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Old 03-12-2018, 05:52 PM  
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Russian spy: Highly likely Moscow behind attack, says Theresa May

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-43377856

Former spy Sergei Skripal and his daughter were poisoned by a military-grade nerve agent of a type developed by Russia, Theresa May has told MPs.

The PM said it was "highly likely" Russia was responsible for the Salisbury attack.

The Foreign Office summoned Russia's ambassador to provide an explanation.

Mrs May said if there is no "credible response" by the end of Tuesday, the UK would conclude there has been an "unlawful use of force" by Moscow.

The chemical used in the attack, the PM said, has been identified as one of a group of nerve agents known as Novichok.

Mrs May said: "Either this was a direct action by the Russian state against our country, or the Russian government lost control of its potentially catastrophically damaging nerve agent and allowed it to get into the hands of others."

She said Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson had told the ambassador Moscow must provide "full and complete disclosure" of the Novichok programme to international body the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons.

Mrs May said the UK must stand ready to take much more extensive measures, and these would be set out in the Commons on Wednesday should there be no adequate explanation from Russia.

Retired military intelligence officer Mr Skripal, 66, and his daughter, Yulia, 33, were found slumped on a bench in Salisbury city centre on Sunday 4 March. They remain in a critical but stable condition in hospital.

Det Sgt Nick Bailey, who fell ill attending the pair, remains seriously ill, but has been talking to his family.

Mr Skripal was convicted by the Russian government of passing secrets to MI6 in 2004, but given refuge in the UK in 2010 as part of a "spy swap".

Home Secretary Amber Rudd will chair a meeting of the government emergency committee Cobra on Tuesday to discuss the latest developments in the case.

What are Novichok agents?


The name means "newcomer" in Russian, and applies to a group of advanced nerve agents developed in secret by the Soviet Union in the 1970s and 1980s
  1. One chemical - called A-230 - is reportedly five to eight times more toxic than VX nerve agent, which can kill a person within minutes
  2. Some are liquids, others are thought to exist in solid form. Some are reported to be "binary weapons", meaning they are typically stored as two less toxic chemicals which when mixed, react to produce the more toxic agent
  3. One variant was reportedly approved for use by the Russian military as a chemical weapon
  4. Designed to escape detection by international inspectors, their existence was revealed by defectors

Addressing the Commons following a meeting of the government's National Security Council, Mrs May said: "This attempted murder using a weapons-grade nerve agent in a British town was not just a crime against the Skripals.

"It was an indiscriminate and reckless act against the United Kingdom, putting the lives of innocent civilians at risk."

She told MPs the positive identification of this chemical agent was made by experts at the UK's Porton Down laboratory.

She said Russia has previously produced the agent and would still be capable of doing so.

The decision to point the finger at Moscow was also based on "Russia's record of conducting state-sponsored assassinations and our assessment that Russia views some defectors as legitimate targets for assassinations", the PM added.

Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn said "robust dialogue" with Russia was needed to avoid escalating tensions further - but he was heckled by Tory MPs when he raised questions about Russian oligarchs donating money to the Conservatives.

Secretary of State Rex Tillerson said the US agreed with the UK that Russia was likely to be behind the attack.

"We agree that those responsible - both those who committed the crime and those who ordered it - must face appropriately serious consequences," he added.

"We stand in solidarity with our allies in the United Kingdom and will continue to coordinate closely our responses."

Mrs May spoke to French President Emmanuel Macron on Monday and "discussed the wide pattern of aggressive Russian behaviour and agreed that it would be important to continue to act in concert with allies to address it", her spokesman said.

Nato Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg said the use of any nerve agent was "horrendous and completely unacceptable" and officials were in touch with the UK.

Downing Street said the incident was not an "article five" matter - a reference to Nato rules which say an attack on one member constitutes an attack on all.

However, the former UK National Security Adviser Lord Ricketts said action would be more effective with a "broader, Nato-EU solidarity behind us".

He added: "We can't out-punch Putin... But we can take a stand and we can invite others to join us."

Russian Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Maria Zakharova said Mrs May's statement was "a circus show in the British parliament".

"The conclusion is obvious - it's another information and political campaign based on provocation," she said.

Earlier, asked whether Russia was to blame, President Vladimir Putin told the BBC: "Get to the bottom of things there, then we'll discuss this."

BBC political editor Laura Kuenssberg says the tone of the meeting between Boris Johnson and the Russian ambassador Alexander Yakovenko was "cool but firm".

She says the men did not shake hands and the foreign secretary expressed the "outrage" of the British public.

Theresa May could have thrown the kitchen sink at Russia, expelling diplomats, toughening sanctions, and cracking down on oligarchs who keep their cash in London.

Instead, the PM has chosen a staged response, throwing down an ultimatum to the Kremlin to explain what happened or face the consequences.

The argument she was making was that this attack crossed a line, that it was not the sort of thing that sometimes happens to old spies in the darker underbelly of the intelligence world, but instead it was part of a pattern of Russian aggression from which other countries have also suffered.

The question now is what action Mrs May will be prepared to take on Wednesday once Russia has responded, or perhaps failed to respond.

The key will be the scale of the international co-operation she can secure.

For it is one thing to crack down on wealthy Russians in London, but it is another to secure united international action against Moscow.

This is a tougher ask, particularly when President Trump has yet to comment on the Salisbury attack and many European partners are looking to soften existing sanctions against Russia.

Mrs May is promising "extensive measures" - the question will be whether they will be enough to make the Kremlin think twice.

Police and Army activity continued in the Salisbury area on Monday, with officers - some wearing hazardous materials suits - removing a white van from the village of Winterslow, about six miles away.

A Sainsbury's car park has become the latest area to be sealed off in the city itself.

Mrs May said the people of Salisbury had responded with "fortitude and calmness", but there was some concern among residents about the length of time it had taken for information to be released.
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Old 03-13-2018, 06:57 PM   #121
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Shocked? No. Putin's an ex-KGB thug. That doesn't make it acceptable.

I'm suggesting that we back up our ally on whatever they want to do in retaliation for the Russians killing an enemy (and his daughter) on their soil with ****ing WMD.
Yes, Putin does play for keeps, no doubt about it...

The other part is interesting too, so if the Israelis decided to go to war with the rest of the middle east, because we're such close allies, we should back them up on whatever they want to do, or do you not see them as that close of an ally? France, Canada, Italy, Australia, New Zealand, Germany, or just England?

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Old 03-13-2018, 06:58 PM   #122
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
There's NO reason to make a nuclear Russia an enemy which is exactly what we've been doing. It's a total lack of reason. We have been attacking globally for hegemony. This is not what America is about.
Kitten, Putin has ALWAYS considered us an enemy. Not because of what we do, or say. But because he longs for the return of the Cold War. It doesn't matter what we do or don't do. It exists regardless. We have his own words on the matter.

So, we either let Putin have his way, taking over places like Crimea and so on, or we don't.
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Old 03-13-2018, 07:00 PM   #123
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Just for the record...

You are of the ilk that believe that the Russians were not behind this attack?
Serious question, what "benefit" is there, exactly? Just wondering...
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Old 03-13-2018, 07:00 PM   #124
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Originally Posted by GloryDayz View Post
Yes, Putin does play for keeps, no doubt about it...

The other part is interesting too, so if the Israelis decided to go to war with the rest of the middle east, because we're such close allies, we should back them up on whatever they want to do, or do you not see them as that close of an ally? France, Canada, Italy, Australia, New Zealand, Germany, or just England?

Israel isn't part of NATO. So, no. We've slapped Israel before. What's your point?
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Old 03-13-2018, 07:01 PM   #125
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Originally Posted by GloryDayz View Post
Serious question, what "benefit" is there, exactly? Just wondering...
Benefit of what?
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Old 03-13-2018, 07:01 PM   #126
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I'm not lying. Just ain't buyin' yet. There's no facts here in your post, so I will proceed with an opinion as well.

Everything is Russia, Russia, Russia these days. I get it. The globalists hate Russia and want to bring it down or even have a war. I could care less about either. Russia has always been Europe's whipping boy even before it was ever the Soviet Union. Britain screwed Russia before during WWI even when it was her ally. Britain is essentially a Muslim country now; was where the Steele dossier originated, and has detained an American conservative because her views are dangerous. That's what Britain is today. It's not Maggie Thatcher's country anymore. May is a snake. A globalist. Snakes getting at snakes is what we have here.

Putin's stint at the KGB was a back office desk job. It's made out to be more than it ever was.
We'll just have to disagree here my friend, all of that old history isnt at play IMO

This was all about Vlad baring his fangs and showing how dangerous he can be... he feels slighted by the world at large, and wants to make sure no one forgets Russian power

If he ever pulled the same stunt here, I'd want his ass hit hard in Syria or anywhere else our military deemed it feasible without starting a nuke war
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Old 03-13-2018, 07:03 PM   #127
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We'll just have to disagree here my friend, all of that old history isnt at play IMO

This was all about Vlad baring his fangs and showing how dangerous he can be... he feels slighted by the world at large, and wants to make sure no one forgets Russian power

If he ever pulled the same stunt here, I'd want his ass hit hard in Syria or anywhere else our military deemed it feasible without starting a nuke war
Okay, but you are on the same side as the globalists here. Ultimately, they're the problem and our real enemy—not a country like Russia which is economically weak, basically being just a petro state. And Christianity is flourishing there once again, under this despicable Vlad, while it is under attack here and in the west. Putin's Russia feels threatened and it's not all unjustified. Not all is as we're told exactly. No state has clean hands including ours and Britain's as well. Plus we've killed millions since 2003 which is much less than Vlad's victims.
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Old 03-13-2018, 07:05 PM   #128
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Israel isn't part of NATO. So, no. We've slapped Israel before. What's your point?
We only ally with NATO countries? OK, Albania, they decide to take action against somebody? Or is it just England?
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Old 03-13-2018, 07:06 PM   #129
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I have an issue with Livesteam.
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Old 03-13-2018, 07:06 PM   #130
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Benefit of what?
Killing an old retired spy?
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Old 03-13-2018, 07:14 PM   #131
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You Putin Haters all sound like Megyn Kelly during her NBC interview of Putin.
She was the perfect foil for him, making Putin look presidential and making him more re-electable.

Here was one of his responses to her endless accusations, which included many lies, including that Russia was behind Assad's chem attacks.
“Russia and the U.S. should sit down and talk in order to get things straight. I have the impression that this is what the current President wants, but he is prevented from it by some forces. We are ready to discuss any matter, be it missile-related issues, cyberspace, or counterterrorism efforts. … But the U.S. must also be ready.”
I agree with Putin. The globalist Establishment, needs to keep pouring it on, to box Trump in because they hate his campaign idea of detente with Russia.
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Old 03-13-2018, 07:44 PM   #132
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
You Putin Haters all sound like Megyn Kelly during her NBC interview of Putin.
She was the perfect foil for him, making Putin look presidential and making him more re-electable.

Here was one of his responses to her endless accusations, which included many lies, including that Russia was behind Assad's chem attacks.
“Russia and the U.S. should sit down and talk in order to get things straight. I have the impression that this is what the current President wants, but he is prevented from it by some forces. We are ready to discuss any matter, be it missile-related issues, cyberspace, or counterterrorism efforts. … But the U.S. must also be ready.”
I agree with Putin. The globalist Establishment, needs to keep pouring it on, to box Trump in because they hate his campaign idea of detente with Russia.
No one is going to re-elect Putin, he decrees himself Leader and so it is

I'm not saying America is blameless, but Putin is on an entirely different level... he doesnt even try to hide it, he winks and nods at his unspoken yet undisputed dictator power

Vladimir Putin is not our friend and never will be, no matter who we elect BEP... I used to freak out thinking of how he would **** Bernie Sanders blind, he'll squash us any chance he gets BEP
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Old 03-13-2018, 07:54 PM   #133
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BEP is officially a Russian shill. Do we need to get some evidence that the account is compromised, or can it just be permanently banned?
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Old 03-13-2018, 08:07 PM   #134
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Originally Posted by Easy 6 View Post
No one is going to re-elect Putin, he decrees himself Leader and so it is

I'm not saying America is blameless, but Putin is on an entirely different level... he doesnt even try to hide it, he winks and nods at his unspoken yet undisputed dictator power

Vladimir Putin is not our friend and never will be, no matter who we elect BEP... I used to freak out thinking of how he would **** Bernie Sanders blind, he'll squash us any chance he gets BEP
From years of chasing those commie ****s around the ocean, I'd still pay money to sink on of their ****ing subs. Well, if they're not sinking themselves!
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Old 03-13-2018, 08:16 PM   #135
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From years of chasing those commie ****s around the ocean, I'd still pay money to sink on of their ****ing subs. Well, if they're not sinking themselves!
Here's to our electric boats and the sailors that crew them. Long may we own the black waters.
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