playing in a black jack tourney

[cabletech94]

tomorrow afternoon at a casino.

what are your tournament do's and don'ts.
looks like 3 tables of 6. $500 in chips to start. (after looking a bit more in depth, 4 start times each w/ 3 tables of 6 people).

i've played at the tables for years. but never a tournament. obviously the person with the most chips at the end wins. just wondering if my other degenerate gambling friends play this. and what's the best (winning) strategy to go in with.

thanks in advance,

CT94

[cosmo20002]

Originally Posted by KCrockaholic

1 tip I like to give is to use the unit ladder system.

In games like Baccarat and blackjack, if you're not counting cards in blackjack, then use the ladder system. Basically start at the minimum bet. Regardless of how low it is, just start there. When you win a hand, stay at your base bet. When you lose a hand, add one unit towards the next hand.

For instance, the base bet is $5. You lose that bet. Add 1 unit. Your bet is now $10. You lose that bet. Your next bet is now $15. Now say you win that bet, you move back down to $10. Keep track of your bets, don't lose track of your ladder. It's all about bankroll.

If every bettor left the casino or quit gambling after being up $40 the casinos would go bankrupt. The problem is people always have this urge to hit a certain $ goal amount when they walk into the casino. It's EASY to get up $40 at a table game. But you can do that within 10 minutes. It's not fun for people to leave after 10 minutes. They keep playing until they end up losing.

Completely irrelevant to a tournament.

[KCrockaholic]

Originally Posted by cosmo20002

Completely irrelevant to a tournament.

I don't have an understanding of tournament rules. I was kinda just rambling information I've used.

[cosmo20002]

Originally Posted by kccrow

I used to deal Black Jack in a Casino, lol. Here's what I can say from the dealer... If you're counting, but tipping me nice, I'm oblivious. The eyes in the sky will catch up to you if you're not relatively discreet. There's not rules against it, it's just the Casino doesn't like to get taken. There's nothing wrong with playing cards smart. My advice there, learn to count cards.

You can't count cards, so here's some basics on playing the hand out (these may change a bit with count, but its not that big of a deal).

Your Total/Dealers Up/Your Strat (H/S/D for Hit Stand Double)
9/26/D, 9/7A/H
10/29/D, 10/10A/H
11/2A/D
H12/23/H, H12/46/S, H12/7A/H
H13/26/S, H13/7A/H
H14-16/26/S, H14-16/7A/H
H17-21/2A/S
S13-16/23/H, S13-16/46/D, S13-16/7A/H
S17/26/D, S17/7A/H
S18/2,78,A/S, S18/36/D, S18/910/H
S19-21/2A/S

How to read that...
Say you're looking at H12/46/S... On your Hard 12, with dealer having a 4 through 6 up, Stand. Another (10/29/D), on your 10, dealer having 2 through 9 up, Double.

Always split As and 8s.
Never split 10s and 5s.
Never take Insurance (because you can't count. If you can, you're buying information).

You normally raise bets agains the count. The more favorable the deck, the more you increase your wager. But you can't count cards.

I'd probably try hard to at least pay attention to the 10s that go out and increase wagers as the shoe ends if you have a favorable deck in that regard. Easy count is +1 for 3-6 and -1 for 10. Divide this by approximate half decks in the shoe to get your "true count" approximation. If it's +, increase your bet. A solid rule would be to add a chip to your wager for every whole number your true count is + (although you'd want to start doubling that at +3 if you were being smart).

It's hard to win in Black Jack by blindly increasing your wagers. If you can't/won't count, then I'd try to be semi-consistent with your bets.

Mostly irrelevant to a tournament. You're just repeating basic strategy.
Does anyone bother reading?

[cosmo20002]

Originally Posted by KCrockaholic

I don't have an understanding of tournament rules. I was kinda just rambling information I've used.

Big difference is you're not just playing against the house. You're playing against the other players as well.

You generally play basic strategy as you normally would, but you also have to adjust your betting and decisions depending on where you are compared to the other players. That might mean taking extra risks (like splitting 10s against a 5 or 6) when you're behind and easing up if you're ahead.

[Jewish Rabbi]

Tournaments you actually benefit to split your 10s.

[cosmo20002]

and in tournaments, there might be situations where you'll need to double on 14 or something. Not much choice if you're way behind with a few hands left to play.

[kccrow]

Originally Posted by cosmo20002

Mostly irrelevant to a tournament. You're just repeating basic strategy.
Does anyone bother reading?

The goal of a tournament is to make the most money. He doesn't stand a chance if he isn't counting anyhow. Period. You're ****ing reeruned, as usual.

[cosmo20002]

Originally Posted by kccrow

The goal of a tournament is to make the most money. He doesn't stand a chance if he isn't counting anyhow. Period. You're ****ing reeruned, as usual.

The goal is to make more than your competitors--and to not bottom out. Lose your stake at a tournament, you're OUT. Lose it while just playing, you just buy more chips and keep playing if you want. That might (more likely will) mean betting and making decisions that you wouldn't make if you're just playing against the house. You giving him basic strategy helps only if he doesn't know the first thing about blackjack.

And someone can definitely win a tournament without counting. And if they are playing from a 6-8 deck shoe, which they probably are, counting becomes nearly worthless unless you're really advanced. And in a tournament, if you are counting and good at it, it would make even more sense to deviate a bit from strict basic strategy.

[kccrow]

Originally Posted by KCrockaholic

kccrow you're saying learn to count cards, then saying you can't count cards. Great post. I like it. But I'm confused.

I learned how to count cards throughout all of 2016. I practice at home occasionally now. But I never used it at a real table.

I can, the OP said he can't. I gave a basic for counting that he could learn quickly. I think he really needs to use it.

[kccrow]

Originally Posted by cosmo20002

The goal is to make more than your competitors--and to not bottom out. Lose your stake at a tournament, you're OUT. Lose it while just playing, you just buy more chips and keep playing if you want. That might (more likely will) mean betting and making decisions that you wouldn't make if you're just playing against the house. You giving him basic strategy helps only if he doesn't know the first thing about blackjack.

And someone can definitely win a tournament without counting. And if they are playing from a 6-8 deck shoe, which they probably are, counting becomes nearly worthless unless you're really advanced. And in a tournament, if you are counting and good at it, it would make even more sense to deviate a bit from strict basic strategy.

Pretty damn sure I told him how to increase his bets based on favorable deck.

[kccrow]

Originally Posted by cosmo20002

and in tournaments, there might be situations where you'll need to double on 14 or something. Not much choice if you're way behind with a few hands left to play.

Talk about a blanket statement here... What if the deck is unfavorable? What are the dealer's up cards? You still HAVE to play against the house.

You have take risks when they are strategically appropriate against the house and the players.

For instance, Rabbi said split 10's sometimes. If you split 10's against a dealer up card of 5, and the count is -, then there is a solid chance the dealer doesn't bust and a solid chance you give yourself two sub-17's. So, if you're going to make this relatively stupid play because it's a last ditch effort, do it when you can also double-down (especially if you end up with a 12 on one of your splits).

[vailpass]

Originally Posted by kccrow

I used to deal Black Jack in a Casino, lol. Here's what I can say from the dealer... If you're counting, but tipping me nice, I'm oblivious. The eyes in the sky will catch up to you if you're not relatively discreet. There's not rules against it, it's just the Casino doesn't like to get taken. There's nothing wrong with playing cards smart. My advice there, learn to count cards.

You can't count cards, so here's some basics on playing the hand out (these may change a bit with count, but its not that big of a deal).

Your Total/Dealers Up/Your Strat (H/S/D for Hit Stand Double)
9/26/D, 9/7A/H
10/29/D, 10/10A/H
11/2A/D
H12/23/H, H12/46/S, H12/7A/H
H13/26/S, H13/7A/H
H14-16/26/S, H14-16/7A/H
H17-21/2A/S
S13-16/23/H, S13-16/46/D, S13-16/7A/H
S17/26/D, S17/7A/H
S18/2,78,A/S, S18/36/D, S18/910/H
S19-21/2A/S

How to read that...
Say you're looking at H12/46/S... On your Hard 12, with dealer having a 4 through 6 up, Stand. Another (10/29/D), on your 10, dealer having 2 through 9 up, Double.

Always split As and 8s.
Never split 10s and 5s.
Never take Insurance (because you can't count. If you can, you're buying information).

You normally raise bets agains the count. The more favorable the deck, the more you increase your wager. But you can't count cards.

I'd probably try hard to at least pay attention to the 10s that go out and increase wagers as the shoe ends if you have a favorable deck in that regard. Easy count is +1 for 3-6 and -1 for 10. Divide this by approximate half decks in the shoe to get your "true count" approximation. If it's +, increase your bet. A solid rule would be to add a chip to your wager for every whole number your true count is + (although you'd want to start doubling that at +3 if you were being smart).

It's hard to win in Black Jack by blindly increasing your wagers. If you can't/won't count, then I'd try to be semi-consistent with your bets.

I remember having that rule card when I learned the game sitting at the $2 table with my dad at Barbary Coast many years ago. Sigh. It's like memorizing the multipcation tables. Once you have it hard wired the game becomes automated with the only challenge being having the discipline to make the correct play when it seems futile to do so.

[kccrow]

Originally Posted by vailpass

I remember having that rule card when I learned the game sitting at the $2 table with my dad at Barbary Coast many years ago. Sigh. It's like memorizing the multipcation tables. Once you have it hard wired the game becomes automated with the only challenge being having the discipline to make the correct play when it seems futile to do so.

Yeah its very close to the casino cards. Not quite, but close. I think the Casino cards say to split everything against a 6 or less except 10's, 5's, and 4's. Dealing the game, there's a lot of dumb players with no discipline, tournaments or not.

[vailpass]

Originally Posted by kccrow

Yeah its very close to the casino cards. Not quite, but close. I think the Casino cards say to split everything against a 6 or less except 10's, 5's, and 4's.

I had one my dad did for me, didn't include split all against 6. He took me the week I turned 21, loved the game ever since. Back in the day when they gave free cigarettes and drinks. The semi old school vegas though I'd like to have been there during the heyday. Yep I learned to go to the higher stakes table to avoid the undisciplined and to get up and walk if one showed up.
Great post by the way.

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