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Old 11-19-2012, 07:50 PM  
Chocolate Hog Chocolate Hog is offline
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Liberals on the board: Why is this guy wrong?

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Old 11-22-2012, 06:59 AM   #106
mlyonsd mlyonsd is offline
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Originally Posted by JonesCrusher View Post
The problem most have with the Warren quote is that it implies that businesses currently pay nothing and it is time to start fulfilling their social contract. What should have been said is thank you for the roads we drive on but we kinda blew a shitload of money on waste and fraud and if we are going to keep this bottomless bucket of money mentality we will need a few more dollars please.
Nailed it.
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Old 11-22-2012, 07:37 AM   #107
patteeu patteeu is offline
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Originally Posted by Mr. Kotter View Post
Are you serious....SS "progressive?" Lower income people get more as a percentage of contributions, of course; the REAL issue is ability to pay, and percentage of income contributed, which is why the current set-up is big time regressive (benefitting those with higher incomes more.)
No, that's not the real issue. The real issue is what does the program look like from a comprehensive pov. That's tough to do with the general fund taxes and discretionary spending because it's hard to apportion benefits, but it's not tough to do with SS.

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Originally Posted by Mr. Kotter View Post
The reason for making Medicare/SS into a social welfare program is expectations of current Americans--it already is, and politically it simply is NOT possible at this point to pull that rug out from under the majority of Americans.
That's evidence that I'm right not that I'm wrong. To the extent that some people already see it as welfare (and from my pov, your assessment is seriously overblown), it's because the solvency fix that took place under Reagan has already pushed it in that direction. The next round of solvency fixes will push the program even further down the road and erode even more of it's support.

I completely agree that it's not possible to pull the rug out from under some Americans (the ones who are at or near retirement age and have based their financial plans on it's availability).

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Originally Posted by Mr. Kotter View Post
I tried to toss you some bones....means testing, raising retirement ages, allowing for more working income, but....surprise, surprise....you opted the reverse class-warfare model expoused by plutocrats. I'm shocked.
You're not shocked, you're just dumb. I neither embraced nor rejected your bones. I've been talking about the degree of progressivity/regressivity in the system and what the likely impact of making these programs solvent through some of the means you've described will be.
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Old 11-22-2012, 08:08 AM   #108
gonefishin53 gonefishin53 is offline
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So who builds the roads and feeds the children when the U.S. goes bankrupt because of unsustainable levels of government power and spending authority?
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Old 11-22-2012, 10:12 AM   #109
tiptap tiptap is offline
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Marginal Capitalism. You have to provide a universal level of the necessities: food, water, education and health to a population. Money/ownership is not paramount and the source for an economy. People are. No people, no economy. And when you insist upon one manner of economy and value you are wedded to an ideology whatever that ideology is. And no single ideology can correctly cover all situations.
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Old 11-22-2012, 10:44 AM   #110
mlyonsd mlyonsd is offline
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Originally Posted by gonefishin53 View Post
So who builds the roads and feeds the children when the U.S. goes bankrupt because of unsustainable levels of government power and spending authority?
That's plan B. Storm all the rich folk's mansions and raid their refrigerators.
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Old 11-22-2012, 02:37 PM   #111
CoMoChief CoMoChief is offline
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Originally Posted by J Diddy View Post
and if they're stupid and have no money to educate?
Not anyone's problem but their own.
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Old 11-23-2012, 12:05 PM   #112
ROYC75 ROYC75 is offline
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Originally Posted by gonefishin53 View Post
So who builds the roads and feeds the children when the U.S. goes bankrupt because of unsustainable levels of government power and spending authority?
Liberal response would be , Uh, the road builders and farmers. We will tax you more,tax and spend is all we do.
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