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Old 01-11-2017, 09:23 AM  
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John McCain: Schmuck Supreme

Sworn Donald Trump enemy John McCain admitted Wednesday that he passed the dossier of claims of a Russian blackmail plot against the president-elect.
The Arizona senator issued a public statement amid mounting questions of his exact role in the affair - and how a document riddled with errors and unverifiable claims came to be published.
'Late last year, I received sensitive information that has since been made public,' he said.
'Upon examination of the contents, and unable to make a judgment about their accuracy, I delivered the information to the Director of the FBI.
'That has been the extent of my contact with the FBI or any other government agency regarding this issue.'
But the 2008 Republican loser, who disowned his party's candidate weeks before the election, may have been far more intimately involved than that.

The chain of how the document reached the FBI is not officially known.
However Carl Bernstein, the Watergate reporter who contributed to the first story about its existence, published by CNN on Tuesday afternoon, suggested that McCain was handed it by a former British ambassador to Moscow.
Bernstein told CNN: 'It came from a former British MI6 agent who was hired from a political opposition research firm in Washington who was doing work about Donald Trump for both republican and democratic candidates opposed to Trump.
'They were looking at Trumps business ties, they saw some questionable things about Russians, about his businesses in Russia, they in turn hired this MI6 former investigator, he then came up with additional information from his Russian sources, he was very concerned by the implications of it, he then took it to an FBI colleague that he had known in his undercover work for years, he took it to this FBI man in Rome who turned it over to the bureau in Washington in August.
'And then, a former British ambassador to Russia independently was made aware of these findings and he took the information to John McCain – Senator John McCain of Arizona – in the period just after the election, and showed it to McCain – additional findings.
'McCain was sufficiently disturbed by what he read to take it to FBI director James Comey himself personally, they had a five minute meeting the two men, very little was said, McCain turned it over to him and is now awaiting what the FBI’s response is to that information.'
The identity of the former British ambassador has not been disclosed.
Only one former British ambassador to Washington remains in UK government service, Sir Tim Barrow, who went on to be Foreign Office political director and is now Britain's ambassador to the European Union.
McCain's long-standing opposition to Trump is well known although he only formally ended support for the Republican candidate in October, when the notorious 'p****' tape emerged.

The Arizona senator said at the time: '"Donald Trump’s behavior... concluding with the disclosure of his demeaning comments about women and his boasts about sexual assaults, make it impossible to continue to offer even conditional support for his candidacy.'
US intelligence agencies have claimed that Russian spies hacked the Democratic National Committee and leaked damaging emails designed to undermine Hillary Clinton's campaign for president.


The new information, which has not been independently verified, claims that Russian officials also gathered highly damaging information on Trump, but only released the details attacking Clinton through the WikiLeaks website.
The Kremlin has denied all of the allegations, while Trump tweeted: 'FAKE NEWS - A TOTAL POLITICAL WITCH HUNT'.

However, McCain was so concerned about the information contained within the 35-page dossier, which included allegations that Trump had hired prostitutes in Moscow to urinate on a bed that had previously been used by US President Barack Obama and his wife Michelle, that he passed the information onto the FBI
CNN reported that intelligence chiefs had presented Trump with a two-page summary of the dossier late last week following a briefing with President Obama.
It is not known if it included the most salacious details.
Trump has consistently denied that Russian intelligence agencies had launched a massive cyber attack ahead of last November's election.
The dossier which McCain passed to FBI Director James Comey was compiled by the former MI6 man.
The memos describe sex videos involving prostitutes filmed during a 2013 visit by Trump to a luxury Moscow hotel, supposedly as a potential means for blackmail.
They also suggest Russian officials proposed lucrative deals in order to win influence over the Republican real estate magnate.
One claim, that special counsel to Trump Michael Cohen met with Kremlin officials in Prague in August 2016 has been branded as 'fake news'.
Cohen denied that he was central 'to the ongoing secret liaison relationship between the New York tycoon's campaign and the Russian leadership'.
Cohen tweeted a photograph of his passport and said he had never visited Prague.
According to reports, the former MI6 man had been hired to conduct 'opposition research' on the Trump campaign by first Republican enemies of Trump, then Democratic ones.
Russia denied the claims, with President Vladimir Putin's spokesman Dmitry Peskov telling journalists: 'The Kremlin does not have compromising information on Trump.'
The Kremlin spokesman called the dossier a 'total fake' and 'an obvious attempt to harm our bilateral relations'.
Earlier, the Kremlin had denied hacking the Democratic National Committee and leaking information to deliberately weaken Hillary Clinton's campaign.
Donald Trump's transition team has repeatedly denied allegations that it had received any help from Moscow.


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Old 01-12-2017, 03:23 AM   #166
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Originally Posted by Baby Lee View Post
Part of your problem is this assumption that corruption, incompetence, and attempts at foreign influence are discrete events that are active or stopped.

The dangers of all of them are ubiquitous and unending.

The bigger part of YOUR problem is rather than discuss these matters rationally, you defaulted to an accusation of shilling and clouded judgment.
I still think it's one or the other, but I was betting on Hillary hatred in your case. You had your chance to discuss it, but in BEP fashion, you want me to check your archives. Not interested.

And again, don't whine about being accused of shilling or hating Hillary if you're going to snark it up. If you want discussion, mind your tone. If you don't want to mind your tone, that's cool too. Just stop whining.

Got it?
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Old 01-12-2017, 03:37 AM   #167
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
I still think it's one or the other, but I was betting on Hillary hatred in your case. You had your chance to discuss it, but in BEP fashion, you want me to check your archives. Not interested.

And again, don't whine about being accused of shilling or hating Hillary if you're going to snark it up. If you want discussion, mind your tone. If you don't want to mind your tone, that's cool too. Just stop whining.

Got it?
You've come undone.
First off, your attempts to characterize my position on the Clintons as 'Hillary hatred' as if it's fungible with those who don't think of it much outside 'she seems like an uppity bitch' is insulting. And your blithe attempt to conflate my refusal to re-re-re-catalog the various and myriad aspects of corruption and incompetence assembled meticulously and recounted numerous times clearly and cogently as 'BEP fashion' is beyond the pale.
You want to believe that Hillary is a nice old lady that the dastardly Russians kneecapped, that's fine. You want to believe I haven't cataloged her malfeaseance before. That's fine as well, although it calls into question your awareness over the past decade or so here.

But in the end, yes you can **** right off with your witless and unmerited accusations.

Sad, you once had a glimmer of analytical prowess. Perhaps eventually everyone will fall into the 'team' mindset as you appear to have now.
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Old 01-12-2017, 06:43 AM   #168
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
They don't do this on a daily basis. This went beyond typical espionage and it strikes at the heart of the American people's control over (and faith in) our government. Let's not minimize this by pretending it happens all the time.

Like I said, I'll agree to disagree about what's important here.
I lost faith in government 7 years ago, around a year after racist, God-fearing, unAmerican, cop-hating Barry was sworn in. Having brought bad actors like Holder, Hillary, and so many others, into senior government positions leaves good Americans with little faith that truth, justice, and the American way will prevail.

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Old 01-12-2017, 06:53 AM   #169
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What malfeasance of immediate concern do you have in mind?

I don't think Hillary's handling of classified information is as important now that she's lost the election as it was when it looked like people might elect her POTUS.

So yeah, unless I'm missing some grave malfeasance, I think the integrity of our electoral system (wrt foreign power cyber attacks and information campaigns) is more important.
Perhaps what's most sad is that the American public has to rely on external actors, or information relayed to external actors, to have the obvious verified and silence people who conveniently hide behind the notion that we were nuts. And I think, through the leaks, we now fully understand that the DNC conspired to rig the American electoral process. From systematically ****ing over one of their own candidates, to leaking debate questions to help their candidate sound better (more with it and whutty).

If those things aren't what you're most angry about relative to this mess, well you have some ****ed up priorities.

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Old 01-12-2017, 06:54 AM   #170
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lol - you say that Russian hacking of American democracy is less harmful than Hillary as POTUS, so be it. I disagree.
Who was making her way into the presidency by dishonest means. Brilliant.

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Old 01-12-2017, 07:37 AM   #171
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Reports of Russian hacking. Shouted down here in this forum. People said it either didn't happen or that Russia didn't do it. Now, Trump has said the hacking happened and that it was "probably" Russia.
No the real discussion on this topic has been who gives a shit? They didn't actually "influence" the election.

All they did was release the dirt on the DNC, they also tried to hack the RNC but they weren't dumb enough to let it happen.

If the DNC did not run out the shittiest candidate ever and weren't a bunch of low life dirtbags who rail roaded Bernie, and paid people to start shit at Trump rallies maybe they wouldn't have gotten what they deserved.

A Lot of people are tired of talking about nonsense that is meant to only delegitimize Trumps presidency.

Whether it was Russia or Iceland or Ireland doesn't concern me, we hack everyone, we attempt to influence elections in other countries. We arent victims here. We tried to influence Israel's elections just recently.

You counter that by having good defenses. The DNC did not have any defenses.

Off your high horse because your cries are bullshit.
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Old 01-12-2017, 08:04 AM   #172
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I never thought I would see the day that I would look upon Patteeu and John McCain as defenders of the American way.
Exactly! Which is precisely why you're delusional about this. When you start trusting warmongers on Nat Sec, you've truly lost your minds.


It is sad what blind partisanship does to losers like you
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Old 01-12-2017, 09:07 AM   #173
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No the real discussion on this topic has been who gives a shit? They didn't actually "influence" the election.

All they did was release the dirt on the DNC, they also tried to hack the RNC but they weren't dumb enough to let it happen.

If the DNC did not run out the shittiest candidate ever and weren't a bunch of low life dirtbags who rail roaded Bernie, and paid people to start shit at Trump rallies maybe they wouldn't have gotten what they deserved.

A Lot of people are tired of talking about nonsense that is meant to only delegitimize Trumps presidency.

Whether it was Russia or Iceland or Ireland doesn't concern me, we hack everyone, we attempt to influence elections in other countries. We arent victims here. We tried to influence Israel's elections just recently.

You counter that by having good defenses. The DNC did not have any defenses.

Off your high horse because your cries are bullshit.
It's not Bernie that got railroaded, it's his supporters that believed in him. I believe that Wikileaks's showed an email from the DNC pertaining an agreement with Bernie Sanders. Meaning that Bernie went along with it because he knew his only purpose was to act like competition for Shillary. She had to get over the loss to Obama and create the aura of invincibility.

The whole primary was rigged and we know there were coordinated efforts between the shillary campaign and the media to take out Trump. They've been trying to take out trump after the election as well by threatening the electors. Now there's a coordinated effort by the IC (intel community) to delegitimize his presidency. There are leaks, classified leaks to the media happening left and right, which is illegal.

I guess this is what happens when you drain the swamp, the IC has to float around pissing stories.
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Old 01-12-2017, 09:33 AM   #174
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Originally Posted by Baby Lee View Post
You've come undone.
First off, your attempts to characterize my position on the Clintons as 'Hillary hatred' as if it's fungible with those who don't think of it much outside 'she seems like an uppity bitch' is insulting. And your blithe attempt to conflate my refusal to re-re-re-catalog the various and myriad aspects of corruption and incompetence assembled meticulously and recounted numerous times clearly and cogently as 'BEP fashion' is beyond the pale.
You want to believe that Hillary is a nice old lady that the dastardly Russians kneecapped, that's fine. You want to believe I haven't cataloged her malfeaseance before. That's fine as well, although it calls into question your awareness over the past decade or so here.

But in the end, yes you can **** right off with your witless and unmerited accusations.

Sad, you once had a glimmer of analytical prowess. Perhaps eventually everyone will fall into the 'team' mindset as you appear to have now.
Still whining, I see. Get over it. You demanded specifics, but refused to get specific yourself. You're offended by someone characterizing your position yet you have no problem doing the same with a dollop of snark on top.

The guy playing team politics here is you, not me. I'm the Trump guy who thinks his fellow Trump guys have lost their minds. You're the Trump guy marching in lockstep.

And finally, I'm no more fan of Hillary than you are. She just doesn't make me lose my mind and ignore more important, current issues.
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Old 01-12-2017, 09:37 AM   #175
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Originally Posted by Marcellus View Post
No the real discussion on this topic has been who gives a shit? They didn't actually "influence" the election.

All they did was release the dirt on the DNC, they also tried to hack the RNC but they weren't dumb enough to let it happen.

If the DNC did not run out the shittiest candidate ever and weren't a bunch of low life dirtbags who rail roaded Bernie, and paid people to start shit at Trump rallies maybe they wouldn't have gotten what they deserved.

A Lot of people are tired of talking about nonsense that is meant to only delegitimize Trumps presidency.

Whether it was Russia or Iceland or Ireland doesn't concern me, we hack everyone, we attempt to influence elections in other countries. We arent victims here. We tried to influence Israel's elections just recently.

You counter that by having good defenses. The DNC did not have any defenses.

Off your high horse because your cries are bullshit.
How can you say it didn't influence the election? Why did the Trump team spend so much time raising issues from the wikileaks revelations if it was not the type of thing they thought would influence the election? Were they just wrong?
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Old 01-12-2017, 09:43 AM   #176
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I'm relying on an overwhelming consensus from the US Intelligence committee and those who have been briefed, including Donald Trump. Explain to me how anyone can still cling to the idea that the Russians didn't steal information from democrats and release it through wikileaks in order to influence our election?


Hillary's past is an important element of why she did not win...the leaks were just a reminder.

Hillary failed as a candidate when it came to listening to people.

If anyone should be crying foul it should be the Sanders supporters and campaign.

Hillary failed.
Now, they still have service available to you people who can't believe Hillary lost and are going through emotional distress and want to blame Hillary's loss on everything not Hillary. What kind of puppy do you want and what kind of coloring book would you like?
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Old 01-12-2017, 09:44 AM   #177
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How can you say it didn't influence the election? Why did the Trump team spend so much time raising issues from the wikileaks revelations if it was not the type of thing they thought would influence the election? Were they just wrong?
Absence of proof, its really just that simple.

And the fact is IF the DNC getting exposed influenced the election its still the DNC's fault. Period. Thats not difficult to understand either.
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Old 01-12-2017, 09:46 AM   #178
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Originally Posted by King_Chief_Fan View Post
Hillary's past is an important element of why she did not win...the leaks were just a reminder.
Yes...

Quote:
Originally Posted by King_Chief_Fan View Post
Hillary failed as a candidate when it came to listening to people.
yes...

Quote:
Originally Posted by King_Chief_Fan View Post
If anyone should be crying foul it should be the Sanders supporters and campaign.
yes...

Quote:
Originally Posted by King_Chief_Fan View Post
Hillary failed.
yes...

Quote:
Originally Posted by King_Chief_Fan View Post
Now, they still have service available to you people who can't believe Hillary lost and are going through emotional distress and want to blame Hillary's loss on everything not Hillary. What kind of puppy do you want and what kind of coloring book would you like?
Wait, I thought you were talking to me. Did you quote the wrong post or do you have me mistaken with someone who is the opposite of me?
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Old 01-12-2017, 09:50 AM   #179
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Absence of proof, its really just that simple.

And the fact is IF the DNC getting exposed influenced the election its still the DNC's fault. Period. Thats not difficult to understand either.
Absence of proof does not require absence of common sense. Marketing works. The Trump campaign hammered the wikileaks and dcleaks stuff home day after day. They wouldn't have done that if they thought it was not impactful.

I do agree that we can never know whether the impact changed the outcome though.
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Old 01-12-2017, 10:05 AM   #180
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Yes...



yes...



yes...



yes...



Wait, I thought you were talking to me. Did you quote the wrong post or do you have me mistaken with someone who is the opposite of me?
if it doesn't reflect you...please ignore.
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8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
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