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Old 09-17-2018, 11:54 PM  
Taco John Taco John is offline
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Trump poised to win $5 billion to build border wall

Trump poised to win $5 billion to build border wall

by Paul Bedard
| September 14, 2018 08:13 AM


President Trump and congressional leaders have agreed to a border wall funding showdown after the upcoming November midterm elections and if he plays his cards right, it could result in $5 billion, more than twice what the White House initially sought.

While appropriations bills are moving at the fastest pace in over 20 years, with many expected to be approved by Oct. 1, the start of the fiscal year, Homeland Security funding for the wall is likely to be delayed, said officials.

Plans are already underway to approve temporary, “stopgap,” funding that will cover Homeland until its new spending is approved after the wall funding fight.

However, in a good sign for the White House, the Senate has already locked in the $1.6 billion Trump sought this year in wall construction funding in a bipartisan vote and it will be included in the stopgap bill.

The House is likely to approve $5 billion for the wall, matching Trump’s top level wish and setting up negotiations with the Senate.

Threats of a shutdown over not getting full funding for the wall by Oct. 1, however, threaten to disrupt the plan agreed to at a recent White House meeting between Trump, Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, and House Speaker Paul Ryan, according to a key official.

Should Trump shift and shut the government down, Democrats would likely make demands for their support and that would include funding for their pet projects.

“A shutdown scenario becomes a lot more expensive,” said a congressional negotiator.

To convince the president against a shutdown, officials are pointing to the pledge to push for more border wall funding after the election.

They are also warning that a shutdown would cloud the success Trump has had this year in pushing for on-time passage of spending bills and eliminate media coverage of his biggest summer victory, the likely confirmation of Brett Kavanaugh to the Supreme Court, which opens its fall session on Oct. 1.

Post-election negotiations could go fast because knowledgeable sources said that McConnell would approve $5 billion, as would other GOP leaders.

Republican Sen. Shelley Moore Capito, who heads the appropriations subcommittee funding the wall, for example, told the West Virginia Metro News that she is working to get as much as $5 billion.

“In talking to the Border Patrol, they seem to feel that is an amount that they could absorb and work toward securing the border that way. We’re trying to find the money, but that’s not easy. We’re in heavy discussion right now,” said the West Virginia Republican.

And House and Senate aides said that if Trump makes a public case for more spending he could get it quickly in the post-election talks.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/w...ld-border-wall
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Old 09-18-2018, 08:48 AM   #16
RodeoPants2 RodeoPants2 is offline
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Do republicans ever stop and think about how if they had a normal person as president their approval rating would be in the 60s and they'd likely be set up for a fairly strong midterm performance?

I mean, no major wars, and the is economy chugging along. That should be great for the incumbent party.

And I guarantee you the reason that's not the case is NOT because they've haven't been big enough dicks to immigrants
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Old 09-18-2018, 08:53 AM   #17
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Trump poised to win $5 billion to build border wall
Win?

Like the Powerball?
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Old 09-18-2018, 09:00 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by RodeoPants2 View Post
Do republicans ever stop and think about how if they had a normal person as president their approval rating would be in the 60s and they'd likely be set up for a fairly strong midterm performance?

I mean, no major wars, and the is economy chugging along. That should be great for the incumbent party.

And I guarantee you the reason that's not the case is NOT because they've haven't been big enough dicks to immigrants
^ Admits Trump is doing a good job and having a severe case of TDS in one post. Well done.
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Old 09-18-2018, 09:09 AM   #19
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I wonder if TJ has always been pro-wall/border security and strong against illegal immigration.
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Old 09-18-2018, 09:56 AM   #20
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I wonder if TJ has always been pro-wall/border security and strong against illegal immigration.

No, I didn't realize just how bad the border had gotten until the last three years. I previously was against the wall, but have come around on it after learning more about the situation. If it gets built, great. If it doesn't, I'm okay with increased National Guard activity to help keep the issue in check. I've always been against illegal immigration. Being half-mexican, I'm a little more aware of why we want to eliminate illegal immigration: it's simply better for integration.
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Old 09-18-2018, 09:57 AM   #21
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No, I didn't realize just how bad the border had gotten until the last three years. I previously was against the wall, but have come around on it after learning more about the situation. If it gets built, great. If it doesn't, I'm okay with increased National Guard activity to help keep the issue in check. I've always been against illegal immigration. Being half-mexican, I'm a little more aware of why we want to eliminate illegal immigration: it's simply better for integration.
Fair enough.
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Old 09-18-2018, 11:09 AM   #22
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https://www.kpbs.org/news/2018/sep/1...esigns-broken/

Government Report Shows Border Wall Designs Can Be Broken

President Donald Trump has stated that his vision of a “great” and “not penetrable” wall along the border with Mexico would keep “rapists,” “murderers” and other people from breaking into the United States.

But a U.S. Customs and Border Protection report shows new barriers could fail in that job — at least if they’re based on the steel and concrete barriers that were tested in last year’s $20-million Otay Mesa prototype project. The models were meant to inform future wall designs, combining different features of the prototypes.

The heavily-redacted government documents reveal every mock-up was deemed vulnerable to at least one breaching technique. The report, obtained by KPBS through a Freedom of Information Act request filed in January, shows the final results of tactical teams trying to breach or scale the prototypes and mock-ups of the wall. During testing, the teams who observed the damage caused by one breaching technique decided to postpone it on other mock-ups. The technique’s nature was redacted.

“The (redacted) breaching technique was rescheduled to be last breaching technique on each mock-up, since the technique had the potential to impact the structural integrity of the entire mock-up,” the report states.
Engineers interviewed by KPBS said these sections of the report show that the mock-ups were at risk of collapsing due to the redacted breaching technique.

“It wasn’t intended on their part, but when they ran this test, they must have realized it was causing some kind of major damage to the mock-ups,” said Robert K. Dowell, associate professor of structural engineering at San Diego State University’s Department of Civil, Construction and Environmental Engineering. “And they put it at the end because of that. They thought it was going to collapse.”

As for the prototypes, it’s unclear from the document whether they can be scaled. The government redacted almost the entire section on scaling.

Government Approach

The overall approach consisted of five test cases for the mock-ups and prototypes: breaching, scaling, aesthetics, engineering design review analysis and constructability inspection.

Meanwhile, the report provides no evidence that the government tested how well the barriers resist the creation of tunnels beneath them. Resistance to tunneling was among the project requirements. Additionally, most of the prototypes failed to show they could be easily modified in response to different border landscapes.

In response to a request for comment on the documented flaws of the barriers, U.S. Customs and Border Protection spokesman Ralph DeSio said the prototypes “were not and cannot be designed to be indestructible.” He said they were instead meant to help create barriers that would “impede or deny efforts to scale, breach, or dig under such a barrier, giving agents time to respond.”

He also added that no single prototype was “the intended end result.”
When Trump visited San Diego in March, he toured the prototype site as part of his campaign for still-nonexistent funds for his wall, projected to cost upwards of $20 billion. He said his wall would stop 99 percent of smugglers, including those he described as “professional mountain climbers.”
The unveiling of the prototypes generated a lot of buzz. Fox News, Business Insider and the Los Angeles Times quoted unnamed officials who claimed the barriers had withstood attempts to scale and break them. Some of the headlines included these descriptions:

– “Virtually Impassable”
– “Nearly impossible to scale”
– “Wall prototypes pass tests”

Here’s a breakdown of the actual results.

Q: Can The Barriers Be Breached? A: They Can Be Broken.

The breaching trials on the mock-ups were conducted by the Border Patrol Tactical Unit and military special forces including Marine Special Operations Command and the U.S. Special Operations Command.
The teams had nearly 60 different breaching tools available to them. Thirteen redacted photographs in the “Border Wall Mock-Up and Prototype Test Final Report” are labeled as “breached,” but it’s unclear how many mock-ups those photos correspond to because of the redactions.
All of the prototypes were deemed vulnerable to the breaching technique that was rescheduled to be at the end of each test. Whether that technique was actually applied to the mock-ups is not evident in the documents.
Another change of plans came when one of the mock-ups was so damaged by a technique that not all portions of the testing were conducted on that mock-up.

During the application of that breaching technique, “the compromised structural integrity of (redacted) caused by the (redacted) led to unsafe conditions resulting in the technique being stopped and the (redacted) portion not executed.”

The mock-ups were replicas of the lowest 10 feet of each prototype. Unlike scaling tests conducted on the 30-foot prototypes in open air beside existing 10-foot rusting steel fencing, the breaching tests were done on mock-ups of the prototypes November through December in a location described in the document as “Pogo Row,” a dirt road north of the prototypes.

The dirt road is lined on the south by Brown Field Municipal Airport and on the north by stretches of wrecked and dismembered vehicles stacked by auto parts vendors. At the east end of the road, U.S. Customs and Border Protection support facilities lie behind a chain-link fence featuring “No Trespassing” signs.

The tactical teams tested the mock-ups for how well they met the Department of Homeland Security specification in the requests for proposals to prevent “a physical breach … larger than 12-inches in diameter or square.”
During testing late last year, a Customs and Border Protection spokesman told KPBS breaching trials were hidden from public view to keep smugglers from gleaning information about how to break the barriers.

Dowell of San Diego State University’s engineering department said it was strange that the breaching tests were conducted on mock-ups a third the size of the prototypes. He said that the taller a structure, the more likely it is to fall.

“The results at the base, what we call the bending moment and overturning moment at the bottom or footing, would be different… unless they accounted for that by applying different loads,” he said.

Breaching is a widespread problem along existing border infrastructure. The 653 miles of barriers on the nearly 2,000-mile U.S.-Mexico border are marred with cuts and patches. New breaches appear on a daily basis, with smugglers using axes, torches, battery operated cutting tools and more.
A 2017 Government Accountability Office analysis of Customs and Border Protection data estimates that “illegal entrants breached legacy pedestrian fencing at an average rate of 82 breaches per fence mile, compared to an average of 14 breaches per fence mile of modern pedestrian fencing.”
U.S. Customs and Border Protection has said that in five years, existing fencing was breached more than 9,000 times, and two decades of maintenance costs more than $1 billion, due in part to breach repair.
While most of the tools and all of the breaching techniques are redacted in the report, the document does reveal the use of a plasma cutter and a quick saw. One redacted photograph under the quick saw section is labeled as “breached.”

Q: Can The Barriers Be Tunneled Under? A: Unknown.

The prototypes were supposed to prevent digging or tunneling for a minimum of 6 feet below the lowest adjacent grade, according to government specifications for construction.

But the final report doesn’t show that the mock-ups were tested for this requirement.

In a previous investigative series, America’s Wall, KPBS and inewsource found border fence construction is correlated with illegal cross-border tunneling. These tunnels, used for drug and human smuggling, tend to concentrate in areas with strong and layered fencing. In San Diego, which has one of the most fortified borders with Mexico, more than 60 tunnels have been found since fencing construction began. One was 90 feet underground.
As tunnels become increasingly plentiful and sophisticated — with lighting, rail and ventilation systems — government methods to detect them remain rudimentary, according to Border Patrol.

Q: Can The Barriers Be Scaled? A: Some Can.

The prototypes were tested for how well they resisted climbing. That section of the report was too redacted to draw conclusions.
But based on Trump’s comments when he visited the prototypes, “some” of the barriers can be scaled. “Those are the ones we’re not using,” he said.
In the report, a reference is made to a “two by four wooden board” that was tied to a rope and thrown over the top of one of the prototypes.
The report says data was collected about “the start time of the scale attempt, the ‘scale time’ when scaler reaches the top of the prototype or a note that the scaler could not reach the top.”

The attempts were also photographed and filmed.

Q: Are The Barriers Adaptable? A: Not Entirely.

The effectiveness of border barriers depends in part on the landscape. Whether the ground is mountainous, flat, coastal, sandy, rocky or thick with desert shrub, it impacts the functionality and constructability of the wall.
According to the testing results, the prototypes didn’t meet all of the construction and engineering-related requirements intended to ensure their compatibility with variegated border terrain.

Five out of eight of the prototypes failed to meet the government specification to “facilitate changes in color and textures” amid changing landscapes.

Six out of eight of the prototype designs “require significant deviation from the submitted design, resulting in variance in appearance and function,” to meet Border Patrol’s design standards for sliding gates.

This summer, the Government Accountability Office published a report indicating that border barrier construction could end up being costlier than necessary because Customs and Border Protection has failed to account for “costs associated with deploying barriers in each location or segment, which can vary depending on topography, land ownership, and other factors.”
The report singled out the prototype project, saying their construction was initiated without “key information.”

Q: Are The Barriers Attractive? A: Yes, To Some.

The report analyzed how well the prototypes pleased the eyes of 76 participants, mostly engineers and people in law enforcement.
One of the requirements in the requests for proposals was that the “north side of wall (i.e. US facing side) shall be aesthetically pleasing.” Participants were shown digital pictures of the prototypes to assess “shape, color, and texture, in a way that appeals to the senses and/or emotions.”
According to the report, the “texture” of each prototype was the most important feature in determining its attractiveness.
There was some agreement among participants about which was the best-looking, but the report redacted its name.
The prototypes were built by Caddell Construction, KWR Construction, ELTA North America, W.G. Yates & Sons Construction Company, Fisher Sand & Gravel, and Texas Sterling Construction.
The report was completed on February 23, 2018.

Last edited by NinerDoug; 09-18-2018 at 11:15 AM..
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Old 09-18-2018, 11:13 AM   #23
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The breaching trials on the mock-ups were conducted by the Border Patrol Tactical Unit and military special forces including Marine Special Operations Command and the U.S. Special Operations Command.

I'm guessing the average illegal doesn't have either the skills or equipment of our spec op boys.
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Old 09-18-2018, 11:20 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Donger View Post
The breaching trials on the mock-ups were conducted by the Border Patrol Tactical Unit and military special forces including Marine Special Operations Command and the U.S. Special Operations Command.

I'm guessing the average illegal doesn't have either the skills or equipment of our spec op boys.
So you believe that the methods employed were methods that you would not expect potential illegal immigrants and smugglers to have available to them?

That would be a silly way to test a wall, IMHO.

If you want to see how well an automobile holds up in collisions, for example, you don't run over it with a tank.

My guess would be that the CBP and military people doing the testing used methods you would expect would be employed by those the wall is intended to stop. They're not going to blow the thing apart with a howitzer and then call it a failure because it wouldn't stand up to a howitzer.
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Old 09-18-2018, 11:23 AM   #25
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Old 09-18-2018, 11:26 AM   #26
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So you believe that the methods employed were methods that you would not expect potential illegal immigrants and smugglers to have available to them?

That would be a silly way to test a wall, IMHO.

If you want to see how well an automobile holds up in collisions, for example, you don't run over it with a tank.

My guess would be that the CBP and military people doing the testing used methods you would expect would be employed by those the wall is intended to stop. They're not going to blow the thing apart with a howitzer and then call it a failure because it wouldn't stand up to a howitzer.
I believe that the methods used are beyond what the average coyote or illegal would use. Therefore, it's actually a really good test.
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Old 09-18-2018, 11:28 AM   #27
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I believe that the methods used are beyond what the average coyote or illegal would use. Therefore, it's actually a really good test.
Why do you believe that?
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Old 09-18-2018, 11:32 AM   #28
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Why do you believe that?
I just see the average coyote or illegal trudging through the desert with linear shaped charges. Meh. Regardless, any defense can be defeated. That doesn't mean you don't have defenses.
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Old 09-18-2018, 11:45 AM   #29
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I just see the average coyote or illegal trudging through the desert with linear shaped charges. Meh. Regardless, any defense can be defeated. That doesn't mean you don't have defenses.
I assume you meant "don't see...."

What makes you think they used "linear shaped charges"?
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Old 09-18-2018, 11:47 AM   #30
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So you believe that the methods employed were methods that you would not expect potential illegal immigrants and smugglers to have available to them?

That would be a silly way to test a wall, IMHO.

If you want to see how well an automobile holds up in collisions, for example, you don't run over it with a tank.

My guess would be that the CBP and military people doing the testing used methods you would expect would be employed by those the wall is intended to stop. They're not going to blow the thing apart with a howitzer and then call it a failure because it wouldn't stand up to a howitzer.
The wall doesn't need to be completely impenetrable to be effective.
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