***Official 2016 STL Cardinals Thread***

[BigRedChief]

• 2011 World Series Championship
• 2012 NLCS. One win from another WS appearance.
• 2013 World Series. Two wins from another World Series Championship
• 2014 NLCS. Three wins from another WS appearance
• 2015 Central Division title. Won 100 games. Lost in the NLDS.
• Made the postseason 11 times in the last 15 seasons.
• 67 post season wins since 2004. 24+ wins more than any other team.

SI article on our off season, Gives us a "A". ??:
http://www.si.com/mlb/2016/02/12/win...ouis-cardinals

2015 III thread:
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=295296
2015 II thread:
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=293412
2015 I thread:
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=289085

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by jd1020

Right choice, imo.

The guy is a platoon bat with negative value on defense. He would accept the $17M offer and then what happens if the Cards get stuck with the Moss that ended the season?

i thought for sure some AL team would pay him and we would get a 1st rounder out of him.

[BigRedChief]

BTW, congrats to JD and the rest of the Cubs fans that post in here.

You were the best team in baseball this year and deserved to win the title.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

And yet the last two years he's finished our season and then won a WS. And while Matheny's seasons have all ended in 3 straight playoff losses (until he didn't make it) because he simply doesn't have a plan B, Maddon just came back from down 3-1.

Do you think there's any chance Matheny could bring a team back from down 3-1? Give him the same roster Maddon has and that series is over in 5. They don't even make it back to Cleveland.

as you know, I'm no Matheny fan. As Hamas mentioned he obviously has some skills in managing the clubhouse/locker room. I knew it was coming so it doesn't bother me too much.

I wanted Maddon when Larussa left. Knew him from Tampa. I thought he managed the Series like Matheny would have managed it overall. So.....maybe meathead isn't so bad?

[kcpasco]

Really only 1 bad contract on this team in Mike Leake. I hope he rebounds but not getting my hopes up.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by kcpasco

Really only 1 bad contract on this team in Mike Leake. I hope he rebounds but not getting my hopes up.

I read an article that talked about the coming off season and the $100+ million contracts. Basically it was less than 3% of the contracts returned the WAR value to the team. The Holliday contract was one of the few that the team got their money's worth out of the contract.

Their theory was the best contracts were in the $50 million range for the best bang for the buck.

And even though the Waino and Molina contracts are being overpaid per their current production, they both provide leadership on and off the field that's hard to calculate a $ worth to the team but is still valuable.

[raybec 4]

Just read the Cards traded Jaime Garcia to the Braves for prospects, on my phone so I can't link it.

Edit to add link
http://www.mlbdailydish.com/2016/12/...-garcia-braves

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Cool

[raybec 4]

They got 2 below average right handers and Lenny Dykstra's kid

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by raybec 4

They got 2 below average right handers and Lenny Dykstra's kid

One of them (Ellis) could be a potential 4th starter. I kinda like him.

I look at the ceilings as Lance Lynn (ellis), Seth Maness (Gant) and Greg Garcia (Dykstra).

Not a lot to get excited about as none of them are more than 50% likely to even hit that. I'd have probably held onto him to see if I could get a good year and a QO out of him. At worst, you lose on out a chance to get...well not much really.

They'll save a few bucks that I expect end up being spent fairly poorly on middle of the road players that cost too much in FA.

[ChiefsCountry]

Here you go:
http://www.101sports.com/2016/12/02/...trade-atlanta/

http://www.101sports.com/2016/12/02/...time-big-move/

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by ChiefsCountry

Here you go:
http://www.101sports.com/2016/12/02/...trade-atlanta/

http://www.101sports.com/2016/12/02/...time-big-move/

Mozeliak picked the wrong year.

There's not a difference maker of any sort on the market. His 'payroll muscle' last year turned limp in a hurry and he left the winter meetings with his tail between his legs only to later set $80 million on fire in the form of Mike Leake.

Cespedes is gone, Encarnacion is a DH (Bautista should be as well). Turner's a good player but I don't think the Cards are in the right spot in the competitive cycle anyway.

I see one big money move worth making and that would be signing Chapman and converting him to a starter.

Otherwise they should just sit on their hands and wait for the insane 2018 FA class. They aren't catching the Cubs and if the go out there and spend and if they end up spending $18 million/season on Turner plus $17 million/season on Leake, that's $35 million that could've gone to actual difference makers like Machado or Harper. Throw in their huge cable contract and there's no reason they couldn't be major players there.

But Leake signified that Moe's likely to address FA the same way he addresses the trade deadline every year; death by 1000 papercuts. Never taking a risk....never getting much of a reward either.

[jd1020]

Originally Posted by ChiefsCountry

Here you go:
http://www.101sports.com/2016/12/02/...trade-atlanta/

http://www.101sports.com/2016/12/02/...time-big-move/

I dont see how they got more than expected. The 2 pitchers they got are regarded as ceiling bottom of the rotation starters and the position player they got sounds like a bench player/pinch runner.

3 hope and pray players is about what you could expect.

[Miles]

Garcia managed to rebound well after a few years of looking like his shoulder wouldn't let him pitch again. Don't mind the trade but will miss the occasional games when he had lights out stuff but won't miss those when he didn't.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by Miles

Garcia managed to rebound well after a few years of looking like his shoulder wouldn't let him pitch again. Don't mind the trade but will miss the occasional games when he had lights out stuff but won't miss those when he didn't.

We got a couple of possible #4 starters out of him, more than I thought he was worth. His meltdowns in the playoffs cost us games and contributed to losing series.

Its time to move on to a different era. They need to spend some money and make things happen. There is no need to be an also ran in our division. Make some damn moves. Spend some money.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

We got a couple of possible #4 starters out of him, more than I thought he was worth. His meltdowns in the playoffs cost us games and contributed to losing series.

Its time to move on to a different era. They need to spend some money and make things happen. There is no need to be an also ran in our division. Make some damn moves. Spend some money.

I'd like to take this opportunity to re-state my desire to trade for Joey Votto and Billy Hamilton.

By absorbing Votto's entire contract you'd get a discount on Hamilton. And Votto himself would be a huge boost for the next 3 years while you wait and hope that the guys in the low minors are actually worth a damn.

Then you talk to the Mets about Conforto. With Walker in his walk year, they could use a 2b.

Weaver and Grichuk for Votto and Hamilton would be more than enough. Then Wong to the Mets for Conforto.

Your new lineup:

Carpenter, 3b
Conforto, LF
Votto, 1b
Piscotty, RF
Diaz, SS
Molina, C
Gyorko, 2b
P
Hamilton, CF

Ideally you don't even have to give up Grichuk but could instead give up Bader. Then you put Grichuk in RF and Piscotty in LF. The Conforto deal would still be a nice one to make but it's not a given they'd be interested in Wong and giving up Gyorko would hurt our power production quite a bit. If we could trade Bader instead of Grichuk thus saving Gyorko, that remains a pretty dangerous lineup (you just move Diaz to the two hole and Grichuk slots in and 6th where he belongs).

And if by chance Hamilton actually turned a corner in August and learned to use his speed correctly (it appears he might have), you make him your leadoff hitter and let him destroy worlds. Hamilton, Carpenter, Votto, Piscotty, Diaz is a damn tough 1-5.

Absorbing a contract is the only way to intelligently spend this off-season, IMO. Because there's nobody in FA worth spending on unless you want to convert Chapman to SP.

An alternative is taking on Greinke's hellish deal in order to get Goldschmidt or Pollack. But Greinke's contract has an AAV of a staggering $35 million for the next 5 seasons. Just a remarkably bad contract. If you wanted to take it on, you could possibly get Pollack or Goldy for free.