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Old 08-31-2018, 03:09 PM  
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FISA Court Held NO HEARINGS on Carter Page Warrants

by Cristina Laila August 31, 2018


The Justice Department admitted in a court filing this week that the FISA court never held hearings on the FISA applications for former Trump advisor Carter Page.

One FISA warrant and three subsequent FISA renewals on Carter Page were obtained by Obama’s corrupt FBI in order to spy on Trump’s campaign.

Via Judicial Watch:

‘[N]o such hearings were held with respect to the acknowledged FISA applications. Accordingly, no responsive hearing transcripts exist.’

(Washington, DC) – Judicial Watch today announced that in response to a Judicial Watch Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) lawsuit, the Justice Department (DOJ) admitted in a court filing last night that the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court held no hearings on the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) spy warrant applications targeting Carter Page, a former Trump campaign part-time advisor who was the subject of four controversial FISA warrants.

In the filing the Justice Department finally revealed that the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court held no hearings on the Page FISA spy warrants, first issued in 2016 and subsequently renewed three times:

[National Security Division] FOIA consulted [Office of Intelligence] … to identify and locate records responsive to [Judicial Watch’s] FOIA request…. [Office of Intelligence] determined … that there were no records, electronic or paper, responsive to [Judicial Watch’s] FOIA request with regard to Carter Page. [Office of Intelligence] further confirmed that the [Foreign Surveillance Court] considered the Page warrant applications based upon written submissions and did not hold any hearings.

President of Judicial Watch Tom Fitton had this to say about the new developments:

“It is disturbing that the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance courts rubber-stamped the Carter Page spy warrants and held not one hearing on these extraordinary requests to spy on the Trump team. Perhaps the court can now hold hearings on how justice was corrupted by material omissions that Hillary Clinton’s campaign, the DNC, a conflicted Bruce Ohr, a compromised Christopher Steele, and anti-Trumper Peter Strzok were all behind the ‘intelligence’ used to persuade the courts to approve the FISA warrants that targeted the Trump team.”

In July, Judicial Watch obtained over 400 pages of heavily redacted Carter Page FISA documents.


Comey, Rosenstein, McCabe and Sally Yates all signed the FISA applications even though Hillary’s fraudulent Russia dossier was used as a pretext to obtain the warrants.

Obama’s Deep State DOJ and FBI withheld information about Hillary Clinton and the DNC being behind the information used to obtain the FISA warrant.

President Trump is reportedly moving to declassify the June 2017 FISA renewal which was signed by Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein and then-FBI Deputy Director Andrew McCabe.

Trump’s ace card is a declassification order on all Carter Page FISA docs and other documents related to the Russia witch hunt.



https://www.judicialwatch.org/press-...page-warrants/
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Old 08-31-2018, 10:03 PM   #106
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Sure, I suppose I can say it again:

That isn't relevant to the procedural question at hand
OK, maybe you understand it this time, it's totally relevant.

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Old 08-31-2018, 10:11 PM   #107
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You might note, comrade, that you stated "proceeding" not hearing. Of course the FBI and others present their reasoning for requesting a warrant. I presume they did the same with Page.

Let's try to put this to bed. Why did you post this thread? Were you under the impression that something took place or didn't take place with Page's warrant that does not or does take place with other FISA warrant applications?

If so, what?


> Good to see - after 7 pages of spirited debate - to see you agree that the FISA Court does hold hearings as part of the court proceedings.

> I am not sure why you "presumed the FISA Court held hearings regarding the Carter Page warrant application - when the entire story-line of this thread is new evidence proves there were no hearings in this case.


Why did I post this thread?

- I am sure you are aware at this point that Peter Strozk is/has been suspect concerning illegal/unethical behavior.

> Are you aware that Peter Strozk is good friends with FISA Court Judge Contrares?

> Are you aware that FISA Court Contrares and Peter Strozk are known to have "socialized" before and after the Carter Page warrant application?

> As the Judical Watch article above states: "“It is disturbing that the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance courts rubber-stamped the Carter Page spy warrants and held not one hearing on these extraordinary requests to spy on the Trump team.
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Old 08-31-2018, 10:19 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by BanHam View Post
> Good to see - after 7 pages of spirited debate - to see you agree that the FISA Court does hold hearings as part of the court proceedings.

> I am not sure why you "presumed the FISA Court held hearings regarding the Carter Page warrant application - when the entire story-line of this thread is new evidence proves there were no hearings in this case.


Why did I post this thread?

- I am sure you are aware at this point that Peter Strozk is/has been suspect concerning illegal/unethical behavior.

> Are you aware that Peter Strozk is good friends with FISA Court Judge Contrares?

> Are you aware that FISA Court Contrares and Peter Strozk are known to have "socialized" before and after the Carter Page warrant application?

> As the Judical Watch article above states: "“It is disturbing that the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance courts rubber-stamped the Carter Page spy warrants and held not one hearing on these extraordinary requests to spy on the Trump team.
Yes, the FISA courts seem to listen to probable cause that warrants the warrant, comrade. I've not claimed otherwise. But there is no hearing like you described:

prosecutors and defense attorneys arguing on behalf of clients.

What you have not shown is how the Page warrant application is any different than any other application. You do realize that, yes?

One could argue that it's disturbing that almost all FISA warrants are granted and therefore "rubber-stamped" sure. But if you do, again, how does that make Page's situation any different?

No, I wasn't aware of Strzok and this judge socialized. What is the basis of this claim, and what does it have to do with this thread?
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Old 08-31-2018, 10:47 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by Donger View Post
Yes, the FISA courts seem to listen to probable cause that warrants the warrant, comrade. I've not claimed otherwise. But there is no hearing like you described:

prosecutors and defense attorneys arguing on behalf of clients.

What you have not shown is how the Page warrant application is any different than any other application. You do realize that, yes?

One could argue that it's disturbing that almost all FISA warrants are granted and therefore "rubber-stamped" sure. But if you do, again, how does that make Page's situation any different?

No, I wasn't aware of Strzok and this judge socialized. What is the basis of this claim, and what does it have to do with this thread?


> Donger: "Yes, the FISA courts seem to listen to probable cause that warrants the warrant, comrade. I've not claimed otherwise."

- For the past 7 pages of this thread - you continuously argued that the FISA Court "does not hold Hearings."



> Donger: "But there is no hearing like you described:"

prosecutors and defense attorneys arguing on behalf of clients.

- Starting in post #11, I stated the complete opposite of what you are claiming I stated.


> Donger: "What you have not shown is how the Page warrant application is any different than any other application."

- I did not have to make this effort. The Judicial Watch article, which this thread is based on, made the argument - in which I agree.


> Donger: "One could argue that it's disturbing that almost all FISA warrants are granted and therefore "rubber-stamped" sure."

- Not almost all cases are "rubber-stamped." The FISA Court has a very strict process and series of court proceedings - including hearings.


> Donger: No, I wasn't aware of Strzok and this judge socialized. What is the basis of this claim, and what does it have to do with this thread?


- There are many sources that have addressed this issue - for some time now.

- This is just one of many:

http://thefederalist.com/2018/03/16/...el-flynn-case/

- What does this have to do with this thread? "Everything"
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Old 09-01-2018, 04:11 AM   #110
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Originally Posted by BanHam View Post
> Donger: "Yes, the FISA courts seem to listen to probable cause that warrants the warrant, comrade. I've not claimed otherwise."

- For the past 7 pages of this thread - you continuously argued that the FISA Court "does not hold Hearings."


> Donger: "But there is no hearing like you described:"

prosecutors and defense attorneys arguing on behalf of clients.

- Starting in post #11, I stated the complete opposite of what you are claiming I stated.
That's correct. FISA courts do not hold "hearings" like what you described.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BanHam View Post
> Donger: "What you have not shown is how the Page warrant application is any different than any other application."

- I did not have to make this effort. The Judicial Watch article, which this thread is based on, made the argument - in which I agree.
Yes, you and they do. They (and you) are claiming that there was no hearing in the Page case. But, there are not usually any hearings of the type you describe in FISA warrant cases, so again, so what?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BanHam View Post
> Donger: "One could argue that it's disturbing that almost all FISA warrants are granted and therefore "rubber-stamped" sure."

- Not almost all cases are "rubber-stamped." The FISA Court has a very strict process and series of court proceedings - including hearings.
Umm, JW claims (in your OP) that Page's case was rubber stamped because there was no "hearing." Do you agree with them or not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BanHam View Post
> Donger: No, I wasn't aware of Strzok and this judge socialized. What is the basis of this claim, and what does it have to do with this thread?


- There are many sources that have addressed this issue - for some time now.

- This is just one of many:

http://thefederalist.com/2018/03/16/...el-flynn-case/

- What does this have to do with this thread? "Everything"
No. A FISA judge who recused himself from the Flynn case because he knew Strzok has nothing to do with this thread about Page.
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Old 09-01-2018, 07:28 AM   #111
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That's correct. FISA courts do not hold "hearings" like what you described.




Yes, you and they do. They (and you) are claiming that there was no hearing in the Page case. But, there are not usually any hearings of the type you describe in FISA warrant cases, so again, so what?



Umm, JW claims (in your OP) that Page's case was rubber stamped because there was no "hearing." Do you agree with them or not?



No. A FISA judge who recused himself from the Flynn case because he knew Strzok has nothing to do with this thread about Page.


I have to admit - I have enjoyed your efforts in 'word-smithing' my comments. You may be disingenuous, but you are determined.

- You are strong in the 'Resistance.'


> Pivoting back toward the Judicial Watch article here, and the motivation for posting this thread -

- Has it dawned upon you yet - that the reason the FISA Court did not conduct any hearings/proceedings in regard to spying on Carter Page/Trump Campaign is that:

= the warrant was approved through a different process?
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Old 09-01-2018, 07:33 AM   #112
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I have to admit - I have enjoyed your efforts in 'word-smithing' my comments. You may be disingenuous, but you are determined.

- You are strong in the 'Resistance.'


> Pivoting back toward the Judicial Watch article here, and the motivation for posting this thread -

- Has it dawned upon you yet - that the reason the FISA Court did not conduct any hearings/proceedings in regard to spying on Carter Page/Trump Campaign is that:

= the warrant was approved through a different process?
No, comrade, it hasn't. Why do you think it was (if you do)?
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Old 09-01-2018, 07:44 AM   #113
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No, comrade, it hasn't. Why do you think it was (if you do)?


Yes - I do.


Would the Judicial Watch "Bombshell - no Carter Page FISA Court Hearing" article be more relevant to you (and others) if it were shown (eventually - which is happening) that -

- AG Loretta Lynch approved the Carter Page FISA Warrant, after the FISA Court had already rejected several Carter Page FISA Warrant applications (with hearings - Ex Parte of course).
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Old 09-01-2018, 08:00 AM   #114
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Originally Posted by Donger View Post
And, again, that is correct.

In other words, FISA court proceedings do not involve prosecutors and defense attorneys arguing on behalf of clients.

And it was no different with the Page application. No "hearing."

So, why did you post this thread?
Everyone agrees that there isn't a hearing involving both the defense and the prosecution. The question is whether or not there's an interactive hearing involving the prosecution alone. I think the language you're relying on is ambiguous on that.
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Old 09-01-2018, 08:00 AM   #115
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Yes - I do.


Would the Judicial Watch "Bombshell - no Carter Page FISA Court Hearing" article be more relevant to you (and others) if it were shown (eventually - which is happening) that -

- AG Loretta Lynch approved the Carter Page FISA Warrant, after the FISA Court had already rejected several Carter Page FISA Warrant applications (with hearings - Ex Parte of course).
Yes, of course.
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Old 09-01-2018, 08:01 AM   #116
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Everyone agrees that there isn't a hearing involving both the defense and the prosecution. The question is whether or not there's an interactive hearing involving the prosecution alone. I think the language you're relying on is ambiguous on that.
You think that the prosecution did not request the warrant? Or, didn't ask the judge for one?
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Old 09-01-2018, 08:14 AM   #117
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Yes, of course.


Good - we agree.

- We probably disagree on whether-or-not there was legitimate legal grounds to approve the Carter Page/Trump Campaign FISA Warrant.


> But we can agree that The AG can order such surveillance 'without' FISC Court approval.

- The relevant law being 50 US Code 1805:


(e)Emergency orders

(1)Notwithstanding any other provision of this subchapter, the Attorney General may authorize the emergency employment of electronic surveillance if the Attorney General—

(A) reasonably determines that an emergency situation exists/..
4. /..with respect to the employment of electronic surveillance to obtain foreign intelligence information before an order authorizing such surveillance can with due diligence be obtained;



> There is substantive circumstantial evidence to show AG Loretta Lynch illegally took advantage of this law for political purposes.

- Which explains why the Judicial Watch article above exposed that lack of FISA Court hearings in the Carter Page/Trump Campaign FISA Court warrant application.
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Old 09-01-2018, 08:16 AM   #118
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G> There is substantive circumstantial evidence to show AG Loretta Lynch illegally took advantage of this law for political purposes.

- Which explains why the Judicial Watch article above exposed that lack of FISA Court hearings in the Carter Page/Trump Campaign FISA Court warrant application.
What substantive circumstantial evidence is that, comrade?
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Old 09-01-2018, 09:01 AM   #119
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http://www.fisc.uscourts.gov/sites/d...iles/Leahy.pdf

Good read for those wanting to actually know what goes on.
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Old 09-01-2018, 09:13 AM   #120
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http://www.fisc.uscourts.gov/sites/d...iles/Leahy.pdf

Good read for those wanting to actually know what goes on.
That's good stuff, AustinChief, thanks.

So, hearings are not typically held unless the judge thinks it is needed and/or warranted, right?
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