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Old 01-03-2017, 12:25 AM  
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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QB Impressions

First glances at several QBs we're going to give a shit about over the next four months. Feel free to set me straight.

DeShone Kizer, Notre Dame
6'4", 230 lbs
26-9 TD-INT, 59%, 2925 passing yards

I get a Cutlerian vibe from this guy. Seems to be built like a franchise QB. Powerful arm, some beautiful passes, perfect bodytype. But he is lacking an "it" factor, is he not? He's not a world-beating, overcome-the-odds, particularly spiriting QB. Looks like he could have an okay career in the NFL in which he wins nothing of consequence.

Mitch Trubisky, North Carolina
6'3", 220 lbs
30-6 TD-INT, 69%, 3748 passing yards

Well if there was one Andy Reid QB in this entire draft, it's Trubisky, isn't it? Super accurate, doesn't take too many risks with the ball, is very mentally tough and very athletic. He's a slam dunk for the Chiefs to trade up for, if he lasts to the 20s, but in a QB-starved NFL with at least 6 new head coaches looking for their QB, there's no chance he lasts to us.
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Old 03-12-2017, 01:04 AM   #196
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I'm not saying don't draft one. I'm just saying don't waste a draft pick by reaching for an overrated QB prospect if there's someone at another position who is clearly a better player and will actually contribute to the success of the team.

Even the top couple of QBs in this class are late 1st to early 2nd round talents at best while the rest look like 4th round, or later, developmental prospects. But some idiotic team is going to reach on them and lose out on a higher caliber player at another position.
I think that's alot of media stuff in terms of where the QB's get put on boards. Every year we see guys get drafted early and people go "what?" It's kind of just up to the individual team and where they see guys. I don't know that they are 2nd round talents. I just don't think there's a guy there if you're picking in the top 10 or 15 and you need a guy to start this year, that there is one there for you. That doesn't mean don't take them round 1 or even high. They just all look to need some film room time and some refinement in some things. Most of these kids haven't taken a snap from under center since high school. They have to learn 3, 5, and 7 step drops and timing out of those drops. If they came from all these 1-2 read spread programs, they have to learn to make more reads. I don't think these kids are ready for the NFL game mentally like they used to come out ready. I'd say all of the guys in the top say 8 QB's have the arm talent. And the big thing for me is that QBs always get overvalued. If you think they are a 2nd round guy, then bump that up a round. If you think they are a round 1 type, then generally bump that up to top 10. It's just the nature of the beast. Teams need QBs and they throw more caution to the wind at that position than any other.

I guess that's where NFL teams have to place there dividing lines. Which kids are closest to ready and have legitimate NFL talent because those are my round 1's. Which ones are further away? I think my guys that are closest are going to be Trubisky, Watson, and Mahomes. I think Watson has the least natural arm talent of that group and Mahomes has the greatest. Watson is the most tested. I'd probably have those my round 1 guys. I think Kizer is my borderline guy. He's just has been too inconsistent for me to say with certainty he should go round 1, but he's at least a guy you take round 2 and develop for a couple seasons. I don't like Kayaa that much, I really don't like his arm and his decision making and I think you have to start with one or the other. He's probably a 4th round guy to me. Peterman and Webb are my 3rd round types. Peterman is poised, he's NFL ready from the idea of reads and progressions. He's got the goods that way, but he lacks enough zip to be a guy I put round 1. I just don't know if he's going to be able to make those tight sideline throws or throws into NFL windows 20 yards down field. I think he's a guy you hope develops better core strength to deliver those strikes and he could be a very solid backup. Webb is kind of the other way around. I don't like his accuracy, but he spins a good ball. He doesn't make the best decisions with the football, but he's not as bad as many, even some in round 1. If he can improve his accuracy on short and intermediate throws, he could end up being a steal. Right now I see him as Nick Foles 2.0, a borderline starter in a couple years that's going to bounce around. Evans and Kelly have the arms, but they are more of my 5th round guys. Evans, we'll see if he can be an NFL type of QB. He's never had to make reads and I don't like the way he tucks and runs after one look. He actually reminds me alot of the way Alex Smith seemed to play a good portion of this season.... He's a guy to bring in but you won't have your answers about him immediately. Kelly, I know he can play but he's a knucklehead. Maybe some humbling by being a #3 clipboard holder for a couple years will get his head on straight, and if not you only wasted a day 3 pick. I think Dobbs and Beathard are draftable, but you've got some projects there that you hope might turn into solid backups for you at some point.
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Old 03-12-2017, 02:55 AM   #197
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Am I the only one that thinks Mahomes is a Terrible prospect? His footwork is awful and it's not something that will be fixed in the NFL. He has so many throws that come off his back foot or off balance and not even out of necessity. It's just his natural throwing style to do so.

Most of the QBs need work, but he needs the most work by far and I don't think he'll ever fix his mechanics especially not by 2018 when I want our drafted QB to start by.
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Old 03-12-2017, 07:32 AM   #198
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I think the best QB in this class is Kizer. I'd draft him in the first if he's available. He has solid mechanics, had pro style reads and plays in college so he can make the easiest transition to the pros and he has good size, good arm and decent athleticism (going by game speed instead of his combine numbers).
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Old 03-12-2017, 07:47 AM   #199
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I think the best QB in this class is Kizer. I'd draft him in the first if he's available. He has solid mechanics, had pro style reads and plays in college so he can make the easiest transition to the pros and he has good size, good arm and decent athleticism (going by game speed instead of his combine numbers).
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Mahomes is a project, but he's still my favorite if we go qb early...

Kizer has his appeal, but I just don't see a stud worth throwing a #1 at
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Old 03-12-2017, 08:02 AM   #200
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Originally Posted by Willie Lanier View Post
Mahomes is a project, but he's still my favorite if we go qb early...

Kizer has his appeal, but I just don't see a stud worth throwing a #1 at
I just don't see anything that separates him from a guy like Tyler Bray. To me, he's Bray with even worse mechanics and just happens to play in the Air Raid offense. If he played in the SEC, he would have been destroyed.

I understand taking projects but he's going to take way to long if ever to correct his mechanics and be developed enough to play.
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Old 03-12-2017, 10:16 AM   #201
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -King- View Post
Am I the only one that thinks Mahomes is a Terrible prospect? His footwork is awful and it's not something that will be fixed in the NFL. He has so many throws that come off his back foot or off balance and not even out of necessity. It's just his natural throwing style to do so.

Most of the QBs need work, but he needs the most work by far and I don't think he'll ever fix his mechanics especially not by 2018 when I want our drafted QB to start by.
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Agreed. He's Bray with worse mechanics.
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Old 03-12-2017, 12:41 PM   #202
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Agreed. He's Bray with worse mechanics.
Earlier in this thread I commented on Mahomes poor mechanics, but I'll say I've come full circle on him. He's more athletic than I initially gave him credit for (and on a different planet from Bray) and shows some physicality as a runner. But more importantly, his 'mechanical' issues ala his footwork I now see as a positive. When he has a clean pocket his footwork is solid. When he doesn't, he still can make unorthodox throws that no QB in the draft can make. He can throw accurately off his back foot, jump throws, can change the angle of his arm to avoid defenders/batted passes, and he can make any throw you want him to make. His style is just different than what the so called experts value.

My only worry is his tendency to leave the pocket with or without pressure...he likes to play backyard ball far too much. If you can lasso that in a bit without losing his knack to make a play....you have a winner. His success will also depend, like any, on how dedicated he is to the small stuff. The rest is there....and I stand corrected.

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Old 03-12-2017, 01:03 PM   #203
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I'm not that high on him, but I think Davis Webb fits a lot of what Andy likes. He doesn't have serious mechanical issues, big strong kid with a strong arm and his team ran a WCO very similar to ours.

Seems like a better version of Nick Foles.
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Old 03-12-2017, 01:13 PM   #204
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What are your guys' thoughts on Gunner Kiel out of Cincinnati as a late round (6th/7th) backup QB prospect? I like the kid's' mentality in the pocket and his arm is solid. I think he got battered too much behind that shit O-line and it hurt his overall play, but it looks like he has some very good tools to work with.
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Old 03-12-2017, 08:07 PM   #205
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I'm not that high on him, but I think Davis Webb fits a lot of what Andy likes. He doesn't have serious mechanical issues, big strong kid with a strong arm and his team ran a WCO very similar to ours.

Seems like a better version of Nick Foles.
He's basically Nick Foles with less issues of passing due to being rather tall.

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What are your guys' thoughts on Gunner Kiel out of Cincinnati as a late round (6th/7th) backup QB prospect? I like the kid's' mentality in the pocket and his arm is solid. I think he got battered too much behind that shit O-line and it hurt his overall play, but it looks like he has some very good tools to work with.
Needs to bang some steroids real hard for awhile.
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Old 03-13-2017, 08:24 AM   #206
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Follow up info on Davis Webb: One #NFL GM said his intangibles are "through the roof" good.
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Old 03-13-2017, 01:31 PM   #207
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What are your guys' thoughts on Gunner Kiel out of Cincinnati as a late round (6th/7th) backup QB prospect? I like the kid's' mentality in the pocket and his arm is solid. I think he got battered too much behind that shit O-line and it hurt his overall play, but it looks like he has some very good tools to work with.
I'd never trust him.

All the shit with his recruiting, the commitments and decommitments, the transfer, the mental games w/ Tuberville. There's just something weird about how the kid is wired.

He hated competition and always seemed to need a coach barking at him to do anything and then if the coach barked too much, he'd shut down. Just not the kind of kid I expect to have the mental fortitude to amount to anything at this level.

I wouldn't even bother with him as a priority UDFA. If he wanted to come in on a 2-year futures deal as a camp body or something, I'd go ahead and see what he had because your alternatives are guys like Alex Tanney. But I'd be shocked if he ever throws an NFL pass.
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Old 03-13-2017, 01:50 PM   #208
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I'd never trust him.

All the shit with his recruiting, the commitments and decommitments, the transfer, the mental games w/ Tuberville. There's just something weird about how the kid is wired.

He hated competition and always seemed to need a coach barking at him to do anything and then if the coach barked too much, he'd shut down. Just not the kind of kid I expect to have the mental fortitude to amount to anything at this level.

I wouldn't even bother with him as a priority UDFA. If he wanted to come in on a 2-year futures deal as a camp body or something, I'd go ahead and see what he had because your alternatives are guys like Alex Tanney. But I'd be shocked if he ever throws an NFL pass.
I definitely agree on the recruiting part. Didn't he commit to like 3 or 4 different schools at one point or another? I dunno, remember it being odd.

I know Reid has been a fan of Cincy players going back to his days in Philly, so I thought about this kid.
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Old 03-13-2017, 02:19 PM   #209
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I definitely agree on the recruiting part. Didn't he commit to like 3 or 4 different schools at one point or another? I dunno, remember it being odd.

I know Reid has been a fan of Cincy players going back to his days in Philly, so I thought about this kid.
As a Mizzou/ND fan, I watched his recruiting pretty closely.

Mizzou was on him and reportedly in the driver's seat but he wouldn't make up his mind so they went hard after Mauk. He took the offer and so they moved on from Kiel. Then he was going to ND until he changed his mind again and committed to Indiana. He was there's for almost the entire signing season until he flipped to LSU and then at the last second he had another last-minute flip to ND. Then at ND he got mad because he got redshirted and started looking for a transfer. Even his transfer stuff was weird.

The guy just doesn't seem to be able to deal with any kind of adversity and has serious issues simply making a decision.
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Old 03-13-2017, 02:24 PM   #210
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IMO, best value QBs would be Peterman and Webb.

Kizer and Mahomes are 2nd/3rd rounders if the draft had decent QB talent. Unfortunately it doesn't and so they are being talked about as potential 1st rounders. They feel like Geno Smith all over again.
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