The Dark Knight Rises *Spoilers* Thread

[mdchiefsfan]

For anyone who has seen the movie and wants to discuss it.

[Chiefspants]

Originally Posted by Wallcrawler

This whole movie left a bad taste in my mouth. Its clearly not aimed toward people who know the characters very well unless we're addressing the stupid twist that exploited people's knowledge of the books in order to get the twist over. Nice douche....nice.

To trash the origin of Bane so thoroughly, and for the sake of a ridiculous twist to reveal Talia Al Ghul in an equally horrific trashing of book version is just ridiculous to me. You take Bane, arguably the most vicious and cerebral enemy Batman has ever known and try to turn him into a sympathetic character at the end? Just your regular run of the mill pit prisoner who got a frosty smooth beatdown for protecting a child? Lame.

Why the hell does hothead cop know who Batman is? Its never explained, its just dropped in our lap. You. Youre Batman. Why did you wear the mask? So dumb. Then later to actually make his birth name "Robin" was just too much.

Talia's turn and entire role in the plot was asinine. She's in love with Bruce in the books, saved his life on more than one occaision and even had his kid. So why she was chosen to lead the "Nuke Gotham City" plan, I have no idea. Her character being in this film made about as much as Gwen Stacy in Spider-Man 3. Something about the third movie in a trilogy that brings out the WTF moments I guess.

The Bane fights were way too Rocky 3 for me. First fight is a no contest beatdown, we get a nod to the breaking, but not the actual breaking of the Bat. Then you dangle from a rope for a few months and boom. Spine realigned, a few crunches, pushups, and chinups later, we're ready to go back and for some reason now youre able to just take Bane to the cleaners. Oh, and how Bane didnt become pink mist when shot by the Batpod when we saw it take down an entire wall of crushed cars is quite beyond my comprehension.

The ending bugs me as well. Its like Nolan either didnt know what he wanted to do with it, or he wanted to just leave it open for interpretation, or try to please both the unhappy ending seekers as well as happy ending seekers, you just cant try to apply any logic to it or it all falls apart.

We assume that Batman is killed flying the bomb out over the bay. He says there's no auto pilot. We see Batman give that long stare into the camera and then boom. Okay, Bats is toast but he saved Gotham. Kind of a bummer, but we'll roll with it. Funeral, Alfred sobbing, Wayne's will being executed, the works. If it just stopped here, with "Robin" finding the cave it wouldve been fine.

But wait!

A dejected Fox talks to the techs to see what he couldve done to help with the Auto Pilot. Tech says that it was patched six months earlier by Bruce Wayne. Cut to Alfred in Florence and he sees Bruce and Selina.

So, is Alfred imagining Bruce and Selina? It is much better for Nolan's sake if he is. It insults our intelligence far less. But the majority say no no, Bruce fixed the auto pilot, he got out. And he didnt say anything to Alfred because it was just like in Alfred's fantasy where they would say nothing to each other but they would both know that he'd made it.

Well, then this brings to mind a quote from one of my favorite books, Misery, by Stephen King.


quote Annie Wilkes

They also called them serials. I'm not stupid ya know... Anyway, my favourite was Rocketman, and once it was a no brakes chapter. The bad guy stuck him in a car on a mountain road and knocked him out and welded the door shut and tore out the brakes and started him to his death, and he woke up and tried to steer and tried to get out but the car went off a cliff before he could escape! And it crashed and burned and I was so upset and excited, and the next week, you better believe I was first in line. And they always start with the end of the last week. And there was Rocketman, trying to get out, and here comes the cliff, and just before the car went off the cliff, he jumped free! And all the kids cheered! But I didn't cheer. I stood right up and started shouting. This isn't what happened last week! Have you all got amnesia? They just cheated us! This isn't fair! HE DID'NT GET OUT OF THE *bleep* - A - DOODIE CAR!


So what if Bruce fixed the auto pilot? He never got out. We watch the Bat fly right out over the ice (if you fall in, youre dead in minutes) and explode. And even if we, the viewers didnt see it, are we meant to believe that if Bruce got out of that thing before it blew, that NOBODY watching it fly out there saw anything? Weak.


You also mean to tell me that after that little bitch Selina Kyle trapped Bruce with Bane for him to get utterly destroyed that the actual Batman of comic lore would give two shits about her from then on is completely ridiculous. Theres no way he would take that shit, let alone run off to Florence with her. Its insulting.

The entire idea that Bruce just up and says "Peace, Im out" at all is just ludicrous. Its the main reason the death, while more of a downer is far more believable.

Ive got so many issues with this film I cant even list them all for fear of carpel tunnel. Pretty disappointed with it in general.


TDK>Begins>Rises

Your disappointment about the movie's deviation from the comics seems to be driving the majority of your criticism. It's well established that this is Nolan's world, and no one should have been surprised or dismayed by this after Begins and The Dark Knight.

[Wallcrawler]

Originally Posted by JD10367

Lois Lane is a major character in the Superman world. Talia is not a major character in the Batman world unless you're a comics nerd. People know Batman, Robin, the Joker, the Penguin, and Catwoman. And even those characters have been tinkered with (hell, in the first Burton film he made Joker the killer of Batman's parents). This is not a literal translation; it's the third chapter in the Nolan/Bane world. He simply needed a twist in his film, and she served that purpose.

Okay, you. You just used a Tim Burton Batman film as a way to try to make your point that artistic license should not be questioned. Your credibility is flushed, and this conversation is over.

Screw "Anyone who knows me knows I would never read a comic book" Tim Burton.

[Deberg_1990]

Originally Posted by Wallcrawler

Okay, you. You just used a Tim Burton Batman film as a way to try to make your point that artistic license should not be questioned. Your credibility is flushed, and this conversation is over.

Screw "Anyone who knows me knows I would never read a comic book" Tim Burton.

[Wallcrawler]

Originally Posted by Chiefspants

Your disappointment about the movie's deviation from the comics seems to be driving the majority of your criticism. It's well established that this is Nolan's world, and no one should have been surprised or dismayed by this after Begins and The Dark Knight.

Just because this is Nolan's vision of the Batman universe should not give him the right to just hack out and completely change characters that fans (what should be his target audience) have known for years. You can put your own mark on a film and tell your story in a unique way without slapping a name from the books on one of your characters you dreamed up and trying to pass them off as the same person.

Miranda Tate should have stayed Miranda Tate, because that damn sure was not Talia Al Ghul.

While I understand that to maintain the realistic, grounded look, concessions had to be made with Bane's appearance, there was absolutely ZERO excuse to destroy his origin of growing up in the pit and becoming what he was, other than just doing it so he could get that hack Talia twist over. No mention of Venom at all, yet we are to believe that he can punch through a concrete pillar without any problems. Excommunicated by Ra's Al Ghul. I nearly pissed myself laughing at that. Ra's Al Ghul found him to be a more worthy successor than Batman, who he had coveted for years.

Im trying to understand why someone who is making a film based on such long standing, and high quality source material would go out of his way to make fans of this material sit wide eyed in a WTF moment.


Talia is on the same level of not even close as Wolverine and Sabretooth being brothers in X MEN Origins, and The Sandman as Uncle Ben's Killer in Spider-Man 3.

I guess its just too hard to take material that's already written and proven to be awesome and put in on the big screen, even for Christopher Nolan.

[Micjones]

Originally Posted by Wallcrawler

This whole movie left a bad taste in my mouth. Its clearly not aimed toward people who know the characters very well...

I think that's the point.
They want these films to touch the broadest base of people possible.
Fanboys are a minority.
Most people won't have an intimate knowledge of the source material.

[Mr. Plow]

Originally Posted by Wallcrawler

Just because this is Nolan's vision of the Batman universe should not give him the right to just hack out and completely change characters that fans (what should be his target audience) have known for years. You can put your own mark on a film and tell your story in a unique way without slapping a name from the books on one of your characters you dreamed up and trying to pass them off as the same person.

Miranda Tate should have stayed Miranda Tate, because that damn sure was not Talia Al Ghul.

While I understand that to maintain the realistic, grounded look, concessions had to be made with Bane's appearance, there was absolutely ZERO excuse to destroy his origin of growing up in the pit and becoming what he was, other than just doing it so he could get that hack Talia twist over. No mention of Venom at all, yet we are to believe that he can punch through a concrete pillar without any problems. Excommunicated by Ra's Al Ghul. I nearly pissed myself laughing at that. Ra's Al Ghul found him to be a more worthy successor than Batman, who he had coveted for years.

Im trying to understand why someone who is making a film based on such long standing, and high quality source material would go out of his way to make fans of this material sit wide eyed in a WTF moment.


Talia is on the same level of not even close as Wolverine and Sabretooth being brothers in X MEN Origins, and The Sandman as Uncle Ben's Killer in Spider-Man 3.

I guess its just too hard to take material that's already written and proven to be awesome and put in on the big screen, even for Christopher Nolan.

[Deberg_1990]

Originally Posted by Micjones

I think that's the point.
They want these films to touch the broadest base of people possible.
Fanboys are a minority.
Most people won't have an intimate knowledge of the source material.

This.....X1000 this

For instance, i love comic book characters and this current run we are in of the comic book movies. BUt i dont read comic books or graphic novels so i cant say i know these side characters all that well if at all.

Movies and books are two completely different mediums. Movie creators change original source material all the time, this is nothing new.

Question for comic book fans: If you watched the first two Nolan Batman films, did you think he was gonna suddenly change direction and make something more comic book pure?

[ThaVirus]

Like pretty much everyone else is saying, its easier to enjoy these films as a reimagining of the world of Batman than a completely loyal to the comics installation.

I personally won't complain about any of the characters he introduced in his world. He took some borderline ridiculous, seriously campy villains and grounded them in reality as much as possible. Did anyone really want to see a Bane similar to the one from the comics? We already saw that and that movie blew.

[Fish]

Anybody else feel this way too?

[OnTheWarpath15]

Originally Posted by KC Fish

Anybody else feel this way too?

Yes.

Turned to my wife Friday night after the plane scene and said, "I'll take famous titties for $1000, Alex".

Seemed to tone down a bit after the first hour, maybe I was just getting used to it.

[mikeyis4dcats.]

I thought his voice sounded like Liam Neeson impersonating Sean Connery.


But I've also hated Bale's Batman voice since day 1.

[Deberg_1990]

Originally Posted by mikeyis4dcats.

But I've also hated Bale's Batman voice since day 1.

now thats something they have tinkered with over the 3 films. I watched the first one last night and it was hardly tinerked with at all. When he was Batman, it sounded just like Bale. The last one was waay overdone. This one they toned it back down again.

[Reaper16]

I had to hold back laughter the first few times that Batman spoke in TDKR because all I could think about was Dany Pudi's perfect impersonation of that voice on Community, whenever Abed is pretending to be Batman.

[Jawshco]

Originally Posted by Wallcrawler

Just because this is Nolan's vision of the Batman universe should not give him the right to just hack out and completely change characters that fans (what should be his target audience) have known for years. You can put your own mark on a film and tell your story in a unique way without slapping a name from the books on one of your characters you dreamed up and trying to pass them off as the same person.

Miranda Tate should have stayed Miranda Tate, because that damn sure was not Talia Al Ghul.

While I understand that to maintain the realistic, grounded look, concessions had to be made with Bane's appearance, there was absolutely ZERO excuse to destroy his origin of growing up in the pit and becoming what he was, other than just doing it so he could get that hack Talia twist over. No mention of Venom at all, yet we are to believe that he can punch through a concrete pillar without any problems. Excommunicated by Ra's Al Ghul. I nearly pissed myself laughing at that. Ra's Al Ghul found him to be a more worthy successor than Batman, who he had coveted for years.

Im trying to understand why someone who is making a film based on such long standing, and high quality source material would go out of his way to make fans of this material sit wide eyed in a WTF moment.


Talia is on the same level of not even close as Wolverine and Sabretooth being brothers in X MEN Origins, and The Sandman as Uncle Ben's Killer in Spider-Man 3.

I guess its just too hard to take material that's already written and proven to be awesome and put in on the big screen, even for Christopher Nolan.

How much do you hate the new reboot of the DC universe where most of the backstories we love no longer happened in those comics? It sounds like Marvel is gearing up to do a similar fleecing of it's characters histories as well.

There are going to be MANY different takes on any comic characters origin and backstories. I take these movies the same way I take the Frank Miller, All-Star Batman & Robin series. It's not canon (not that anything is anymore), but it's very entertaining series despite the obvious flaws. (Would have loved to hear Bale say that he's the 'Goddamned Batman' at least once in that voice).

I agree that this last movie isn't the best one of the series, but if expect a better made comic film series than this, you're going to be waiting a long time. Nothing else comes close IMO.

[DBOSHO]

Originally Posted by Deberg_1990

now thats something they have tinkered with over the 3 films. I watched the first one last night and it was hardly tinerked with at all. When he was Batman, it sounded just like Bale. The last one was waay overdone. This one they toned it back down again.

Especially when he was asking bane where the trigger was in the end. It was baddddd.