Cardinals ****Official 2014 STL Cardinals thread **** - Page 153

**BigRedChief** · 02:36 PM

2011 WS Championship
2012 one win from another WS
2013 two wins from another WS title
2014?

This is a franchise that has made the postseason 10 times in the last 14 seasons.
Reached three World Series in the last decade, and won as many championships (two) the past eight seasons as it did from 1965 to 2005.
Our new Manager has more post season experience than any other manager in baseball, except the Giants manager.
Three million attendance? Take it to the bank.
60 post season wins since 2004. 20+ wins more than any other team.
Only one of the last 14 seasons has been a losing one.

Marcellus · 07-30-2014, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Really like the Masterson deal. Ramsey looks promising, but everyone puts up huge numbers in AA except for Kozma. The loss in velocity is worrisome, but they just need someone to chew innings. Glad that Mozeliak wasn't duped into giving up the farm for a rental of Price or Molester.

I was worried we were going to sell the farm for Price, while we still cant hit.

**BigRedChief** · 07-30-2014, 06:46 PM

National writers are starting to call out Matheny on his use of Jay and Craig over everyone else on the bench. Bourjas and OT in the line up tonight.... coincidence???

CBSSPORTS.COM article

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/eye-on-...-work-for-them

Coming into the 2014 season, the Cardinals were poised to benefit from a deep and useful outfield corps. Almost four months into the current campaign, that corps is indeed deep -- inasmuch as a lot of usable outfielders are on the active roster -- but it hasn't been especially useful.
Wednesday's deal for Justin Masterson reflected that depth, in that minor-league fly-catcher James Ramsey was sent to the Indians in return. However, the glut of outfielders at the big-league level is still in place, and that may be a problem for the Cardinals. If, post-Masterson, they're done dealing from that particular pool, then Mike Matheny is going to need to correct what to date has been faulty deployment of his outfield resources.
Specifically, Matheny is all too attached to Jon Jay. Jay, as laid bare last postseason and readily apparent long before that, is not a defensively adequate center fielder. One look at his circuitous and confused routes on fly balls will tell you that much. Those defensive shortcomings become even more of a problem once you consider that whoever's manning center for the Cards is typically flanked by the range-challenged likes of Matt Holliday and Allen Craig.

What Matheny and the Cardinals should be doing is starting Peter Bourjos in center as often as possible. Bourjos is a better base-runner than Jay, and he's a vastly better defender -- one of the best defensive center fielders in baseball on a rate basis, in fact. Jay is outhitting Bourjos this season, but bear in mind that Bourjos has a career Weighted Runs Created+ (wRC+) of 94, which means he's hardly a complete sinkhole at the plate, especially by up-the-middle standards.

Moving forward, the ZiPS forecasting system tabs Bourjos to bat .250/.307/.404 over the remainder of 2014, while Jay is projected for a line of .276/.341/.373. Thanks to Jay's OBP-skewed line, you can argue he's the (very modestly) better hitter in the near-term, but Bourjos' substantial advantages in the other phases of the game easily make him the more valuable contributor. As well, there's the very plausible notion that Bourjos would hit more in line with expectations if Matheny would ever give him consistent playing time (Bourjos has made just two starts this month, and he's averaging just 2.7 plate appearances per game played).

Speaking of inconsistent playing time, we have phenom Oscar Taveras. Taveras, since his "creation myth" home run on May 31, has struggled badly and even wound up back in Triple-A for a spell. He's one of the top hitting prospects in all of baseball, but even the highly regarded require an adjustment period. On top of that, Taveras is playing erratically. It's hard enough transitioning to the highest level as a ballyhooed 22-year-old; start-and-stop duty doesn't help matters. It suggests a lack of confidence on the part of management, and it prevents Taveras from being able to learn and adjust with any sense of rhythm. One could easily argue that his future and present would be better served by being back in Memphis.
It's also worth noting that Taveras' part-time status is in deference to Craig, who looks adrift at the plate (he's helpless against breaking stuff off the plate these days) and seems to have lost his ability to drive the ball. Craig's raw power numbers have been methodically declining since his standout 2011-12 seasons, and here's what's become of the right-handed Craig this season ...

Source: FanGraphsThis looks like a player who has completely lost his pull-field power. In fact, this season Craig is slugging just .294 on pulled balls, and when he pulls the ball he's lugging around an unthinkable groundball/fly-ball ratio of 13.5 (!). Maybe it's mechanical, but something's off with Craig and has been for some time. So in essence Taveras is mostly sitting around so as to apprentice under a one-dimensional outfielder who has lost his power.

One could of course argue that Taveras and Bourjos wouldn't hit even if granted regular duty, but we can't know that. We can't know that because Matheny seems to prefer a demonstrably inferior player to Bourjos and a declining player with limited upside to Taveras. Excessive pine time for players who are accustomed to being fixtures in the lineup exacts a price on their ability to play their way into regular duty.

You see, depth is good, except when it isn't. If the Masterson trade was GM John Mozeliak's last major move before Thursday's non-waiver deadline, then that "problematic" outfield depth will remain in place. At that point, it's on Matheny to rethink his decisions.

Marcellus · 07-30-2014, 06:50 PM

Stating the obvious to anyone but Matheny.

**BigRedChief** · 07-30-2014, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcellus

Stating the obvious to anyone but Matheny.

No shit.

Jewish Rabbi · 07-30-2014, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

No shit.

What's that CP Varsity thing? I only see it on you and Rain Man.

**BigRedChief** · 07-30-2014, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jewish Rabbi

What's that CP Varsity thing? I only see it on you and Rain Man.

It proves we are more special than you. Why do you ask?

Jewish Rabbi · 07-30-2014, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

It proves we are more special than you. Why do you ask?

Most people are. I was just curious. First real "change" I've noticed on the site in a while.

**BigRedChief** · 07-30-2014, 08:37 PM

Left handlers are hitting .444 against Kelly when they hit the ball in the middle of the field. Stat courtesy of the Padres broadcasters.

kcpasco · 07-30-2014, 08:41 PM

Looks like another putrid offensive performance. I'm not staying up to watch this shitfest.

**TrebMaxx** · 07-30-2014, 09:04 PM

Defense is putrid as well! That was just Wong!!

Jewish Rabbi · 07-30-2014, 09:56 PM

Can't wait for this train wreck of a season to be over so we can watch Mizzou and the Chiefs struggle to get 6 wins, and Kim Anderson to go 13-16.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 07-30-2014, 10:57 PM

This is the worst Cardinal team of this century. The 2007 team was better than this.

ShowtimeSBMVP · 07-31-2014, 10:27 AM

Red Sox Close To Trading Lackey To Cardinals Or*Dodgers http://t.co/yhp21mYLBj
— MLB Trade Rumors (@mlbtraderumors) July 31, 2014

ShowtimeSBMVP · 07-31-2014, 10:34 AM

Cards getting lackey
— Jon Heyman (@JonHeymanCBS) July 31, 2014

Marco Polo · 07-31-2014, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiefsandO'sfan

Cards getting lackey
— Jon Heyman (@JonHeymanCBS) July 31, 2014

For whom? We better not have given up the farm for this. Isn't he just a rental?

11-04-2013, 05:32 PM
BigRedChief Has a particular set of skills Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: On the water Casino cash: $3169627 VARSITY	**Official 2014 STL Cardinals thread ** 2011 WS Championship 2012 one win from another WS 2013 two wins from another WS title 2014? This is a franchise that has made the postseason 10 times in the last 14 seasons. Reached three World Series in the last decade, and won as many championships (two) the past eight seasons as it did from 1965 to 2005. Our new Manager has more post season experience than any other manager in baseball, except the Giants manager. Three million attendance? Take it to the bank. 60 post season wins since 2004. 20+ wins more than any other team. Only one of the last 14 seasons has been a losing one. Last edited by BigRedChief; 01-19-2014 at 02:36 PM..
Posts: 78,983

07-30-2014, 06:46 PM	#2282
BigRedChief Has a particular set of skills Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: On the water Casino cash: $3169627 VARSITY	National writers are starting to call out Matheny on his use of Jay and Craig over everyone else on the bench. Bourjas and OT in the line up tonight.... coincidence??? CBSSPORTS.COM article http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/eye-on-...-work-for-them Coming into the 2014 season, the Cardinals were poised to benefit from a deep and useful outfield corps. Almost four months into the current campaign, that corps is indeed deep -- inasmuch as a lot of usable outfielders are on the active roster -- but it hasn't been especially useful. Wednesday's deal for Justin Masterson reflected that depth, in that minor-league fly-catcher James Ramsey was sent to the Indians in return. However, the glut of outfielders at the big-league level is still in place, and that may be a problem for the Cardinals. If, post-Masterson, they're done dealing from that particular pool, then Mike Matheny is going to need to correct what to date has been faulty deployment of his outfield resources. Specifically, Matheny is all too attached to Jon Jay. Jay, as laid bare last postseason and readily apparent long before that, is not a defensively adequate center fielder. One look at his circuitous and confused routes on fly balls will tell you that much. Those defensive shortcomings become even more of a problem once you consider that whoever's manning center for the Cards is typically flanked by the range-challenged likes of Matt Holliday and Allen Craig. What Matheny and the Cardinals should be doing is starting Peter Bourjos in center as often as possible. Bourjos is a better base-runner than Jay, and he's a vastly better defender -- one of the best defensive center fielders in baseball on a rate basis, in fact. Jay is outhitting Bourjos this season, but bear in mind that Bourjos has a career Weighted Runs Created+ (wRC+) of 94, which means he's hardly a complete sinkhole at the plate, especially by up-the-middle standards. Moving forward, the ZiPS forecasting system tabs Bourjos to bat .250/.307/.404 over the remainder of 2014, while Jay is projected for a line of .276/.341/.373. Thanks to Jay's OBP-skewed line, you can argue he's the (very modestly) better hitter in the near-term, but Bourjos' substantial advantages in the other phases of the game easily make him the more valuable contributor. As well, there's the very plausible notion that Bourjos would hit more in line with expectations if Matheny would ever give him consistent playing time (Bourjos has made just two starts this month, and he's averaging just 2.7 plate appearances per game played). Speaking of inconsistent playing time, we have phenom Oscar Taveras. Taveras, since his "creation myth" home run on May 31, has struggled badly and even wound up back in Triple-A for a spell. He's one of the top hitting prospects in all of baseball, but even the highly regarded require an adjustment period. On top of that, Taveras is playing erratically. It's hard enough transitioning to the highest level as a ballyhooed 22-year-old; start-and-stop duty doesn't help matters. It suggests a lack of confidence on the part of management, and it prevents Taveras from being able to learn and adjust with any sense of rhythm. One could easily argue that his future and present would be better served by being back in Memphis. It's also worth noting that Taveras' part-time status is in deference to Craig, who looks adrift at the plate (he's helpless against breaking stuff off the plate these days) and seems to have lost his ability to drive the ball. Craig's raw power numbers have been methodically declining since his standout 2011-12 seasons, and here's what's become of the right-handed Craig this season ... Source: FanGraphsThis looks like a player who has completely lost his pull-field power. In fact, this season Craig is slugging just .294 on pulled balls, and when he pulls the ball he's lugging around an unthinkable groundball/fly-ball ratio of 13.5 (!). Maybe it's mechanical, but something's off with Craig and has been for some time. So in essence Taveras is mostly sitting around so as to apprentice under a one-dimensional outfielder who has lost his power. One could of course argue that Taveras and Bourjos wouldn't hit even if granted regular duty, but we can't know that. We can't know that because Matheny seems to prefer a demonstrably inferior player to Bourjos and a declining player with limited upside to Taveras. Excessive pine time for players who are accustomed to being fixtures in the lineup exacts a price on their ability to play their way into regular duty. You see, depth is good, except when it isn't. If the Masterson trade was GM John Mozeliak's last major move before Thursday's non-waiver deadline, then that "problematic" outfield depth will remain in place. At that point, it's on Matheny to rethink his decisions. __________________ Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering. -YODA
Posts: 78,983

07-30-2014, 06:50 PM	#2283
Marcellus Diablo Negro Join Date: Sep 2003 Casino cash: $3112662	Stating the obvious to anyone but Matheny.
Posts: 69,192

07-30-2014, 08:37 PM	#2288
BigRedChief Has a particular set of skills Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: On the water Casino cash: $3169627 VARSITY	Left handlers are hitting .444 against Kelly when they hit the ball in the middle of the field. Stat courtesy of the Padres broadcasters. __________________ Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering. -YODA
Posts: 78,983

07-30-2014, 08:41 PM	#2289
kcpasco MVP Join Date: Sep 2007 Casino cash: $7733463	Looks like another putrid offensive performance. I'm not staying up to watch this shitfest.
Posts: 15,477

07-30-2014, 09:04 PM	#2290
TrebMaxx Supporter Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Peoples Republic of CoMo Casino cash: $1507252	Defense is putrid as well! That was just Wong!! __________________
Posts: 4,321

07-30-2014, 09:56 PM	#2291
Jewish Rabbi What's up braj? Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Placencia, Belize Casino cash: $2148320	Can't wait for this train wreck of a season to be over so we can watch Mizzou and the Chiefs struggle to get 6 wins, and Kim Anderson to go 13-16.
Posts: 15,543

07-30-2014, 10:57 PM	#2292
'Hamas' Jenkins Now you've pissed me off! Join Date: Jan 2006 Casino cash: $8009572	This is the worst Cardinal team of this century. The 2007 team was better than this. __________________ "When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read 'all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics.' When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretense of loving liberty – to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocrisy.”--Abraham Lincoln
Posts: 74,825

07-31-2014, 10:27 AM	#2293
ShowtimeSBMVP Chiefs Join Date: Feb 2009 Casino cash: $3686009	Red Sox Close To Trading Lackey To Cardinals Or*Dodgers http://t.co/yhp21mYLBj — MLB Trade Rumors (@mlbtraderumors) July 31, 2014
Posts: 23,752

07-31-2014, 10:34 AM	#2294
ShowtimeSBMVP Chiefs Join Date: Feb 2009 Casino cash: $3686009	Cards getting lackey — Jon Heyman (@JonHeymanCBS) July 31, 2014
Posts: 23,752