It has gone beyond embarrassing

[petegz28]

When you lose the way we did against Cleveland you suddenly find yourself staring at 2-11 and being embarrassed would be an improvement. Today we saw in a nutshell the complete and utter stupidity that Pioli has spent the better part of 4 years putting together.

We bitched about this team early in the season, gave up on them mid-way and now actually root for a loss in hopes for a good draft spot. Unfortunately a new QB, regardless of who it is or how high he is drafted, is not going to help this sorry ass compilation of fail and suck.

Think about the mess Pioli has created in just under 4 years that we now have to clean up in a hurry, somehow.

1. No QB's
2. No WR's...Bowe will walk leaving us with nothing worth a ****
3. No LT, I expect Albert to walk from this abortion
4. No DE's, Dorsey will walk and TJ still sucks
5. No punter..Colquitt can walk this year
6. No secondary, save flowers
7. 1 RB worth a shit
8. No Center worth a ****
9. No HC worth a ****
10. No OC worth a ****
11. No DC worth a ****
12. No ST coach worth a ****
13. No kicker worth a ****

So as I see it, we need at least 2 QB's, 2 WR's, a center, 2 DE's, 2 CB's, 1-2 Safetys, a HC, an OC, a DC, a ST coach, a kicker, a punter and of course a new GM

/rant off

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by Baby Lee

Bullshit, htis has said JUST TODAY that Cousins isn't worth later round picks. How the **** can the same person say 'if he's there at #1, 2, 3 overall in the draft and he's the best QB available take him' AND 'he's not worth trading away a 2nd 3rd or 4th round pick because I already know he's worthless and always will be?'

So basically you're saying that your hypothetical scenario involves Kirk Cousins being the BEST QB available, despite having a 4th-round skillset.

Again, your hypothetical is BS baiting and nothing more. Your hypothetical scenario would never happen in the REAL WORLD.

[Baby Lee]

Originally Posted by SNR

Also, if the risk involved in picking just any ol' QB with a high draft pick boils down to "the team is forced to live with his mistakes for too long," then I don't know what to tell you. Teams need QBs. If they don't draft a guy, then they go the Chiefs route of trading for backups.

Elvis Grbacs, Rich Gannons, and Matt Cassels aren't any safer than rolling the dice on risky QBs in the first round. When they bust, they still require the franchise to give the company line, "Just be patient." The only difference is that when they succeed, they succeed as bullshit game managers, and when they fail they fail just as hard and fast as the QBs that fail spectacularly.

So does it come down to the pricetag, Baby Lee? If you're going to hang yourself, you shouldn't pay too much?

If the situation is as dire as ours, you don't settle for a Gannon or Cassel either. If the talent isn't there in the draft class you find the way to trade for the Montanas, Youngs and Mannings out there.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by Baby Lee

If the situation is as dire as ours, you don't settle for a Gannon or Cassel either. If the talent isn't there in the draft class you find the way to trade for the Montanas, Youngs and Mannings out there.

The talent is there in this draft class.

Something tells me that it is this little tidbit that has created this HUGE difference in thinking between SNR, myself, and you.

[DeezNutz]

If Smith is gone, there will be Wilson. If both are gone, there will be Barkley. All are legitimate first-round talents.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

If Smith is gone, there will be Wilson. If both are gone, there will be Barkley. All are legitimate first-round talents.

Exactly.

[ROYC75]

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

If Smith is gone, there will be Wilson. If both are gone, there will be Barkley. All are legitimate first-round talents.

If Smith and Wilson is gone at 1 & 2 and we are at 3 and you think Barkley is the 3rd best QB in the draft, yet he isn't the best fit for this team , you let that sucker go by. Take BPA, find some other team that has a sloberfest hard on for a weak armed QB and acquire another 1 or a 2, package something together somewhere somehow to get a quality BPA at a 1 and take Bray at the other 1 to complete your draft. You then have your 2 to grab another player unless you had to use him in your package to get 2 - #1high enough to get your QB and BPA.

This team has man needs but to settle for a guy like Barkley that doesn't fit our plans of stretching the field is assine. We have that in Cassel now, at least Quinn or Stanzi can throw it deep to keep the corners and safeties from crowding the line.

Sure the CBA has cut the risk of selecting a QB high now, but would you still want Barkley if the CBA wasn't the way it is now ?

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by ROYC75

This team has man needs but to settle for a guy like Barkley that doesn't fit our plans of stretching the field is assine. We have that in Cassel now, at least Quinn or Stanzi can throw it deep to keep the corners and safeties from crowding the line.

This team has a plan to stretch the field?

Do you know who the next coach is already?

[ROYC75]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

This team has a plan to stretch the field?

Do you know who the next coach is already?

Copycat league, if we are not we must be on the leading edge to bring the WC offense back.

Barkley's only chance to succeed in the NFL is with a team planning more ball control or a WC offense.

[RealSNR]

Originally Posted by Baby Lee

If the situation is as dire as ours, you don't settle for a Gannon or Cassel either. If the talent isn't there in the draft class you find the way to trade for the Montanas, Youngs and Mannings out there.

If Smith, Wilson, and Barkley truly are 2nd round talents (which they aren't) and not worth the Chiefs' time, then we're stuck going a different route: trading for Alex Smith, Colt McCoy, Mark Sanchez or trying to sign Joe Flacco away from the Ravens.

Or we keep what we have and draft another slapdick Ricky Stanzi/Kirk Cousins clone to ride the bench under futile QB leadership.

All in the name of "draft value." And not setting the franchise back.

What's the appropriate solution?

[Guitarkore]

Originally Posted by Discuss Thrower

The fact that people don't think we need a multi-year rebuild is baffling to me.

This...

[Baby Lee]

Originally Posted by SNR

If Smith, Wilson, and Barkley truly are 2nd round talents (which they aren't) and not worth the Chiefs' time, then we're stuck going a different route: trading for Alex Smith, Colt McCoy, Mark Sanchez or trying to sign Joe Flacco away from the Ravens.

Or we keep what we have and draft another slapdick Ricky Stanzi/Kirk Cousins clone to ride the bench under futile QB leadership.

All in the name of "draft value." And not setting the franchise back.

What's the appropriate solution?

Goalposts movin' all over up in here.

There's a gulf of difference between;

'get the QB as soon as you can because we need one and if it's not the right guy we can throw him in the gutter and go buy another'

and

'these 3 guys are each certified 1st round material, and drafting them is a near lock, but even if he doesn't live up to certified status you have to try.'

A GULF.

[RealSNR]

Originally Posted by Baby Lee

Goalposts movin' all over up in here.

There's a gulf of difference between;

'get the QB as soon as you can because we need one and if it's not the right guy we can throw him in the gutter and go buy another'

and

'these 3 guys are each certified 1st round material, and drafting them is a near lock, but even if he doesn't live up to certified status you have to try.'

A GULF.

Hey, I just figured that if you can use ridiculous hypotheticals that have no bearing on the argument, then I can move the goalposts a few inches.

[Baby Lee]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

Yeah, let's **** around and end up getting NOTHING at the QB position.

Just draft a ****ing QB first and let the chips fall where they may.

Originally Posted by SNR

That accurately describes the Chiefs' tryout with Scott Pioli.

However, the worst that happens with a QB is that old Cindy Crawford decides she doesn't actually want to have sex and has her doorman show you the way out. I can't think of any horrific scenarios that will set the team back years if the QB busts.

Originally Posted by htismaqe

That's no longer true with the current CBA.

No drafting, at any position, will set a team back "years".

Originally Posted by SNR

Why do busted QBs set a team back so much as opposed to busted 5-tech defensive linemen? In both cases, the draft pick has been pissed away.

Originally Posted by SNR

Hey, I just figured that if you can use ridiculous hypotheticals that have no bearing on the argument, then I can move the goalposts a few inches.

Compared to your and htis' ridiculous stances before I started the work of drawing some substance out of you. That of;

'just draft someone, anyone, at QB ASAP, regardless of value or prospects for success. Could fail, but then you just wash, rinse, repeat.'

Do you guys really pay this little attention to what you post.

htis was NEARLY SIMULTANEOUSLY posting 'I guarantee Cousins is a waste of a later round draft pick. He'll never be a success.' AND 'just draft a QB [no mention of qualification or value] already. We need one, one's available, BOOM, tough actin' Tenactin.'

[RealSNR]

Originally Posted by Baby Lee

Compared to your and htis' ridiculous stances before I started the work of drawing some substance out of you. That of;

'just draft someone, anyone, at QB ASAP, regardless of value or prospects for success. Could fail, but then you just wash, rinse, repeat.'

God, you're such a ****ing lawyer

You're the one who preached caution with this QB class when there's really nothing to be all that cautious about more than most years. This is an above average class of QBs, and you said settling for this group is like getting surprise raped by Dennis Rodman. That's the first thing you said that was more obtuse than my "draft a QB if you don't have one" argument

The second one was when you tried to pawn off the ol' "Okay, you hate Kirk Cousins so much, so would you just draft him if he's the only QB available?" There has NEVER been a class of QBs that god awful in the modern era of the NFL, and if it were possible I'd probably bet a hefty chunk of money that there never will be. I always said that if you need a QB, then go get one. And if you're as desperate as the Chiefs and don't want to trade for a retread (we don't) then the QBs only get worse the further down the draft you go. That's what I've been saying this year, that's what I said in that abortion QB class of 2010, and that's what I would say to your nonexistent Kirk Cousins draft.

You're pretty crafty with your logic, but if you keep bouncing all over the goddamn place, you'll eventually trip on your own dick.

[Baby Lee]

Originally Posted by SNR

God, you're such a ****ing lawyer

You're the one who preached caution with this QB class when there's really nothing to be all that cautious about more than most years. This is an above average class of QBs, and you said settling for this group is like getting surprise raped by Dennis Rodman. That's the first thing you said that was more obtuse than my "draft a QB if you don't have one" argument

The second one was when you tried to pawn off the ol' "Okay, you hate Kirk Cousins so much, so would you just draft him if he's the only QB available?" There has NEVER been a class of QBs that god awful in the modern era of the NFL, and if it were possible I'd probably bet a hefty chunk of money that there never will be. I always said that if you need a QB, then go get one. And if you're as desperate as the Chiefs and don't want to trade for a retread (we don't) then the QBs only get worse the further down the draft you go. That's what I've been saying this year, that's what I said in that abortion QB class of 2010, and that's what I would say to your nonexistent Kirk Cousins draft.

You're pretty crafty with your logic, but if you keep bouncing all over the goddamn place, you'll eventually trip on your own dick.

1. I've heard 'such a ****ing lawyer' on here a bajillion times, one for each time the true underlying response was 'OK, I see what you're saying, good point.'

2. You and htis' being vague with the 'draft a QB already' with absolutely no mention of value or qualification wasn't my doing. I may still have a semi-functional sarcasmeter, I don't know if a 'there's a ton of assumed qualifications to my blanket hyperbolic statements you should already know'-meter has even been invented.

3. My hypothetical of a draft where Cousins was the best QB available, even early on in the draft, might be unrealistic, but it is completely defensible when someone is NEARLY SIMULTANEOUSLY stating 'draft QB, any QB, already' and 'Cousins is a guaranteed failure regardless of draft position' as Cousins, regardless of future prospects, undeniably falls under the umbrella of 'any QB.'

4. Stepping on one's dick is a pain, one that those few fortunate whose dicks reach the ground must bear.