Hall of Fame finalists announced

[carcosa]

Who ya got?

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300...2017-finalists

The 26 semifinalists for the Pro Football Hall of Fame Class of 2017 were trimmed to 15 finalists during Tuesday's Gold Jacket Finalists special on NFL Network.

The 15 modern-era finalists join three other finalists to comprise 18 finalists under consideration for the Class of 2017.

Former Seahawks safety Kenny Easley was announced as a senior finalist last August by the Seniors Committee, which reviews the qualifications of those players whose careers ended more than 25 years ago.

Cowboys owner Jerry Jones and former NFL Commissioner Paul Tagliabue were announced as contributor finalists in August by the Hall of Fame's Contributor Committee that considers persons who made outstanding contributions to professional football other than players and coaches.


2017 Hall of Fame finalists

1. Brian Dawkins, safety (Philadelphia Eagles, 1996-2008; Denver Broncos, 2009-2011)

2. Jason Taylor, defensive end (Miami Dolphins, 1997-2007, '09, 2011; Washington Redskins, 2008; New York Jets, 2010)

3. LaDainian Tomlinson, running back (San Diego Chargers, 2001-09; New York Jets, 2010-11)

4. Morten Andersen, kicker (New Orleans Saints, 1982-1994; Atlanta Falcons, 1995-2000; 2006-07; New York Giants, 2001; Kansas City Chiefs, 2002-03; Minnesota Vikings, 2004)

5. Don Coryell, coach (St. Louis Cardinals, 1973-77; San Diego Chargers, 1978-1986)

6. Kurt Warner, quarterback (St. Louis Rams, 1998-2003; New York Giants, 2004; Arizona Cardinals, 2005-09)

7. Terrell Davis, running back (Denver Broncos, 1995-2001)

8. Isaac Bruce, wide receiver (Los Angeles Rams, 1994; St. Louis Rams, 1995-2007; San Francisco 49ers, 2008-09)

9. Terrell Owens, wide receiver (San Francisco 49ers, 1996-2003; Philadelphia Eagles, 2004-05; Dallas Cowboys, 2006-08; Buffalo Bills, 2009; Cincinnati Bengals, 2010)

10. Tony Boselli, offensive tackle (Jacksonville Jaguars, 1995-2001; Houston Texans, 2002)

11. Alan Faneca, guard (Pittsburgh Steelers, 1998-2007; New York Jets, 2008-09; Arizona Cardinals, 2010)

12. Joe Jacoby, offensive tackle (Washington Redskins, 1981-1993)

13. Ty Law, cornerback (New England Patriots, 1995-2004; New York Jets, 2005, '08; Kansas City Chiefs, 2006-07; Denver Broncos, 2009)

14. John Lynch, safety (Tampa Bay Buccaneers, 1993-2003; Denver Broncos, 2004-07)

15. Kevin Mawae, center (Seattle Seahawks, 1994-97; New York Jets, 1998-2005; Tennessee Titans, 2006-09)

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by ThaVirus

Well now we're arguing past the point that I'm willing. I don't think Davis should reach HoF enshrinement.

I'm just saying, it's tough to look at those three years he spent and not be impressed- system he damned. It's important to note that he also scored a shitload of TDs during that span and probably put together the best postseason resumé of any RB in league history.

Ok, then we're on the same page. I agree that those 3 years were elite years
(of the 3-year itch guys, I think it was better than Priest's 3 years and a lot better than Alexander's and Tiki's)

[Basileus777]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

No kidding.

On Sunday the broacast team was talking about Phillip Rivers as a clear HoFer. Okay, so let's think about that one. If Phillip Rivers is a HoFer, take a look at the quarterbacks in 2015 with equal or better resumes:

Brady
Rodgers
Brees
Manning
Manning
Roethlisberger

If you include Rivers, that's 7 no-doubt HoFers that played last year. Then you have the guys that will almost certainly pass him in Wilson (if he hasn't already) and Luck not to mention a guy in Carr who is on pace to easily be the statistical equal to Rivers. Not to mention Cam Newton, an MVP and Super Bowl QB who probably only needs 5 years of health and another good run to be just dynamic enough to be considered for inclusion.

Finally you have the veterans who, when their careers are over, will be statistically pretty damn comparable to Rivers: Carson Palmer, Matt Ryan, Andy Dalton. I mean shit, Flacco's resume will stand up to Rivers.

I mean c'mon - if Phillip Rivers is a HoF quarterback, you can make a solid argument that a full THIRD of the league was led by a 'Hall of Fame Quarterback' last year.

Quarterback numbers are getting pretty crazy and an adjustment's gonna have to come sooner or later.

Brady
Rodgers
Brees
P. Manning

Are locks for the HOF. Big Ben is too thanks to the team he plays for and his rings. Eli needs to win another Superbowl otherwise his terrible interception numbers and underwhelming career numbers will create a bad narrative for him. Rivers has no shot, every veteran player gets fellated as a potential HOFer at some point by the media when they get near the end of their career and it means nothing.

[jettio]

Originally Posted by DanT

For me, the two key dimensions for most players to gain entry are (1) to be considered among the very best league wide and certainly at your position and (2) being elite for several years. Winning a MVP award is a clear-cut example of being among the very best league-wide. An example of an award that satisfies both criteria is to be a 1st-teamer on an All-Decade team voted on by experts, such as the ones that the pro football hall of famers put out. http://www.profootballhof.com/news/n...-decade-teams/
Being a 2nd-teamer on one of those teams is also impressive, but can put a player on the bubble. For what it's worth, Boselli and Davis are 2nd-teamers on the all-1990's team, while Tomlinson is a first teamer on the all 2000's team. Warner didn't make all-decade team, but he did win an MVP, as did Davis. The fact that Boselli and Davis made it onto an all-decades team despite their abbreviated careers says a lot about their greatness and how much it was appreciated by their fellow greats. However, there are other 2nd teamers on those lists that are not in the Hall of Fame. It's not clearcut. I can understand why many fans don't feel like players with shortened careers are not worthy of the hall, even when those players were widely viewed as the very best at their positions while they were playing.

Another route to the Hall of Fame is to have a longish career of being very, very good, though not necessarily the elite at one's position. In some cases, the career stats become very impressive, even if the player rarely if ever was All-Pro nor received any serious consideration for an MVP award.

Terrell Davis was the most important player on a team that won 2 consecutive Super Bowls.

Gale Sayers is in the HOF and that is a precedent for outstanding players who everybody knows would have continued to be outstanding if not for an injury.

[Rain Man]

Originally Posted by jettio

Terrell Davis was the most important player on a team that won 2 consecutive Super Bowls.

Gale Sayers is in the HOF and that is a precedent for outstanding players who everybody knows would have continued to be outstanding if not for an injury.

I bet the current voters regret the fact that Gale Sayers was inducted. He's the sole argument for every injury-prone player who hobbles past the window.

[ThaVirus]

Originally Posted by jettio

Terrell Davis was the most important player on a team that won 2 consecutive Super Bowls.



Gale Sayers is in the HOF and that is a precedent for outstanding players who everybody knows would have continued to be outstanding if not for an injury.

I'm not sure Davis would have continued at or near that pace.

With all of those regular season and postseason touches, he was well over the notorious 400 carries which generally spells doom for a RB.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by jettio

Terrell Davis was the most important player on a team that won 2 consecutive Super Bowls.

Gale Sayers is in the HOF and that is a precedent for outstanding players who everybody knows would have continued to be outstanding if not for an injury.

That would be Elway.

Gayle Sayers doesn't set the precedent. He is the exception to the rule. Sayers put together five top 5 seasons (TD had 3), and doubled as an elite kick returner in those years. I agree a lot of that was because of the mystique of his talent, but even with that he has an edge over TD. That's not a knock on TD's talent, by the way.

[Rain Man]

I feel like the only rare thing that Davis offers is a 2,000 yard season. Otherwise he's in the Hall of Pretty Good.

But even a 2,000 yard season shouldn't get you in (and we won't even mention the ethically questionable blocking system). Take a look at Jamal Lewis: 10,607 yards rushing (4.2 average), another 1,879 receiving, a 2,000 yard rushing season with more yards and a higher ypc than Davis, and a Super Bowl win. Does he deserve to go in over Davis based on that resume? Is Davis' extra ring worth 3,000 yards and an upgraded peak season?

[Rain Man]

I bet there's a curve that could explain the injury-prone player. How much better do you have to be in your short career to get into the Hall?

I might have to do a poll series to test this. If you had a running back who descended from the mountains of Tibet, played one season, and gained 5,000 yards with 60 touchdowns, would he be worthy of the Hall of Fame? What's the performance threshold for a one-year player?

[DanT]

Originally Posted by Rain Man

I bet there's a curve that could explain the injury-prone player. How much better do you have to be in your short career to get into the Hall?

I might have to do a poll series to test this. If you had a running back who descended from the mountains of Tibet, played one season, and gained 5,000 yards with 60 touchdowns, would he be worthy of the Hall of Fame? What's the performance threshold for a one-year player?

Speaking of curves, there's an interesting approach for comparing players in different eras that amounts to translating each players performance trajectory onto a standardized basis to facilitate the comparison. You can find a description of the approach here https://madison.byu.edu/papers/final.pdf . That paper does not look at the NFL, but the overall approach could be adapted to it, I would think.

[mcaj22]

Originally Posted by Rain Man

I bet there's a curve that could explain the injury-prone player. How much better do you have to be in your short career to get into the Hall?

I might have to do a poll series to test this. If you had a running back who descended from the mountains of Tibet, played one season, and gained 5,000 yards with 60 touchdowns, would he be worthy of the Hall of Fame? What's the performance threshold for a one-year player?

not injury but this is pretty much Kurt Warners resume

3 elite years on the Rams 99, 2000, 2001
wheels fall off, from 2002-2006 floats around the league relegated to backup duty old man status
then 3 more good to elite years with the Cards in 2007, 2008, 2009

his entire resume is basically 6 seasons, with a HUGE mediocre to nothing gap in the middle. It's amazing really. His 37 year old season with 30 touchdowns and 4500 passing yards on 67 percent completion is disgusting.

[beach tribe]

Originally Posted by carcosa

I'm gonna say:

Tomlinson
Andersen
Warner
Owens
And uhhhhh I dunno, Faneca?

Exactly my list down to uhhhhh Faneca?

[ThaVirus]

Originally Posted by Rain Man

I feel like the only rare thing that Davis offers is a 2,000 yard season. Otherwise he's in the Hall of Pretty Good.

But even a 2,000 yard season shouldn't get you in (and we won't even mention the ethically questionable blocking system). Take a look at Jamal Lewis: 10,607 yards rushing (4.2 average), another 1,879 receiving, a 2,000 yard rushing season with more yards and a higher ypc than Davis, and a Super Bowl win. Does he deserve to go in over Davis based on that resume? Is Davis' extra ring worth 3,000 yards and an upgraded peak season?

Chris Johnson got 2,000 once as well and he's a poor man's Jamaal Charles.

[ThaVirus]

Actually, a poor man's Jamaal Charles is still really ****ing good.

[ThaVirus]

And I say yes to the Hall for the RB who plays one season and amasses 5,000 yards and 60 TDs LOL

No doubt about it.

[Mile High Mania]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

The point is that the system made any RB better. TD was miles better than Gary, Droughns, and company. But his stats were inflated by the system. 1500 yards could easily become 1800. Other than 1 year, it's not like TD was dominating the rushing field. He played in an era where 1400-2000 yard rushers were fairly common. Could many of the top 5 backs put up bigger seasons than TD in that offense? It's worth asking.

Keep in mind who's not in the HOF. Shaun Alexander had a few equally outstanding years and had a longer career. Eddie George, Roger Craig, Ottis Anderson, Portis and Watters had longer careers of consistently excellent years including a few elite seasons. Priest Holmes from a total yardage standpoint was as dominant for the same amount of time. I wouldn't put TD in given that competition as it is, but when you factor in inflation from playing in a RB friendly era and advantages playing in that system, it's even harder to make that case.

I hear you and I'm not advocating anything, just stating commentary. There are a lot of deserving guys that should be in there. I think it's sad to diminish what he achieved in that short timeframe. It's not a regular season HOF... it's a career view.

If he never gets in, I won't lose sleep and I won't raise the roof if he does get in... I don't expect him to do it.

1,000 yards is 62 per game - nothing special, that's all I was saying. Yes, Denver's system produced a lot of solid RB production, but nothing on the level of what Davis did - aside from Portis.

Portis had two 1500 yard seasons and was sent to WAS. Played another 7 seasons (9 total) with four more seasons over 1200 yards. Is that the longevity required - is his career book more HOF worthy than Davis?

Davis had 2300 fewer yards and 15 fewer TDs in roughly 30 fewer starts. No, I'm not advocating for Portis. Just saying, if Davis had played another 3-4 seasons with a standard 1,000 yards and 5-6 TD average, does that really provide the missing longevity to get him into the HOF?

It's not like he all of a sudden just started to suck, dude had a bad injury. Rookie year of 1100 yards, then 1500, then 1700 then over 2,000 - all that playoff success and BAM --- terrible injury trying to make a block on a Griese INT. Career pretty much over.

Again, not advocating for a HOF nod, but I do find humor in how many try to diminish what he truly accomplished. The guy was a beast.