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Old 02-19-2018, 04:00 AM  
cooper barrett cooper barrett is online now
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John Oliver

OK your not fans of Bill Maher, don't miss Charlie Rose or Tavis Smiley but do you watch this?









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Old 02-21-2018, 05:28 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Nickhead View Post
both shows are getting to be unwatchable. too many half truths and no accountability for their own actions
Yea, I can't stand to watch Fox and Friends either.
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Old 02-21-2018, 08:22 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Nickhead View Post
both shows are getting to be unwatchable. too many half truths and no accountability for their own actions
Your so full of shit


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After you watch if Google it.
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Old 02-21-2018, 10:20 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Baby Lee View Post
They make interesting rhetorical points to ponder.

My beef is more with the way they phrase the counterargument.

They have an idea - Fine
They wonder why their idea hasn't been adopted - Fine
They misrepresent the heck out of the counterargument - Ah, here's the problem
Finally, they conclude that there are no good arguments against their idea. - unsupported and distorted conclusion.
Ah, and step number three is where you’re mischaracterizing these guys, and epically so. This is precisely why you’re twisted up about these guys.

Ask yourself: what comedic editorial trick did the Daily Show master under Jon Stewart?

Playing clips of politicians and media figures shamelessly contradicting themselves for political expediency. The Daily Show also earned a reputation for playing soundbites of hilariously stupid arguments made by the media and those in power and shitting all over them for it. Colbert Report mastered that. Oliver and Bee take it to the next level by shattering the arguments that those in power are making — and we know they are making those arguments because both Oliver and Bee play clips of them making those arguments.

So to correct your reductive pattern of Stewart/Colbert/Oliver/Bee:

They have an idea.
They wonder why that idea hasn’t been enacted.
They then play clips of people in power and the media saying why it hasn’t been enacted.
They then call their bullshit, and present their counterargument.

That’s why these shows are influential editorials. They are funny, but they actionably take a stand that you can evaluate.

To call them “comedic fiction” is ridiculous.
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Old 02-22-2018, 01:43 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
Ah, and step number three is where you’re mischaracterizing these guys, and epically so. This is precisely why you’re twisted up about these guys.

Ask yourself: what comedic editorial trick did the Daily Show master under Jon Stewart?

Playing clips of politicians and media figures shamelessly contradicting themselves for political expediency. The Daily Show also earned a reputation for playing soundbites of hilariously stupid arguments made by the media and those in power and shitting all over them for it. Colbert Report mastered that. Oliver and Bee take it to the next level by shattering the arguments that those in power are making — and we know they are making those arguments because both Oliver and Bee play clips of them making those arguments.

So to correct your reductive pattern of Stewart/Colbert/Oliver/Bee:

They have an idea.
They wonder why that idea hasn’t been enacted.
They then play clips of people in power and the media saying why it hasn’t been enacted.
They then call their bullshit, and present their counterargument.

That’s why these shows are influential editorials. They are funny, but they actionably take a stand that you can evaluate.

To call them “comedic fiction” is ridiculous.
Don't even try this bullshit.
This bullshit is EXACTLY what is pernicious about their method.
'They play clips' - yeah, 2 seconds clips completely out of context that they then spend the next 5 minutes explaining to you what the person meant, probably meant, and why they said it.

And the thing is, it's not that their methods can't be rebutted, but it takes time, research, and energy to rebut 'an entertainment segment' that just isn't worth it, particularly with the sheer volume they put out.

That's not to say there are aren't times when they get the argument completely right, but that's part of the point. The few times they clearly get it right lend unearned credibility to the many many other times they are shamefully misrepresenting or distorting the facts.

It's entertaining and lucrative, and they work hard on it. But it's no more truthful or journalistic than any other partisan talking head. If you insist that they are presenting 'humor filled editorial' that consistently gets it right, you're no different from a Rush or Hannity fan.

Case in point, the segment above about 'Late Night Journalism' is long. 20 minutes long. And it only highlights a couple of aspects about a few clips from a particular point in time. Watch the segment and tell me it doesn't have merit.


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Old 02-22-2018, 02:46 AM   #35
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maybe if these 'critics' weren't canadian or british, their words would carry more weight. it just reeks of foreign individuals simply trying to point out their differences in their culture to americans, but in the end, they forget how many atrocities their countries have committed over time too

it would be like me, trying to implement australian values on americans due to the aussie culture and how it fits my 'comfort zone'. when you see me telling you mericans should give up your guns because aussies did it one time would make me blind to what its like to 'be' american
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Old 02-22-2018, 05:24 AM   #36
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NO

It would be like you trying to discuss the news and issues of the day on Assie TV. People who didn't like what you said, or how you said it, would discount your thoughts because your not born in Australia... People who listened were, at least, forced to think about what your point was

. It is what it is: Political humor. You want real news?



But you can't because you don't have a TV show, Oliver does. Actually you should call HBO.
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Old 02-22-2018, 08:44 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nickhead View Post
maybe if these 'critics' weren't canadian or british, their words would carry more weight. it just reeks of foreign individuals simply trying to point out their differences in their culture to americans, but in the end, they forg/et how many atrocities their countries have committed over time too

it would be like me, trying to implement australian values on americans due to the aussie culture and how it fits my 'comfort zone'. when you see me telling you mericans should give up your guns because aussies did it one time would make me blind to what its like to 'be' american
Samantha Bee is an American citizen.

John Oliver is going to become one as soon as he is eligible. His American wife volunteered after 9/11. She served in Iraq for 16 months. Was an army medic in the battle of Fullajah. Saved countless life's. Now is an advocate for veterans rights. You think someone like that would be married to Oliver if he was trying to impose another countries values on us?
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Old 02-22-2018, 08:49 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
Ah, and step number three is where you’re mischaracterizing these guys, and epically so. This is precisely why you’re twisted up about these guys.

Ask yourself: what comedic editorial trick did the Daily Show master under Jon Stewart?

Playing clips of politicians and media figures shamelessly contradicting themselves for political expediency. The Daily Show also earned a reputation for playing soundbites of hilariously stupid arguments made by the media and those in power and shitting all over them for it. Colbert Report mastered that. Oliver and Bee take it to the next level by shattering the arguments that those in power are making — and we know they are making those arguments because both Oliver and Bee play clips of them making those arguments.

So to correct your reductive pattern of Stewart/Colbert/Oliver/Bee:

They have an idea.
They wonder why that idea hasn’t been enacted.
They then play clips of people in power and the media saying why it hasn’t been enacted.
They then call their bullshit, and present their counterargument.

That’s why these shows are influential editorials. They are funny, but they actionably take a stand that you can evaluate.

To call them “comedic fiction” is ridiculous.
Bee is clearly comedic fiction. Sorry, she is. Starting with a predetermined destination is no way to argue your point, at least not with any critical thinking involved.

Oliver is quite a bit better, but clearly has his own bias/blind spots as do we all. Plenty of critical thinking goes on with his show. I don't always agree with the conclusions, but I don't see any hard line agendas. There are often slants towards the left, but I think they are expected due to who Oliver is. I like that he calls out the lefts BS often enough to maintain some credibility.
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Old 02-22-2018, 08:58 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by lawrenceRaider View Post
Bee is clearly comedic fiction. Sorry, she is. Starting with a predetermined destination is no way to argue your point, at least not with any critical thinking involved.

Oliver is quite a bit better, but clearly has his own bias/blind spots as do we all. Plenty of critical thinking goes on with his show. I don't always agree with the conclusions, but I don't see any hard line agendas. There are often slants towards the left, but I think they are expected due to who Oliver is. I like that he calls out the lefts BS often enough to maintain some credibility.
Oliver has his own particular method of deflecting from his weaker arguments.

The triumph as well as the tragedy is, that method is usually the most entertaining part of the segment.

When he does the 3-second sound byte thing, rather than misrepresenting the balance of the quoted person's argument or slandering the intent, he veers into an absurdist tangent.

Senator X: [3-second soundbyte]

John: How can you say that Senator X? That's as dumb as asking a frog to carry your pocketwatch. A frog can't tell time, and it doesn't have pockets.

GIVE ME BACK MY WATCH MR. FROG! YOU HAVE NO USE FOR MY WATCH MR. FROG!!

[pounds desk]
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Old 02-22-2018, 10:01 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baby Lee View Post
Oliver has his own particular method of deflecting from his weaker arguments.

The triumph as well as the tragedy is, that method is usually the most entertaining part of the segment.

When he does the 3-second sound byte thing, rather than misrepresenting the balance of the quoted person's argument or slandering the intent, he veers into an absurdist tangent.

Senator X: [3-second soundbyte]

John: How can you say that Senator X? That's as dumb as asking a frog to carry your pocketwatch. A frog can't tell time, and it doesn't have pockets.

GIVE ME BACK MY WATCH MR. FROG! YOU HAVE NO USE FOR MY WATCH MR. FROG!!

[pounds desk]
It is comedy, and for the most part funny as hell.
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Old 02-22-2018, 10:24 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by lawrenceRaider View Post
It is comedy, and for the most part funny as hell.
Which is absolutely fine. I watch the show every week and enjoy it, even when I'm bemused. But that's because I enjoy consuming media in order to fact check it much as most enjoy watching fiction for the stories. It exercises my 'discernment muscles.'

What's important though, is that the takeway for most from the 'example' I created above is 'frogs with pocketwatches are funny,' not so much 'John Oliver convinced me Senator X is a bad person.'
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Old 02-22-2018, 02:14 PM   #42
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Which is absolutely fine. I watch the show every week and enjoy it, even when I'm bemused. But that's because I enjoy consuming media in order to fact check it much as most enjoy watching fiction for the stories. It exercises my 'discernment muscles.'

What's important though, is that the takeway for most from the 'example' I created above is 'frogs with pocketwatches are funny,' not so much 'John Oliver convinced me Senator X is a bad person.'
I never took away that it was supposed to make me think Senator X was a bad person. It's a quote out of context. Intelligent people, yes I realize that excludes the majority of the nation, get that.
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Old 02-22-2018, 02:43 PM   #43
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I used to think Bee was one of the best parts of the Daily Show, and I was very excited that she got her own gig .

But my god....that show is ****ing god awful. The....same....shit....night...after....night. It's jut a lazy show to me. Hmm...wonder if I should tune into Sam Bee tonight?....I wonder if she'll make some Trump jokes?
She's the Amy Schumer of types of shows.

The Colbert Report was awesome; but his show now sucks ass as well (likely due to the fact he's no longer playing a character).

I do enjoy Oliver's show however, even though I don't always agree with him, I still get quite a bit of laughs. I enjoy that, for the most part, he has a fairly decent range of topics. He still sticks his toe into the Trump pool (ie, lazy) a bit too often, but not nearly as much as the others.

Kimmel blows hard, and comes across as condescending. Nothing like getting lectured to by a guy who used to do fart jokes on The Man Show.

The fact that a large segment of society gets their 'news' from these shows is frightening.
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Old 02-22-2018, 02:52 PM   #44
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I used to think Bee was one of the best parts of the Daily Show, and I was very excited that she got her own gig .

But my god....that show is ****ing god awful. The....same....shit....night...after....night. It's jut a lazy show to me. Hmm...wonder if I should tune into Sam Bee tonight?....I wonder if she'll make some Trump jokes?
She's the Amy Schumer of types of shows.

The Colbert Report was awesome; but his show now sucks ass as well (likely due to the fact he's no longer playing a character).

I do enjoy Oliver's show however, even though I don't always agree with him, I still get quite a bit of laughs. I enjoy that, for the most part, he has a fairly decent range of topics. He still sticks his toe into the Trump pool (ie, lazy) a bit too often, but not nearly as much as the others.

Kimmel blows hard, and comes across as condescending. Nothing like getting lectured to by a guy who used to do fart jokes on The Man Show.

The fact that a large segment of society gets their 'news' from these shows is frightening.
Kimmel bought into the hype and has far too high an opinion of himself.
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Old 02-22-2018, 02:57 PM   #45
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He is not a journalist. He doesn't pretend to be anything but partisan. Its his show. It's his opinions.

He's doing something no one has done before. Combine in depth research, mostly boring deep dives into an issue with buffoon, low brow comedic bits and snark.
Umm... that has been done before.

Every late night talk show has turned into the Daily Show. There's like 40 copy cats of that show now. They're just more partisan and less funny.

It's not new. I'm actually pretty bored with it. I'm generally tired of famous people thinking their fame gives them moral authority to lecture me perpetually. These people sermonize more than Billy Graham. I'm bored with yuppies telling stupid people what to think.

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