***** Official 2016/2017 Kansas Basketball Repository Thread *****

[saphojunkie]

Now with 800% more crapshoot!

Roster:

Spoiler!

RETURNING PLAYERS:
Frank Mason, sr.
Landen Lucas, sr.
Devonte Graham, jr.
Sviatoslav Mykhailiuk, jr.
Dwight Coleby, jr.
Carlton Bragg, soph.
Legerald Vick, sop.
Tyler Self, sr.
Clay Young, RS JR.

INCOMING PLAYERS:
Josh Jackson - Rivals #1 player, ESPN100 #3 overall player



Udoka Azubuike, fr.



Mitch Lightfoot, fr.


Evan Maxwell, jr. (sits out year due to transfer rules)

Malik Newman, RSSOPH (sits out year due to transfer rules)

SCHEDULE

Spoiler!

WASHBURN (EXH.)
TUE, NOVEMBER 1
LAWRENCE, KAN. ALLEN FIELDHOUSE

VS. EMPORIA STATE (EXH)
MON, NOVEMBER 7
LAWRENCE, KAN. ALLEN FIELDHOUSE

ARMED FORCES CLASSIC
INDIANA
FRI, NOVEMBER 11
HONOLULU, HAWAII JOINT BASE PEARL HARBOR-HICKAM
STATE FARM CHAMPIONS CLASSIC

CHAMPIONS CLASSIC
DUKE
TUE, NOVEMBER 15
NEW YORK, N.Y. MADISON SQUARE GARDEN

VS. SIENA
FRI, NOVEMBER 18
LAWRENCE, KAN. ALLEN FIELDHOUSE

CBE HALL OF FAME CLASSIC

MON, NOVEMBER 21 TBA
TUE, NOVEMBER 22 TBA
KANSAS CITY, MO. SPRINT CENTER

VS. UNC ASHEVILLE
FRI, NOVEMBER 25
LAWRENCE, KAN. ALLEN FIELDHOUSE

VS. LONG BEACH STATE
TUE, NOVEMBER 29
LAWRENCE, KAN. ALLEN FIELDHOUSE

VS. STANFORD
SAT, DECEMBER 3
LAWRENCE, KAN. ALLEN FIELDHOUSE

VS. UMKC
TUE, DECEMBER 6
LAWRENCE, KAN. ALLEN FIELDHOUSE

VS. NEBRASKA
SAT, DECEMBER 10
LAWRENCE, KAN. ALLEN FIELDHOUSE
JAYHAWK SHOOTOUT

DAVIDSON
SAT, DECEMBER 17
KANSAS CITY, MO. SPRINT CENTER

@ UNLV
THU, DECEMBER 22
LAS VEGAS, NEV. THOMAS & MACK CENTER
SONIC SEC/BIG 12 CHALLENGE

BIG12/SEC CHALLENGE
@ KENTUCKY
SAT, JANUARY 28
LEXINGTON, KY RUPP ARENA TV: ESPN/2/U

CONFERENCE SCHEDULE TBA

PHILLIPS 66 BIG 12 CHAMPIONSHIP
FIRST ROUND
WED, MARCH 8
KANSAS CITY, MO. SPRINT CENTER

QUARTERFINALS
THU, MARCH 9
KANSAS CITY, MO. SPRINT CENTER

SEMIFINALS
FRI, MARCH 10
KANSAS CITY, MO. SPRINT CENTER

FINAL
SAT, MARCH 11
KANSAS CITY, MO. SPRINT CENTER

NCAA MEN'S BASKELL CHAMPIONSHIP

FIRST ROUND
THU, MARCH 16 - FRI, MARCH 17


SECOND ROUND
SAT, MARCH 18 - SUN, MARCH 19


SWEET SIXTEEN
THU, MARCH 23 - FRI, MARCH 24


ELITE EIGHT
SAT, MARCH 25 - SUN, MARCH 26


FINAL FOUR - GLENDALE, ARIZ. UNIVERSITY OF PHOENIX STADIUM
FINAL FOUR
SAT, APRIL 1

NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP
MON, APRIL 3
GLENDALE, ARIZ. UNIVERSITY OF PHOENIX STADIUM

Notable dates:

Late Night in the Phog
Oct 1 6:30 PM
Allen Fieldhouse
Students enter at 4:30PM, general public at 5:00 PM

Champions Classic:
Nov 15, 2016 - Madison Square Garden. KU vs. Duke

CBE Hall of Fame Classic:
semis & finals at Sprint Center in KC.
Nov 21 - 22 (early games date & time ).

Armed Forces Classic
Joint Base Pearl Harbor-Hickham, Hawai`i: Nov. 11 (ESPN)
Indiana vs. Kansas
Arizona vs. Michigan State

BIG 12/SEC CHALLENGE
Kansas vs. Kentucky
Rupp Arena, Lexington, KY
Jan 28, 2017



Let's go get Lucky 13. And a damn National Championship.

[sedated]

[Prison Bitch]

Originally Posted by Romosexual

PB, this is where the point of Josh Jackson staying in school to improve his draft stock was made and how the conversation started. Stop trying to troll me, loser.

Which the poster even conceded was a "ridiculous" thought.


You're mentally unstable, stupid, and a pest on the board. I can't recall ever reading anything interesting from you. No wonder you lost all that fantasy money.

[BWillie]

Originally Posted by Romosexual

the offensive thing is you think an education matters do a kid like Derrick Rose

me and you would CHERISH a free education

but we received 12 years of great education before college ... and it was important to us

what's offensive is the fact you think the rowing team deserves to be compensated like a basketball or football player ... life isn't fair. Basketball and football generates all the revenue. They get all the profits. Period. Not fair? Play basketball and stop rowing.

The NCAA is a huge ****ing sham. I like watching KU as much as the next but I'm not naive enough to think these kids aren't being grossly exploited.

Is what it is.

Because every uneducated basketball player is Derrick Rose. Surely no previously uneducated basketball players benefited from their scholarship and education received in college to get a job outside of basketball.

For 99% of the NCAA sports player pool, scholarship room and board is more than enough compensation. The school and NCAA shouldn't have to pay any player anything, BUT players should be allowed to make money off their name. Make appearance on Sportscenter, sign shoe deal, get paid for appearance somewhere OUTSIDE the course of their team duties. You can tax it. Cap it, if you want, I guess. You can even make trusts if you don't want the kid to touch it while he's in school so it's accessible after school.

[Hootie]

Originally Posted by BWillie

Because every uneducated basketball player is Derrick Rose. Surely not prior uneducated basketball players benefited from their scholarship and education received in college to get a job outside of basketball.

Not really my point. I'm saying, the age old argument of, "they are being compensated!" is kind of ridiculous. It's like saying professional athletes are overpaid as the owners of the team make billions off of them as the product.

The NCAA is profiting significantly using unpaid labor predominately with college football and basketball (men's).

So, when a fan tells me something like, "player X should stay another year and develop!" it makes me cringe because they really shouldn't. If they can play professionally in any capacity they should do that as soon as humanly possible.

[Hootie]

and as a KU fan, that's why I love the Frank Mason's and Devonte Graham's of the world (opposed to the Andrew Wiggin's and Josh Jackson's) ... gives us a few years to follow a guy and follow his progression. Makes cheering for a college team fun. 1 and done's are boring if you ask me. But it's not their fault ...

and I'm sorry if this is derailing the thread, god forbid I engage in discussion about college basketball and the NCAA in a college basketball thread. I realize there is a big game going right now!

[Chief Pagan]

Originally Posted by ChiefsFanatic

But if they spent another year or two in college, it's more likely that they will actually develop their skills, and improve their "potential" in the eyes of the NBA.

Sure for some players. For other players, they may flash potential their freshman year and have a chance to go to the NBA late in the first round. They decide to stay in college and improve their game and it turns out their ceiling is lower than thought and don't get drafted at all. They aren't going to have a successful NBA career regardless of what they did, but if you can get drafted in the first round, that is a big paycheck even if you never get another.

[saphojunkie]

Originally Posted by Romosexual

if players can't develop in the NBA as basketball being their full time job ... they aren't going to develop. Thinking you'll develop in college better because 'you're the man' playing against inferior talent when you also have to balance a class schedule (lol) is foolish.

you don't stay in college to develop, it's a myth

Kobe Bryant developed pretty nicely as a 17 year old in the pros ... you either have that work ethic, or you don't.

This is not actually true. There are myriad factors that go into whether or not a player will be successful in the NBA, not the least of which is timing.

If Buddy Hield comes out as a sophomore and is a late first round pick - which is more than unlikely, but works for this example - then he likely is taken by a team as a flyer. Let's say the Houston Rockets, who like his analytics. By the mid point of the season, he has shown incredible work ethic and resolve, is highly athletic, but raw, and he has a massively broken shot than needs fixing.

Hield starts putting in the work to fix his shot. But he is the 11th man on a deep Rockets team, and frankly he is simply not a priority for a coaching staff trying to make a playoff run. Buddy puts in the time, but he gets nowhere near the attention that he did as the marquee player for a college team that ABSOLUTELY NEEDS him to be competitive.

Houseton doesn't need Buddy Hield to develop that much. At best, he's third SG behind Harden and another veteran.

Then, as they're watching Golden State ascend, Houston decides they need a stretch four who can defend out to the three. They try to trade Buddy Hield, but there are minimal takers, and they instead waive him in favor of a veteran with deep playoff experience to come off the bench.

Hield is unemployed, but not for long. He's picked up by the Magic, who think he can be their future backup SG. But the Magic coaches have a completely different approach to fixing his shot, and not only does it not increase his progress, it actually muddies it. Hield's shot is MORE broken than ever. With a strong draft approaching, the Nets go into full tank mode. They play Hield as a starter for the last 15 games, and he is exposed as a shooter.

At the fifth pick, they select Mario Hezonja, pushing Hield back to the end of the bench. Hezonja and Aaron Gordon are the future nucleus along with Alfred Payton, and they get 95% of all focus from a player development standpoint.

By the time he would have been a senior, Held is waived from his fourth team and just doesn't have the energy to go through it all again, trying to fix what seems like an unfixable shot.

He goes to Greece to play Euroball, where he can rely on his athleticism until that fades, and the legend of Buddy never happens.

My point in all of this is that there is no definitive answer to "stay in school and get better!" vs "Nope - there's better development in the NBA!"

It is a player by player, team by team, year by year basis.

Situation is all that matters - contract guarantees, GMs, coaches who believe in you, roster construction, team chemistry, season record, upcoming plans for draft and free agency.

All of these things affect player development, not just whether or not they stayed in school for 1 year or 4.

[Chief Pagan]

Originally Posted by Romosexual

1 and done's are boring if you ask me. But it's not their fault ...

Jackson, Wiggins, Embiid...

Sure I would have loved to see more of them on a Jayhawk team.

But watching them play in college and the word boring does not come to mind...

[Chief Pagan]

Originally Posted by saphojunkie

Hield starts putting in the work to fix his shot. But he is the 11th man on a deep Rockets team, and frankly he is simply not a priority for a coaching staff trying to make a playoff run. Buddy puts in the time, but he gets nowhere near the attention that he did as the marquee player for a college team that ABSOLUTELY NEEDS him to be competitive.

In a situation like that, he would obviously get more game minutes in college than the NBA.

I don't follow the details of what is and is not allowed, but don't NBA teams have bigger coaching staffs and more money. So is it really true that a college star is going to get more individual coaching in college, where you nominally have to go to class, you have far fewer games, you can't spend as much of the year formally practicing, as would a NBA bench player?

[saphojunkie]

Originally Posted by Chief Pagan

In a situation like that, he would obviously get more game minutes in college than the NBA.

I don't follow the details of what is and is not allowed, but don't NBA teams have bigger coaching staffs and more money. So is it really true that a college star is going to get more individual coaching in college, where you nominally have to go to class, you have far fewer games, you can't spend as much of the year formally practicing, as would a NBA bench player?

It depends on how much money and time they want to spend on you. With a non-guaranteed contract, it comes down to how much the team believes in you and what their situation is.

There's no hard and definitive answer either way. I'm sure the OU coaches wanted him to fix his shot his first three years, also. Why did it take until his senior year? Something changed - either Hield's effort, the coaching staff's effort, Hield's understanding of the coaching, or the method of the coaching.

But there is absolutely no guarantee he has the same development in the NBA. Talent matters, effort matters, but situation matters just as much.

[Hootie]

...not sure the Buddy Hield thing works.

But for a guy like Steph Curry ... he was a baby in college. When he was 18, he wasn't physically developed yet. LeBron James was a man at age 12.

Hield might have been more like a Curry in that fashion. All players are different ... but if you think it matters where a guy is drafted in the NBA, it just doesn't. Nikola Jokic, Draymond Green ... NBA coaches are going to figure out if the guy can play or not and it doesn't matter if they are drafted 1st or 45th. Or not drafted.

Hell, the Heat gave up on Michael Beasley almost immediately and he was a stud at KSU.

There are a lot of Michael Beasley's in the world - you can have all of the talent but if you don't have the work ethic, drive and the ability to adapt once you're not easily the most talented guy on the court ... you aren't going to make it. Whether you go to the pros right away or stay in school.

Look at the guys like Josh Selby and Xavier Henry who came to KU and everyone thought they might be #1 overall and they couldn't cut it when they were on the court with 9 other guys who were nearly as talented ... a lot of guys don't have the heart to compete like that. Nothing Henry or Selby did at KU was going to save them from busting out of the NBA immediately. Just not good enough.

[Hootie]

Originally Posted by Chief Pagan

Jackson, Wiggins, Embiid...

Sure I would have loved to see more of them on a Jayhawk team.

But watching them play in college and the word boring does not come to mind...

no, not boring - but, I'll take the Chalmers/Rush/Arthur/Collins etc dynamic where you get to grow with the kids as they progress as opposed to the 100% known 1 and dones ... it's like Wiggins/Embiid were never even there.

[BWillie]

That drunk bald kid on Wichita State is really on a tear lately. Look at his last 5 games, honestly pretty solid.

[Buehler445]

Originally Posted by O.city

If you need more development for the nba, where would you rather get that, at a college where you have to do school and all the other shit or

In the nba, where you have no other responsibilities than basketball, and your being paid for it.

It depends on how good you are. If you are a marginal guy it may be helpful to not get demolished every time you step on the floor. It's just like JV. Freshman in high school develop faster against other JVers than getting beat down on varsity. Same principle.

Originally Posted by Romosexual

...not sure the Buddy Hield thing works.

But for a guy like Steph Curry ... he was a baby in college. When he was 18, he wasn't physically developed yet. LeBron James was a man at age 12.

Hield might have been more like a Curry in that fashion. All players are different ... but if you think it matters where a guy is drafted in the NBA, it just doesn't. Nikola Jokic, Draymond Green ... NBA coaches are going to figure out if the guy can play or not and it doesn't matter if they are drafted 1st or 45th. Or not drafted.

Hell, the Heat gave up on Michael Beasley almost immediately and he was a stud at KSU.

There are a lot of Michael Beasley's in the world - you can have all of the talent but if you don't have the work ethic, drive and the ability to adapt once you're not easily the most talented guy on the court ... you aren't going to make it. Whether you go to the pros right away or stay in school.

Look at the guys like Josh Selby and Xavier Henry who came to KU and everyone thought they might be #1 overall and they couldn't cut it when they were on the court with 9 other guys who were nearly as talented ... a lot of guys don't have the heart to compete like that. Nothing Henry or Selby did at KU was going to save them from busting out of the NBA immediately. Just not good enough.

Selby is a guy that absolutely should have went because his stock went down with every minute played. He was horrible and very much should have taken that first contract for whatever because that's all he was getting.

[BWillie]

I'm still confused why Selby was the #1 Rivals Recruit (Scout & ESPN did not agree as they had him like 5 or 6). He wasn't a PG. He was a small SG. He wasn't even a great shooter or passer. I still don't get it. Rivals needs to fire some people over that evaluation.