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Old 12-05-2008, 11:38 AM  
Braincase Braincase is offline
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Joe Satriani Sues Coldplay for Plagiarism

http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/160...coldplay.jhtml

Dec 5 2008 9:27 AM EST
Coldplay Sued By Joe Satriani For Allegedly Plagiarizing 'Viva La Vida' Melody

Guitarist claims the Grammy-nominated song is a rip-off of his track 'If I Could Fly.'

By Gil Kaufman




Not long after Coldplay's Viva la Vida album hit shelves this summer, the blogosphere exploded with suggestions that the title track bore a striking resemblance to a 2004 instrumental track by rock guitarist Joe Satriani titled "If I Could Fly."
Now, Satriani has accused the band of copyright infringement in a lawsuit filed on Thursday in Los Angeles federal court, according to a Reuters report.
A day after the Coldplay album was nominated for seven Grammys, including Record and Song of the Year for "Viva la Vida," Satriani's suit claims that "Viva" incorporates "substantial original portions" of his track "If I Could Fly," from the Is There Love in Space? album.


Satriani, 52, is seeking a jury trial in the dispute, as well as damages and "any and all profits" attributable to the alleged copyright infringement. The songwriting credit on the Coldplay song is attributed to the band's four members: singer Chris Martin, bass player Guy Berryman, guitarist Jonny Buckland and drummer Will Champion. A spokesperson for Coldplay could not be reached for comment at press time.
Satriani isn't the only artist who has claimed the Coldplay song was eerily familiar. Around the time of the album's release, a lesser-known New York band named Creaky Boards claimed that Martin had attended one of their gigs and would have heard the tune "The Songs I Didn't Write," which also bears a similar melody. At the time, Coldplay's spokespeople denied that Martin was at the gig and said the band had written "Viva" several months before that show.


Here's a nice link to a youtube comparison of the two songs.


Based on my observation, Coldplay better get their checkbook out.
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Old 12-05-2008, 03:58 PM   #31
DaneMcCloud DaneMcCloud is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RaiderH8r View Post
That part...right there is exactly why Coldplay will be cutting checks to Satriani.

Yeah, the cord progression is pretty basic and if they were the same then that would be it. But because of the structure, tempo, melody being the f'ing same it's a rip job and Coldplay's sucktitude continues to be confirmed.

I'm pretty sure Vanilla Ice ended up cutting a check to Queen for about 7 notes in Ice Ice Baby as well.
Well in reality, it's the copyright assignment and back royalties. Any further royalties due after the settlement would defer to the new copyright splits (50/50, 40/60 or whatever).

No money will come out of Coldplay's pocket. The music publisher will owe Satriani his back royalties if the judgment is made in his favor. The music publisher at that point would make a financial adjustment to Coldplay's co-publishing account in the amount of back royalties due to Satriani.

Regarding Vanilla Ice, he "sampled" the David Bowie/Freddie Mercury song. Before ANY royalties can be paid (mechanical, performance or sync), the song splits must be agreed upon by all interested parties (in this case, Bowie, Mercury and "Ice").
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Old 12-05-2008, 06:37 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud View Post
Huey Lewis won a similar case in the 1980's. The "Ghostbuster's Theme" was deemed a copy of "I Want a New Drug" and Lewis was awarded royalties and copyrights and IMO, Satriani has a stronger case.

Again, I'd be absolutely SHOCKED if Satriani weren't granted 50% of the copyrights to the Coldplay song.


I think Satriani's case is considerably less valid than Huey Lewis,' but I should say that my opinion is that neither case should (should have) been held up. There are only 12 notes in all of western music. There are only 6 practical and common chords to use in any given key. Of all the millions of songs written every year, you just can't make any completely original pop song anymore. That's not to say that if it's obvious that somebody is just re-writing somebody else's songs that they shouldn't have to split royalties. But I don't think this is a Dane Cook situation here. This is coincidental, and all you do is lower the bar for music everywhere when you make musicians comb the entire history of music to see if they're allowed to publish a song they wrote in good faith. Lets not forget that George Harrison was also sued for the same thing. You'd have to be smoking crack to think that George Harrison is ripping people off.
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Old 12-05-2008, 08:18 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcan View Post
I think Satriani's case is considerably less valid than Huey Lewis,' but I should say that my opinion is that neither case should (should have) been held up. There are only 12 notes in all of western music. There are only 6 practical and common chords to use in any given key. Of all the millions of songs written every year, you just can't make any completely original pop song anymore. That's not to say that if it's obvious that somebody is just re-writing somebody else's songs that they shouldn't have to split royalties. But I don't think this is a Dane Cook situation here. This is coincidental, and all you do is lower the bar for music everywhere when you make musicians comb the entire history of music to see if they're allowed to publish a song they wrote in good faith. Lets not forget that George Harrison was also sued for the same thing. You'd have to be smoking crack to think that George Harrison is ripping people off.
If you can't hear or understand these facts, then your opinion is absolutely invalid:

1. Joe Satriani is known worldwide and has sold ten of millions of records.
2. Satriani's song was released four years prior to Coldplay's.
3. The main melody is identical.
4. The key of the song is identical
5. The arrangement is nearly identical
6. The tempo is exactly the same.
7. The simple fact that you can lay one song over the other and they're in perfect time and pitch is an excellent indicator of plagiarism.

Again, the Letter of the Law states "Lyric and Melody". Lyric being 50% and Melody being 50%. There is no statute for chord progressions or percussion or production or anything else. Lyric & Melody.

In my professional opinion (backed up by nearly 40 years in the music business, more than a decade spent in music publishing including copyrights, royalties, business affairs and creative), Joe Satriani deserves his day in court.

PERIOD.

And as far as originality is concerned, if you don't think that original and creative music is being recorded everyday across the globe, you're either not exposed or you just have absolutely no clue as to what you're talking about.
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Old 12-05-2008, 08:43 PM   #34
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I interrupt this debate with Satriani news....

http://www.thequake1021.com/modules....ticle&sid=1221
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Old 12-05-2008, 09:04 PM   #35
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I'd say Joe's gonna get paid. Way too similar to be an accident...
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Old 12-05-2008, 09:13 PM   #36
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While we're on this subject, what the hell is up with Kid Rock using "Werewolves of London" to sing about "Sweet Home Alabama"? I'm a bit confused:

Kid Rock
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwIGZLjugKA

Warren Zevon
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhSc8qVMjKM

Skynrd's Sweet Home Alabama (which actually sounds like "Werewolves" if you remove parts of the guitar)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=huLklsj_5HI
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Old 12-05-2008, 09:20 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Mark M View Post
so once I saw this earlier today, it was nice to learn I wasn't nuts.
Aside from the fact that apparently you listen to this guy....



Notice the sparkly shirt... AWESOME!
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Old 12-06-2008, 01:46 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bowser View Post
I interrupt this debate with Satriani news....

http://www.thequake1021.com/modules....ticle&sid=1221
that may be intriguing.
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Old 12-06-2008, 02:55 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud View Post
If you can't hear or understand these facts, then your opinion is absolutely invalid:

1. Joe Satriani is known worldwide and has sold ten of millions of records.
2. Satriani's song was released four years prior to Coldplay's.
3. The main melody is identical.
4. The key of the song is identical
5. The arrangement is nearly identical
6. The tempo is exactly the same.
7. The simple fact that you can lay one song over the other and they're in perfect time and pitch is an excellent indicator of plagiarism.

Again, the Letter of the Law states "Lyric and Melody". Lyric being 50% and Melody being 50%. There is no statute for chord progressions or percussion or production or anything else. Lyric & Melody.

In my professional opinion (backed up by nearly 40 years in the music business, more than a decade spent in music publishing including copyrights, royalties, business affairs and creative), Joe Satriani deserves his day in court.

PERIOD.

And as far as originality is concerned, if you don't think that original and creative music is being recorded everyday across the globe, you're either not exposed or you just have absolutely no clue as to what you're talking about.
Man. You really like to win, don't you? If Joe thinks that Alvin and the Chipmunks stole something from him, then he deserves his day in court. I'm offering my opinion here. Now, of course, my opinion DOES have merit, despite what you say. Yours does too. If you think the songs are too close then Satriani might want you to be the judge in this case. But I'm not backtracking on my opinion just because you disagree man. So, lets take your argument. Line by line.

1. I know who the guy is. I know he's popular. But that's not exactly relevant.
2. Obviously his song came out first. If it hadn't then this would all be a really dumb argument.
3. The main melody is NOT identical. It contains the same first three notes, and then it is completely different. Further, each song doesn't even have consistent "endings" to the phrase. Each time through the changes, both songs vary what they do over the G and Emin chords. But since the first three notes are the hook for both songs, that's what the listener's ear latches onto.
4. The key of the song IS identical. That's true. But, news flash. There are only 12 keys. Of those keys only 8 of them get used on a regular basis. That includes EVERY song that has been written in the western hemisphere that any human has ever heard. The key of G (these songs) is probably the tied for the most popular key with the key of C.
5. The arrangement isn't just "nearly" identical. It's exactly identical. It's a four chord progression that's been used since the invention of the piano on zillions of songs. (IV-V-I-vi) in the key of G. But if we outlawed anybody else to play any progressions that have been played before... We need to stop making music right now.
6. The tempo is most certainly not the same. The "Meshup" was doctored so that you could hear the two songs together. Satriani's tune is about 15 BPM slower at 128 BMP on average. Coldplays is significantly faster at 142. Both would be considered pretty up-tempo tunes, even for rock. But if you played the two cds together you're not going to get anything like that youtube vid.
7. Your last point only proves that when you take two songs of the same key and slow one down to make it the same tempo as the other, that they will sound good together. Well, that's the whole point of a key! It's so that I can play in the same key as somebody else and always harmonize with them. These are two songs that have the same chord progression and the same first three notes in the melody. That happens a lot, as I tried to show below. But you just don't want to hear my opinion, and for some reason want to bash my reasons and appeal to your authority on the subject. I'm just talking about the songs.
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Old 12-06-2008, 03:12 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by mcan View Post
Man. You really like to win, don't you?
Win?

Please list your music publishing and copyright credentials.

Then, we'll have a proper discussion.

Otherwise, you're just spewing a bunch of worthless nonsense.
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Old 12-06-2008, 09:20 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by chief103182 View Post
While we're on this subject, what the hell is up with Kid Rock using "Werewolves of London" to sing about "Sweet Home Alabama"? I'm a bit confused:
He's not singing 'about' Sweet home Alabama. The song refers to a time of his youth in northern Michigan.
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Old 12-06-2008, 09:41 AM   #42
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He's not singing 'about' Sweet home Alabama. The song refers to a time of his youth in northern Michigan.
Yes, I got that. Godawful song. I was talking about the line "singing Sweet Home Alabama all summer long". I thought it was a tribute song or something.
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Old 12-06-2008, 10:26 AM   #43
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Coldplay will be cutting some checks to Satriani over this.
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Old 12-06-2008, 12:12 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by mcan View Post
I think Joe's a much better musician, and I really could care less about Coldplay. I don't listen to much modern stuff. But you're not really making an argument here man. Lyric and melody... Joe's stuff doesn't have any lyrics. Coldplay's melody is only the same for three notes. Of course, they're the hook notes and they're repeated over and over again, so you're going to latch onto those. But, I've just given two other examples where those same three notes are used in a similar fashion. As I was instructed to do.

Admittedly, I'm having trouble finding a 3rd or 4th. I've found plenty of songs that have the same progression, but none that use those exact three notes in the same spot. But I think the point is pretty clear that it's common enough that Joe shouldn't think he's got a patent on it.


You can't make it any more clear than you did. Coldplay should hire you. If I was on the jury, I'd vote in favor of Coldplay after what you just posted.
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Old 12-06-2008, 12:14 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud View Post
Given Braincase's example, Joe Satriani ABSOLUTELY has a case. Not only can you lie the songs over each other to hear the similarities, they're the same exact tempo and same exact structure. Chris Martin's melody is a near perfect match for Satriani's guitar line.

There's nothing original about a 4/4 tempo... And, for that matter, apparently that melody.
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