt, there is zero possible way for me to access the principal thus decreasing my pension amount.

Where do you think the first place people turn to is when they have crushing medical debt in old age? (Read the article)

That people think the couple hundred thousand in a 401k is a bulwark against what is the major medical expense of old age is sad. Its the reason why we have articles like this one on the bankruptcy trend in seniors.
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Old 08-07-2018, 01:46 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
The difference is my pension will never disappear because of medical emergencies or unexpected expenses. If I get tens of thousands of dollars in medical debt, there is zero possible way for me to access the principal thus decreasing my pension amount.

Where do you think the first place people turn to is when they have crushing medical debt in old age? (Read the article)

That people think the couple hundred thousand in a 401k is a bulwark against what is the major medical expense of old age is sad. Its the reason why we have articles like this one on the bankruptcy trend in seniors.
.0036 is not a trend
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Old 08-07-2018, 01:48 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by DJJasonp View Post
Several have mentioned "personal responsibility" in this thread.

While I'm all for that, a related problem is the fact that personal finance is not taught at the high school level.

Personal finance should be part of the required curriculum in high school (IMHO)
Surely you don't think the day we graduate high school is the day we get to finally stop learning?
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Old 08-07-2018, 01:49 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
The difference is my pension will never disappear because of medical emergencies or unexpected expenses. If I get tens of thousands of dollars in medical debt, there is zero possible way for me to access the principal thus decreasing my pension amount.

Where do you think the first place people turn to is when they have crushing medical debt in old age? (Read the article)

That people think the couple hundred thousand in a 401k is a bulwark against what is the major medical expense of old age is sad. Its the reason why we have articles like this one on the bankruptcy trend in seniors.
You are just not real bright are you? To think that you may actually think in this manner is pathetic.
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Old 08-07-2018, 01:53 PM   #70
ptlyon ptlyon is offline
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Originally Posted by GloryDayz View Post
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ too.

If you don't have a portfolio, you never really wanted to live well after retirement.
I just don't like carrying one around
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Old 08-07-2018, 01:54 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post

That people think the couple hundred thousand in a 401k is a bulwark against what is the major medical expense of old age is sad. Its the reason why we have articles like this one on the bankruptcy trend in seniors.
Well yeah, there's problem #1. That's not enough. Would I LIKE to have a guaranteed pension? Sure! Is one available to me? Not at this job. They cut them 2 years before I got here.
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Old 08-07-2018, 01:57 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJJasonp View Post
Several have mentioned "personal responsibility" in this thread.

While I'm all for that, a related problem is the fact that personal finance is not taught at the high school level.

Personal finance should be part of the required curriculum in high school (IMHO)
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Old 08-07-2018, 01:59 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by GloryDayz View Post
They are both viable and 15% to the 401K is very doable if you start young, then you add 5-10% more for other investments.

You just don't live beyond your means.
Does no one math?

If, and this is a big IF, you can contribute a full $1,000 a month (15 percent of around 6700 or $80,000ish a year ) into a 401K, that's 12,000 a year. Times 30 years is $360,000. Yes, this isn't taken into account earnings off that money in the market.

So, what double it? Triple it? Let's triple it. Let's say the market did great over that 30 years with zero down turns. Make it an even million.

You have a million dollars in a 401k. Great, right?

Never touch it. Ever. EVER. With a modest return of 5 percent, you'll get $50,000 in today's money a year. Not that 80,000 you were making before, but alright, especially if you pay your house off before you retire.

But wait, the average 65 year old couple who retired in 2015 is projected to need $276,000 just to cover their medical expenses for the reminder of their lifetime. Can you pay that off with say 50k a year? (I means, that's only 6 times the amount you are getting). Better have the house paid off and no other sudden expenses.

Man, seems difficult, even if you are lucky enough to retire with a cool million in the 401k. Wonder how many people actually do that.

Quote:
According to data from Fidelity, here’s the average breakdown by age:

Ages 20 – 29: $9,900

Ages 30 – 39: $38,400

Ages 40 – 49: $91,000

Ages 50 – 59: $152,700

Ages 60 – 69: $167,700

Ages 70 – 79: $160,200
Oh, damn. Yeah, seniors a fudged.
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Old 08-07-2018, 02:03 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
Does no one math?

If, and this is a big IF, you can contribute a full $1,000 a month (15 percent of around 6700 or $80,000ish a year ) into a 401K, that's 12,000 a year. Times 30 years is $360,000. Yes, this isn't taken into account earnings off that money in the market.

So, what double it? Triple it? Let's triple it. Let's say the market did great over that 30 years with zero down turns. Make it an even million.

You have a million dollars in a 401k. Great, right?

Never touch it. Ever. EVER. With a modest return of 5 percent, you'll get $50,000 in today's money a year. Not that 80,000 you were making before, but alright, especially if you pay your house off before you retire.

But wait, the average 65 year old couple who retired in 2015 is projected to need $276,000 just to cover their medical expenses for the reminder of their lifetime. Can you pay that off with say 50k a year? (I means, that's only 6 times the amount you are getting). Better have the house paid off and no other sudden expenses.

Man, seems difficult, even if you are lucky enough to retire with a cool million in the 401k. Wonder how many people actually do that.



Oh, damn. Yeah, seniors a fudged.

Avg 65+ has 200K net worth
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Old 08-07-2018, 02:04 PM   #75
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Avg 65+ has 200K net worth
Moral of the story, don't be average.
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