Tickets Ticketmaster Dealing Under the Table

**gblowfish** · 09-20-2018, 09:28 AM

I'm not surprised by this at all. This is documented in Canada, not sure what the story may be in the USA:

https://consequenceofsound.net/2018/...alper-program/

On paper, Ticketmaster has long opposed ticket scalping. In the terms and conditions on its website, the Live Nation subsidiary clearly indicates ticket limits for buyers, and the company even has gone so far as to sue online ticket brokers like Prestige Entertainment for allegedly using bot software. In an interesting turn of events, however, it appears that Ticketmaster has had its own pockets in the scalping business all along.

In an investigative report, CBC and Toronto Star uncovered evidence that Ticketmaster has been operating its own secret scalping scheme. Both Canadian outlets sent journalists posing as scalpers to the Ticket Summit industry conference held in Las Vegas back in July. It was there that the two were allegedly approached by Ticketmaster and briefed on the company’s seedy reselling scheme.

The scam sees scalpers purchasing tickets from Ticketmaster, then reselling them at a higher price on Ticketmaster’s own secondary market platform TradeDesk. Under this scenario, Ticketmaster successfully inflates ticket prices and successfully profits not once, but twice — first on the fees of the initial ticket sale to scalpers, then on the fees captured during the pricier resale transactions made on TradeDesk.

According to the undercover report, not only is Ticketmaster recruiting these scalpers into its secret program, but it is also actively turning a blind eye to actions that violate the company’s own terms of service. The Toronto Star writes that scalpers face little to no consequences when it comes to the ticket buying process, such as when they initially purchase beyond the stated ticket limit:

“If we identify breaches of these limits … we reserve the right to cancel any such orders,” read Ticketmaster’s general terms and conditions. “Use of automated means to purchase tickets is strictly prohibited.”

But ticket resellers who break those rules have no reason to be concerned, the sales executive reassured. A blind eye will be turned.

“We don’t spend any time looking at your Ticketmaster.com account. I don’t care what you buy. It doesn’t matter to me,” said the Trade Desk sales executive. “There’s total separation between Ticketmaster and our division. It’s church and state … We don’t monitor that at all.”

This isn’t the first time Ticketmaster has come under fire for supposedly being in bed with scalpers. When Prestige Entertainment was sued by Ticketmaster last October, the online ticket broker shot back with counterclaims of its own. Its main argument was that Ticketmaster was itself guilty of trying to game the ticket buying system.

“However, TM fails to mention that, on information and belief, many tickets for each show of Hamilton were in fact never placed onto the primary ticket exchange, but went directly to the secondary ticket market for resale at significantly higher prices,” Prestige commented in a statement.

Ticketmaster has yet to issue a public statement, but wrote to CBC, saying “that as the world’s leading ticketing platform, representing thousands of teams, artists and venues, we believe it is our job to offer a marketplace that provides a safe and fair place for fans to shop, buy and sell tickets in both the primary and secondary markets.”

suzzer99 · 09-20-2018, 09:34 AM

Pure evil. I hate those guys.

**dannybcaitlyn** · 09-20-2018, 09:36 AM

I figured they were crooked. Hard as hell to get a ticket to a hot show from them.

**Rain Man** · 09-20-2018, 09:39 AM

Not shocked. It's widely known that Ticketmaster is evil.

Eleazar · 09-20-2018, 12:29 PM

I'm confused here. Ticketmaster created a reselling marketplace, whereas people used to sell the tickets on ebay or craigslist or wherever. So naturally they created a site that would compete in that space and they take fees like ebay would or whomever.

Ticketmaster sells a ticket to a person who is not ticketmaster, and then if that scalper decides to resell the ticket and decides to do it through their platform, they take an additional fee for that sale.

What is evil about this? The fact that they run a secondary marketplace? It's not like they are selling the tickets to themselves and then putting them on the resale site.

FAX · 09-20-2018, 12:36 PM

I agree. It's like a car dealership selling cars to themselves as "used". Or the carpet merchant marking up remnants. It's done all the time in some form or fashion.

I'm not sure why this is so evil other than the fact that they conceal what they're doing and lie about it like lying liars. Other than that, it's a pretty clever scheme.

FAX

Sassy Squatch · 09-20-2018, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eleazar

I'm confused here. Ticketmaster created a reselling marketplace, whereas people used to sell the tickets on ebay or craigslist or wherever. So naturally they created a site that would compete in that space and they take fees like ebay would or whomever.

Ticketmaster sells a ticket to a person who is not ticketmaster, and then if that scalper decides to resell the ticket and decides to do it through their platform, they take an additional fee for that sale.

What is evil about this? The fact that they run a secondary marketplace? It's not like they are selling the tickets to themselves and then putting them on the resale site.

Did you read the article? Ticketmaster is actively recruiting scalpers to buy from them and then put those tickets on Ticketmaster's secondary market so they can profit twice, all while turning a blind eye to the TOS violations which prohibit scalping.

Eleazar · 09-20-2018, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superturtle

Did you read the article? Ticketmaster is actively recruiting scalpers to buy from them and then put those tickets on Ticketmaster's secondary market so they can profit twice, all while turning a blind eye to the TOS violations which prohibit scalping.

Ok, I missed that 'recruiting' thing.

The scalpers are going to be there either way, right, if there's a profit to be made from reselling. But acting like they do things to suppress scalpers from buying while actually encouraging them is not right.

sedated · 09-20-2018, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eleazar

It's not like they are selling the tickets to themselves and then putting them on the resale site.

This might be happening, just not mentioned in the article. Ever try to get tickets to a big show when they go on sale at the box office? They are sold out within minutes, and the lucky few that can get access before they sell out generally only have mediocre ones to choose from. Someone is getting early access and buying them up.

**Bugeater** · 09-20-2018, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sedated

This might be happening, just not mentioned in the article. Ever try to get tickets to a big show when they go on sale at the box office? They are sold out within minutes, and the lucky few that can get access before they sell out generally only have mediocre ones to choose from. Someone is getting early access and buying them up.

Yep. Secondary market resellers are as big of scumbags as Ticketmaster. Taxpayers pay for all these shiny new arenas just to get the privilege of getting bent over on tickets.

2bikemike · 09-20-2018, 01:38 PM

I have refused to buy a ticket to anything if I have to go through Ticketmaster. Needless to say I don't go to many events anymore. So it's a double savings!

I don't get ripped off by Ticketmasters fees and I don't pay for tickets that I can do with out.

Valiant · 09-20-2018, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eleazar

I'm confused here. Ticketmaster created a reselling marketplace, whereas people used to sell the tickets on ebay or craigslist or wherever. So naturally they created a site that would compete in that space and they take fees like ebay would or whomever.

Ticketmaster sells a ticket to a person who is not ticketmaster, and then if that scalper decides to resell the ticket and decides to do it through their platform, they take an additional fee for that sale.

What is evil about this? The fact that they run a secondary marketplace? It's not like they are selling the tickets to themselves and then putting them on the resale site.

Technically they are. When you allow resellers to bot and buy all the best tickets then can double dip on fees and a percentage. Their software allows it. Hell I bet it was designed by them.

suzzer99 · 09-20-2018, 07:04 PM

Also if they are staggering ticket drops to drive up demand - only bots or insiders would always be on hand to gobble up the new ticket drops - say days after the original sale.

https://www.thestar.com/news/investi...lars-less.html

From a Bruno Mars show in Toronto:

Quote:

The investigation, which analyzed the box office seven times in the first hour of sales, found fewer than half of the seats in the arena for sale. In eight sections, not a single ticket was put on sale. But 90 minutes later, these tickets trickled out in pairs and rows. These seats are known as “hold-backs” and effectively throttle the supply of tickets in the opening moments when demand is highest.

“They do this for most shows [not sure if they do it for sports]. It’s standard practice,” said Ervil DiGiusto, a professional ticket broker who closely monitors the sales on Ticketmaster’s website. “They have complete rows but they don’t put them up all at once,” he said. “If (a fan) only sees a few pairs for sale, they’re going to jump on them.”

Hold-backs don’t just occur in the opening hours. Months after the box office opened, more blocks of tickets were released for the Bruno Mars show. On June 14 — four months after tickets initially went on sale — 72 premium seats on the floor and in the lower bowl appeared on the Ticketmaster site. On Aug. 7, another 144 tickets were released. Had those tickets been released earlier, fans who purchased more expensive seats might have opted for cheaper tickets.

“They’re artificially driving the price up. They’re artificially giving the impression of high demand,” said class action lawyer Tony Merchant, who launched a lawsuit against Ticketmaster in January after Canada’s Competition Bureau accused the company of price-gouging.

**Bugeater** · 09-20-2018, 07:30 PM

Good lord. I didn't think it was possible to hate TicketMaster more than I already did.

Garcia Bronco · 09-20-2018, 07:30 PM

Somebody post a we've landed on the moon pic. Everybody has known this for decades. Bump Ticketmaster.. and somewhere Pearl Jam is smiling.

09-20-2018, 09:28 AM
gblowfish Be Kind To Your Pets Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Glorious Independence, MO Casino cash: $17686178 VARSITY	Ticketmaster Dealing Under the Table I'm not surprised by this at all. This is documented in Canada, not sure what the story may be in the USA: https://consequenceofsound.net/2018/...alper-program/ On paper, Ticketmaster has long opposed ticket scalping. In the terms and conditions on its website, the Live Nation subsidiary clearly indicates ticket limits for buyers, and the company even has gone so far as to sue online ticket brokers like Prestige Entertainment for allegedly using bot software. In an interesting turn of events, however, it appears that Ticketmaster has had its own pockets in the scalping business all along. In an investigative report, CBC and Toronto Star uncovered evidence that Ticketmaster has been operating its own secret scalping scheme. Both Canadian outlets sent journalists posing as scalpers to the Ticket Summit industry conference held in Las Vegas back in July. It was there that the two were allegedly approached by Ticketmaster and briefed on the company’s seedy reselling scheme. The scam sees scalpers purchasing tickets from Ticketmaster, then reselling them at a higher price on Ticketmaster’s own secondary market platform TradeDesk. Under this scenario, Ticketmaster successfully inflates ticket prices and successfully profits not once, but twice — first on the fees of the initial ticket sale to scalpers, then on the fees captured during the pricier resale transactions made on TradeDesk. According to the undercover report, not only is Ticketmaster recruiting these scalpers into its secret program, but it is also actively turning a blind eye to actions that violate the company’s own terms of service. The Toronto Star writes that scalpers face little to no consequences when it comes to the ticket buying process, such as when they initially purchase beyond the stated ticket limit: “If we identify breaches of these limits … we reserve the right to cancel any such orders,” read Ticketmaster’s general terms and conditions. “Use of automated means to purchase tickets is strictly prohibited.” But ticket resellers who break those rules have no reason to be concerned, the sales executive reassured. A blind eye will be turned. “We don’t spend any time looking at your Ticketmaster.com account. I don’t care what you buy. It doesn’t matter to me,” said the Trade Desk sales executive. “There’s total separation between Ticketmaster and our division. It’s church and state … We don’t monitor that at all.” This isn’t the first time Ticketmaster has come under fire for supposedly being in bed with scalpers. When Prestige Entertainment was sued by Ticketmaster last October, the online ticket broker shot back with counterclaims of its own. Its main argument was that Ticketmaster was itself guilty of trying to game the ticket buying system. “However, TM fails to mention that, on information and belief, many tickets for each show of Hamilton were in fact never placed onto the primary ticket exchange, but went directly to the secondary ticket market for resale at significantly higher prices,” Prestige commented in a statement. Ticketmaster has yet to issue a public statement, but wrote to CBC, saying “that as the world’s leading ticketing platform, representing thousands of teams, artists and venues, we believe it is our job to offer a marketplace that provides a safe and fair place for fans to shop, buy and sell tickets in both the primary and secondary markets.”
Posts: 40,830

09-20-2018, 09:34 AM	#2
suzzer99 In Search of a Life Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: L.A. Casino cash: $3004284	Pure evil. I hate those guys.
Posts: 27,244

09-20-2018, 09:36 AM	#3
dannybcaitlyn Supporter Join Date: Oct 2004 Casino cash: $5244000	I figured they were crooked. Hard as hell to get a ticket to a hot show from them.
Posts: 6,984

09-20-2018, 09:39 AM	#4
Rain Man NFL's #1 Ermines Fan Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: My house Casino cash: $3358491 VARSITY	Not shocked. It's widely known that Ticketmaster is evil. __________________ I'm putting random letters here as a celebration of free speech: xigrakgrah misorojeq rkemeseit.
Posts: 141,249

09-20-2018, 12:29 PM	#5
Eleazar Beyond the Rapids Join Date: May 2003 Location: Langley, VA Casino cash: $-370000	I'm confused here. Ticketmaster created a reselling marketplace, whereas people used to sell the tickets on ebay or craigslist or wherever. So naturally they created a site that would compete in that space and they take fees like ebay would or whomever. Ticketmaster sells a ticket to a person who is not ticketmaster, and then if that scalper decides to resell the ticket and decides to do it through their platform, they take an additional fee for that sale. What is evil about this? The fact that they run a secondary marketplace? It's not like they are selling the tickets to themselves and then putting them on the resale site.
Posts: 80,659

09-20-2018, 12:36 PM	#6
FAX testing ... 1, 2, 3 Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Tennessee Casino cash: $6753759	I agree. It's like a car dealership selling cars to themselves as "used". Or the carpet merchant marking up remnants. It's done all the time in some form or fashion. I'm not sure why this is so evil other than the fact that they conceal what they're doing and lie about it like lying liars. Other than that, it's a pretty clever scheme. FAX
Posts: 44,492

09-20-2018, 01:38 PM	#11
2bikemike Born to Ride Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: NWA Casino cash: $2495377	I have refused to buy a ticket to anything if I have to go through Ticketmaster. Needless to say I don't go to many events anymore. So it's a double savings! I don't get ripped off by Ticketmasters fees and I don't pay for tickets that I can do with out.
Posts: 16,302

09-20-2018, 07:30 PM	#14
Bugeater The Maintenance Guy Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Renovated Bugeater Estate Casino cash: $6252680	Good lord. I didn't think it was possible to hate TicketMaster more than I already did.
Posts: 70,443

09-20-2018, 07:30 PM	#15
Garcia Bronco No Keys, No Problem Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Denver Casino cash: $5323136	Somebody post a we've landed on the moon pic. Everybody has known this for decades. Bump Ticketmaster.. and somewhere Pearl Jam is smiling.
Posts: 30,832