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Old 05-29-2018, 09:19 PM  
patteeu patteeu is offline
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Concern about Obama IC spying on Trump?

Are any non-Trump voters around here starting to be concerned about the Obama administration turning it's counter-intelligence resources on the Trump campaign during the 2016 election? I realize that there's always the chance that we will eventually find some super compelling basis for the spying, but given what we know now are any of you starting to think that maybe there really was something rotten going on?

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Old 05-31-2018, 11:39 AM   #136
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For starters. The fantasy where I play Ding Dong Jeopardy..
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Old 05-31-2018, 11:40 AM   #137
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For starters. The fantasy where I play Ding Dong Jeopardy..
Yes, I didn't think so.
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Old 05-31-2018, 12:13 PM   #138
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"They show precisely what I stated. That the FBI began the investigation after Papadopoulos ran his mouth."

doesn't sound like he ran his mouth to me--sounds like he was set up

amazing Mueller has given up on him also now that he turned him over for judication for obstruction

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/...tencing-605153



https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/n...o-papadopoulos
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crashcourse ....proof positive that somebody pissed in the gene pool.
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Old 05-31-2018, 12:34 PM   #139
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Old 05-31-2018, 12:57 PM   #140
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Originally Posted by Mr. Kotter View Post
Given Nunes previous actions and leaks....yeah, it is about public disclosure.
Even if there were something in Nunes' actions that were concerning, that would be a separate issue.
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Old 05-31-2018, 01:02 PM   #141
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This same logic should be applied to all the conflicting, revised, and false reports about meetings with Russians with Trump campaign officials. We know there has been a ridiculous number of those.

I also don't understand why you push this so much when you've got Gowdy and lots of other Republicans that have seen the info and aren't pushing this out there. If anyone had a reason to put a partisan spin on it, they would. Look how hard Nunes tried to push a false narrative with the memo?

I just don't see the rationale for believing this was done inappropriately based on what we currently know.
What do you think I'm pushing?

Yes, the same logic applies to all of it. The "facts" keep shifting so relying on one particular set of reports, especially a set that has been contradicted by other reports, shouldn't be considered relying on facts at this point. You can say you find one set of reports more plausible or more believable, but you can't pretend to be objectively processing facts.
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Old 05-31-2018, 01:04 PM   #142
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
What do you think I'm pushing?

Yes, the same logic applies to all of it. The "facts" keep shifting so relying on one particular set of reports, especially a set that has been contradicted by other reports, shouldn't be considered relying on facts at this point. You can say you find one set of reports more plausible or more believable, but you can't pretend to be objectively processing facts.
Nobody here knows the facts. This has been a shit show from the very beginning. A new IC needs to be set up.
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Old 05-31-2018, 01:05 PM   #143
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Most of us simply the investigation completed in a fair fashion. We want Mueller to do his job, but are open to whatever results he finds.

We await his findings...and don't assume guilt, or innocence one way or the other--unlike you it appears.
Huh?

Presumed innocent until proven guilty is kinda the basis for the rule of law in the western world.

You can't really flip it over and say 'no you!" because presumed guilt and presumed innocence aren't really on equal footing.
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Old 05-31-2018, 01:12 PM   #144
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This thread wasn't about me pushing anyone to believe anything. It was a simple question to see if the non-Trump voters had any concern at all about the things we've heard about this investigation. I didn't expect them to give up on their beliefs that Trump is probably dirty or that there's probably more of a justification for the investigation than has been made public so far, but I expected at least a few of them to be a little bothered by some of the problems, or at least allegations of problems, that have been exposed.

15 years ago, many democrats had concerns over domestic spying in general without any specific indications of possible abuse. Today, on CP, we can't find a single democrat with a twinge of concern. It's amazing to me.
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Old 05-31-2018, 01:29 PM   #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
This thread wasn't about me pushing anyone to believe anything. It was a simple question to see if the non-Trump voters had any concern at all about the things we've heard about this investigation. I didn't expect them to give up on their beliefs that Trump is probably dirty or that there's probably more of a justification for the investigation than has been made public so far, but I expected at least a few of them to be a little bothered by some of the problems, or at least allegations of problems, that have been exposed.

15 years ago, many democrats had concerns over domestic spying in general without any specific indications of possible abuse. Today, on CP, we can't find a single democrat with a twinge of concern. It's amazing to me.
The problem is I haven't seen tangible proof of wrongdoing on the IC side here. I've seen Republicans who have seen the details say nothing inappropriate happened.

I've seen Trump making moves and making statements continually trying to cast doubt on the IC. I see many Trump supporters saying we essentially need to gut the IC and start over. I think all of that is extremely dangerous. That worries me much more than a single investigation and a single presidency. It can cause long term damage to our country.

If Trump is innocent, just shut up and let the investigation finish. Everything he is doing is setting up people's expectation that it was all just a govt conspiracy to take him down. He's doing irreparable harm in the process and it's all self serving, not for the betterment of the country. That's how I see it and I'm shocked that more republicans don't feel the same.
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Old 05-31-2018, 01:39 PM   #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaid View Post
The problem is I haven't seen tangible proof of wrongdoing on the IC side here. I've seen Republicans who have seen the details say nothing inappropriate happened.

I've seen Trump making moves and making statements continually trying to cast doubt on the IC. I see many Trump supporters saying we essentially need to gut the IC and start over. I think all of that is extremely dangerous. That worries me much more than a single investigation and a single presidency. It can cause long term damage to our country.

If Trump is innocent, just shut up and let the investigation finish. Everything he is doing is setting up people's expectation that it was all just a govt conspiracy to take him down. He's doing irreparable harm in the process and it's all self serving, not for the betterment of the country. That's how I see it and I'm shocked that more republicans don't feel the same.
Perhaps you could stop viewing things from a blatantly partisan position. If you did that, you'd see the folly of your position.
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Old 05-31-2018, 01:40 PM   #147
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Originally Posted by Just Passin' By View Post
Perhaps you could stop viewing things from a blatantly partisan position. If you did that, you'd see the folly of your position.
You speaking into a mirror buddy?
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Old 05-31-2018, 01:42 PM   #148
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That's how I see it and I'm shocked that more republicans don't feel the same.
So am I. I never thought I'd see Republicans attacking the IC. TDS is powerful, it seems.
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Old 05-31-2018, 01:46 PM   #149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaid View Post

If Trump is innocent, just shut up and let the investigation finish.
I find this really, really funny.

Does someone need to tell you how you should approach allegations that are made against you??
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Old 05-31-2018, 01:48 PM   #150
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TDS is powerful, it seems.

...got you by the balls.
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