Game of Thrones *Spoiler* Thread

[keg in kc]

There's been some recent confusion with the old spoiler thread, so I'm kicking off a new one for tonight's premiere. This is going to be the one for folks who've read all the books. So anything anybody might want to talk about is in bounds. Suffice to say, if you haven't read the books, you'll probably want to stay out of here until you do...

I'll bump the old spoiler-free thread shortly in case anybody's interested. For future reference the link to that one is here

[keg in kc]

I believe Lady Stoneheart is wishful thinking at this point. Either of the last two season finales would have made more sense than giving her a throwaway introduction early in season 5. That's the kind of WTF moment you end a year on. Gotta come to grips with the reality that they've most likely written her out.

[Hawk]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

TV audiences are not going to want to watch Danery's rule Mereen. Watch the Dorn ruling family make decisions. Watch an army drudge through the snow. And so on and so on. There seems to me a lot of books 4 and 5 that were great books but won't make great TV.

They have saved Lady Stoneheart, Jon Snow's possible death etc. I just don't see enough there for next year to stay in book 4 only.
I was going to do that but got talked out of it by the veteran book readers here.
Agreed. Book 6 is primed to be as good as book 3.

My wife was very intimidated by the size of these books, but I talked her into reading book 3 after watching the show the first two seasons. She loved it and couldn't help but read books 4 and 5. I printed her out the chapter list to read them together, and she enjoyed them. I re-read them at the same time using the chapter list, and I liked them a lot better that way.

But trust me there is plenty to get through one season. If you can get 2+ seasons out of book 3, you can get one season out of books 4 and 5. You're forgetting all that happens in 4 and 5:

Spoiler!

Arya becoming faceless man and killing the NW deserter and the other guy. I wonder if they will reveal her warging abilities on the show finally?

Fake Arya marries Ramsay and they move into winterfell, Theon helps her escape with help from Mance.

Cersei rules like a moron, fights with Tyrells, and lets church get an army before she splits with Jaime and gets herself arrested and has a naked walk. They also cast Maggy the Frog, so Cersei's prophecy will be shown.

Jon gets elected LC of Nw and turns down offer from stannis to be lord of winterfell. He takes off Slynt's head. He interacts with Mel and wildlings before getting himself stabbed in episode 9 or 10.

Dany has some boring parts (some of which has already been covered), but she does have to sleep with Dario, marry the other guy, and then fly off on drogon (which should be pretty bad-ass on film). Then end the season with her standing there next to Drogon facing an army of Dothraki.

Tyrion has to wander around (hopefully some with Varys so they can have some good scenes together), find out about Aegon being alive, meet up with Jorah, get enslaved, escape, and sign up with the second sons.

Aegon has to go to Westeros and take a few castles.

Dorne: introduce dornish characters, probably have pissed off sand snakes fight with Prince Doran about avenging Oberyn, then have some version of the revolt where they try to crown Myrcella, and maybe have the son go to Dany and die freeing the dragons.

Iron Islands: Have to kill off Balon Greyjoy, have a kingssmoot, see the dragon horn and meet Euron and Victarion and send Victarion off to Mereen with the fleet.

Sam has to leave with Gilly and Maester Aemon and sail to Westeros to the Citadel. Jaqen Hagar at the Citadel in disguise with a key to every door?

Lady Stoneheart! Band of bros. Jaime and Brienne.

Stannis has to take Deepwood motte and march to winterfell.

Mel has to burn Mance, then send him to winterfell to save Arya, and also deal with wildlings and Jon, etc.

Sansa and Littlefinger?

Rickon and Osha?

Davos to Skagos?

Bran and Meera and bloodraven and children of forest?

etc. etc.

There is more than enough to get through next season and still keep it interesting, though some characters won't get as much screen time. This is where the story is at its widest. book 6 will hopefully start pulling it all together instead of continuing to expand it.

[raybec 4]

Originally Posted by keg in kc

I believe Lady Stoneheart is wishful thinking at this point. Either of the last two season finales would have made more sense than giving her a throwaway introduction early in season 5. That's the kind of WTF moment you end a year on. Gotta come to grips with the reality that they've most likely written her out.

I hope you're wrong, that's apivotal point in the Brienne story that shouldn't be glossed over.

[Third Eye]

Originally Posted by keg in kc

I believe Lady Stoneheart is wishful thinking at this point. Either of the last two season finales would have made more sense than giving her a throwaway introduction early in season 5. That's the kind of WTF moment you end a year on. Gotta come to grips with the reality that they've most likely written her out.

Unfortunately, I'm of the same opinion. The logistics just don't make much sense now. If she were to be included, Michelle Fairley would be spotted once filming resumes. You just can't keep that stuff secret anymore. As somebody suggested earlier in the thread, it would have been easy to film a brief scene while they were shooting season 3 and then sit on it for a year, but that obviously didn't happen. Oh well, hoping we are wrong.

[NewChief]

Originally Posted by keg in kc

I believe Lady Stoneheart is wishful thinking at this point. Either of the last two season finales would have made more sense than giving her a throwaway introduction early in season 5. That's the kind of WTF moment you end a year on. Gotta come to grips with the reality that they've most likely written her out.

May have already been posted, but these quotes kind of back up what you're saying:
http://www.salon.com/2014/06/16/game...art_situation/

Though the “Game of Thrones” season four finale may have satiated viewers, many fans devoted to George R.R. Martin’s book series, “A Song of Ice and Fire” were left unsatisfied, even angry, by the glaring omission of Lady Stoneheart. For those not familiar with the books, Lady Stoneheart is the undead Lady Catelyn Stark, a zombie who first appears in Martin’s third “Ice and Fire” installment, “A Storm of Swords.”

Although fans of the books had expected to see Stoneheart in the finale, director Alex Graves told EW that her resurrection “was never on the docket to do this season — ever.”

“It’s a great question, because it’s all I asked about last year when I was doing [the episode with Brotherhood Without Banners leader] Beric Dondarrion — who ultimately is the person who finds Catelyn and turns her into Lady Stoneheart,” he said. “But no, they didn’t do it. It was never on the docket to do this season — ever.”

Lady Stoneheart’s story arc didn’t add to the increasingly complex plot-line, he explained:


“They [showrunners David Benioff and Dan Weiss] have such a challenge adapting the books into a really focused television experience. It’s very hard, it’s very complicated, it’s much harder then they’ve been given credit for, I think — and they do a brilliant job. But to bring back Michelle Fairley, one of the greatest actresses around, to be a zombie for a little while — and just kill people? It is really sort of, what are we doing with that? How does it play into the whole story in a way that we’re really going to like? It just didn’t end up being a part of what was going to happen this season. And finally one [more] reason: In case you didn’t notice, a lot happens this season … To add that in is something they opted out of. But what’s funny is that it was never going to be in the season, yet it took off on the Internet like it was going to happen.”

So will book nerds be blessed by Lady Stoneheart’s vengeful presence next season? “I have no idea,” Graves admitted. “They won’t tell me. They’re very good at being secretive.”

The bolded part is pretty dismissive of the Lady Stoneheart plot as a whole.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by keg in kc

I believe Lady Stoneheart is wishful thinking at this point. Either of the last two season finales would have made more sense than giving her a throwaway introduction early in season 5. That's the kind of WTF moment you end a year on. Gotta come to grips with the reality that they've most likely written her out.

It's just too good of a WTF moment for the producers and HBO to pass up. Especially when the viewers are going to expect surprises next year. Not a lot of those in book 4 and 5 compared to last year.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by Hawk

But trust me there is plenty to get through one season. If you can get 2+ seasons out of book 3, you can get one season out of books 4 and 5. You're forgetting all that happens in 4 and 5:

Spoiler!

Arya becoming faceless man and killing the NW deserter and the other guy. I wonder if they will reveal her warging abilities on the show finally?

Fake Arya marries Ramsay and they move into winterfell, Theon helps her escape with help from Mance.

Cersei rules like a moron, fights with Tyrells, and lets church get an army before she splits with Jaime and gets herself arrested and has a naked walk. They also cast Maggy the Frog, so Cersei's prophecy will be shown.

Jon gets elected LC of Nw and turns down offer from stannis to be lord of winterfell. He takes off Slynt's head. He interacts with Mel and wildlings before getting himself stabbed in episode 9 or 10.

Dany has some boring parts (some of which has already been covered), but she does have to sleep with Dario, marry the other guy, and then fly off on drogon (which should be pretty bad-ass on film). Then end the season with her standing there next to Drogon facing an army of Dothraki.

Tyrion has to wander around (hopefully some with Varys so they can have some good scenes together), find out about Aegon being alive, meet up with Jorah, get enslaved, escape, and sign up with the second sons.

Aegon has to go to Westeros and take a few castles.

Dorne: introduce dornish characters, probably have pissed off sand snakes fight with Prince Doran about avenging Oberyn, then have some version of the revolt where they try to crown Myrcella, and maybe have the son go to Dany and die freeing the dragons.

Iron Islands: Have to kill off Balon Greyjoy, have a kingssmoot, see the dragon horn and meet Euron and Victarion and send Victarion off to Mereen with the fleet.

Sam has to leave with Gilly and Maester Aemon and sail to Westeros to the Citadel. Jaqen Hagar at the Citadel in disguise with a key to every door?

Lady Stoneheart! Band of bros. Jaime and Brienne.

Stannis has to take Deepwood motte and march to winterfell.

Mel has to burn Mance, then send him to winterfell to save Arya, and also deal with wildlings and Jon, etc.

Sansa and Littlefinger?

Rickon and Osha?

Davos to Skagos?

Bran and Meera and bloodraven and children of forest?

etc. etc.

There is more than enough to get through next season and still keep it interesting, though some characters won't get as much screen time. This is where the story is at its widest. book 6 will hopefully start pulling it all together instead of continuing to expand it.

I agree. I thought my point was that I don't think book 4 has enough in it for a whole season. The bar has been raised by the Red wedding episode and then all the fantastic book material to use this season. TV audiences are fickle. But, it is HBO they have not tied their success to Nielson ratings.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by NewChief

May have already been posted, but these quotes kind of back up what you're saying:
http://www.salon.com/2014/06/16/game...art_situation/


The bolded part is pretty dismissive of the Lady Stoneheart plot as a whole.

I read that as it wasn't planned for this year. Not, that its NEVER going to be a part of the show.

[Gravedigger]

The problem is now they spoil the books if they do something AND if they don't do something. The fact that Coldhands isn't in the show means to me that his character isn't that important coming up. Same with Jojen, they killed him on the show, so I bet he bites it pretty quickly on into book six. Everything they've done different from the book shows you what is coming. If they cut Stoneheart out of the show, it means to me that she doesn't really serve a purpose besides being a mute zombie who kills Freys. Martin's publisher must want to kill him.

[raybec 4]

Originally Posted by Gravedigger

The problem is now they spoil the books if they do something AND if they don't do something. The fact that Coldhands isn't in the show means to me that his character isn't that important coming up. Same with Jojen, they killed him on the show, so I bet he bites it pretty quickly on into book six. Everything they've done different from the book shows you what is coming. If they cut Stoneheart out of the show, it means to me that she doesn't really serve a purpose besides being a mute zombie who kills Freys. Martin's publisher must want to kill him.

I don't think he'll need to follow a parallel path with the show. I get the impression he's going to do his own thing no matter what the show does.

[NewChief]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

I read that as it wasn't planned for this year. Not, that its NEVER going to be a part of the show.

Yeah. But he's kind of dismissive of the whole idea as if the writers weren't fans of the whole Lady StoneheArt plot line.

[MagicHef]

Originally Posted by Gravedigger

The problem is now they spoil the books if they do something AND if they don't do something. The fact that Coldhands isn't in the show means to me that his character isn't that important coming up. Same with Jojen, they killed him on the show, so I bet he bites it pretty quickly on into book six. Everything they've done different from the book shows you what is coming. If they cut Stoneheart out of the show, it means to me that she doesn't really serve a purpose besides being a mute zombie who kills Freys. Martin's publisher must want to kill him.

I don't think that's necessarily true. In the show, Mago died of acute lack of throat in season 1, but we know he's going to be in TWOW.

Also, importance is relative. I'd say Jojen and Meera are important, but if they were determined to be undoable for the show, it's possible to tell nearly the same story without them.

[MagicHef]

Originally Posted by NewChief

Yeah. But he's kind of dismissive of the whole idea as if the writers weren't fans of the whole Lady StoneheArt plot line.

Apparently she can't come back to kill people because she's a really good actress.

[raybec 4]

Originally Posted by MagicHef

Apparently she can't come back to kill people because she's a really good actress.

I can't recall her in anything other than GOT but I'm sure she's very busy.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by raybec 4

I can't recall her in anything other than GOT but I'm sure she's very busy.

She's currently playing the lead bad terrorist in 24.