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Old 10-19-2018, 11:37 PM  
Taco John Taco John is offline
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Trump makes his play for California...

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Old 10-22-2018, 12:10 PM   #16
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Does he have California yet?
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Old 10-23-2018, 03:44 AM   #17
ghak99 ghak99 is offline
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Originally Posted by SFfan79 View Post
As someone who lives in California, is a conservative (registered independent) who supports Trump, this water issue hits close to home for me.

I'm not a farmer. I am recreational fisherman (and hunter) who spends a lot of time on the ocean fishing for salmon over the course of the season. Water flowing to the ocean is essential to helping salmon swim up river and, when they hatch from their eggs, to be able to get back down river in conditions that allow them to survive. Salmon fishing has a huge economy in California, and giving all water to farmers just because, will hurt the salmon population. Which then hurts businesses that rely on salmon fishing.

I'm all for farmers getting water, but they also have to understand that they can't just go and dictate where they can try and grow food just because they want to. There has been a HUGE increase in grape vineyards, and worse, almond trees planted in areas where there was historically little water. Almond tree's require a crap ton of water. Vineyards require water, and the sheer number of vineyards that have been built hurt the water supply.

Water needs to be able to flow to the ocean to also help the ecosystem in the California delta. If there is not enough flow into the delta then salt water pushes up the delta, which hurts the ecosystem. But growing almonds in areas where there was little to no water is nothing but a money grab and hurts the their argument for more water.

It's a delicate issue. I support the farmers, but I also think some of them are going too far with their demands, and expectations of what they think they are allowed to get.

This is not a simple environmentalist vs farmers issue. It's a resource issue that affects everyone. We had many years of drought, that caused major problems from river flows to food sources for wildlife. Deer populations especially have been hurt and are no where near what they were 10 years ago. Farmers need to grow food, but that shouldn't come at the cost of ruining the ecosystem in the delta and hurting salmon populations that are no where near what they used to be.

There is more at stake regarding water then just farmers needing to grow food. Go too far and you have a devastating and irrevocable consequences.
Some good points, but I think you're getting a little carried away with the term "farmer".

Many of those almond plantations that were recently established were not developed by "farmers". The land was purchased by investors who hired a guy to manage the property. That's not a farmer, that's a corporation and a hired hand making a play on profits despite the environment not being fit for long term production. A "farmer" would know he doesn't have the power to pull the strings that would allow him to put a square peg into a round hole. Large investors, especially groups of them, generally do believe they have the ability to get such things done. They plan to ride the current production fad wave and move on when the calculator tells them to, leaving the mess behind them when it's over. It happens all over the country in one form or another as the various crop production cycles play out. The low interest rates also played a big role in investors doing stupid things while chasing short term gains.

Some of the developers who went door to door trying to obtain land, that was currently in livestock production, were told the land would not come close to supporting the crop they intended to raise. They didn't care, they had large amounts of money to invest and believed they could get it done. I don't blame the producers who took their cash and moved to greener pastures, but in the end someone has to lose if they're going to cash in.

I doubt I agree with Trump's approach on this and agree with many of your concerns. He sees land that could be developed, it's what he does, while those with more experience know you can't put that square peg into the round hole without other serious ramifications. Perhaps they'll meet in the middle where it needs to be, but I'm sure they'll be some filthy rich lawyers on both sides as it continues to play out in the courts for years on end.
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Old 10-23-2018, 07:46 AM   #18
HonestChieffan HonestChieffan is online now
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My background and a good bit of my career was involved with grazing land management and grass management/invasive species.

The water issue could prompt more understanding of the role the central valley plays in food production. That would be good as we as a people are becoming further removed from ag production and less aware of where our food comes from.

Here is a link with a lot of history crammed into a good read.

http://rangelandarchive.ucdavis.edu/...ge_Management/
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Old 10-23-2018, 09:11 AM   #19
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Not to worry.....Trumps epa and climate policies are melting glaciers , so coastal states will be flooded soon.
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