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Old 09-21-2018, 12:05 PM  
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Rosenstein Suggested He Secretly Record Trump and Discussed 25th Amendment

NY Times latest bombshell? Trump's twitter account will be busy tonight...

WASHINGTON — The deputy attorney general, Rod J. Rosenstein, suggested last year that he secretly record President Trump in the White House to expose the chaos consuming the administration, and he discussed recruiting cabinet members to invoke the 25th Amendment to remove Mr. Trump from office for being unfit.

Mr. Rosenstein made these suggestions in the spring of 2017 when Mr. Trump’s firing of James B. Comey as F.B.I. director plunged the White House into turmoil. Over the ensuing days, the president divulged classified intelligence to Russians in the Oval Office, and revelations emerged that Mr. Trump had asked Mr. Comey to pledge loyalty and end an investigation into a senior aide.

Mr. Rosenstein was just two weeks into his job. He had begun overseeing the Russia investigation and played a key role in the president’s dismissal of Mr. Comey by writing a memo critical of his handling of the Hillary Clinton email investigation. But Mr. Rosenstein was caught off guard when Mr. Trump cited the memo in the firing, and he began telling people that he feared he had been used.

Mr. Rosenstein made the remarks about secretly recording Mr. Trump and about the 25th Amendment in meetings and conversations with other Justice Department and F.B.I. officials. Several people described the episodes, insisting on anonymity to discuss internal deliberations. The people were briefed either on the events themselves or on memos written by F.B.I. officials, including Andrew G. McCabe, then the acting bureau director, that documented Mr. Rosenstein’s actions and comments.

None of Mr. Rosenstein’s proposals apparently came to fruition. It is not clear how determined he was about seeing them through, though he did tell Mr. McCabe that he might be able to persuade Attorney General Jeff Sessions and John F. Kelly, then the secretary of homeland security and now the White House chief of staff, to mount an effort to invoke the 25th Amendment.

The extreme suggestions show Mr. Rosenstein’s state of mind in the disorienting days that followed Mr. Comey’s dismissal. Sitting in on Mr. Trump’s interviews with prospective F.B.I. directors and facing attacks for his own role in Mr. Comey’s firing, Mr. Rosenstein had an up-close view of the tumult. Mr. Rosenstein appeared conflicted, regretful and emotional, according to people who spoke with him at the time.

Mr. Rosenstein disputed this account.

“The New York Times’s story is inaccurate and factually incorrect,” he said in a statement. “I will not further comment on a story based on anonymous sources who are obviously biased against the department and are advancing their own personal agenda. But let me be clear about this: Based on my personal dealings with the president, there is no basis to invoke the 25th Amendment.”

A Justice Department spokeswoman also provided a statement from a person who was present when Mr. Rosenstein proposed wearing a wire. The person, who would not be named, acknowledged the remark but said Mr. Rosenstein made it sarcastically.

But according to the others who described his comments, Mr. Rosenstein not only confirmed that he was serious about the idea but also followed up by suggesting that other F.B.I. officials who were interviewing to be the bureau’s director could also secretly record Mr. Trump.

Mr. McCabe, who was later fired from the F.B.I., declined to comment. His memos have been turned over to the special counsel investigating whether Trump associates conspired with Russia’s election interference, Robert S. Mueller III, according to a lawyer for Mr. McCabe. “A set of those memos remained at the F.B.I. at the time of his departure in late January 2018,” the lawyer, Michael R. Bromwich, said of his client. “He has no knowledge of how any member of the media obtained those memos.”

The revelations about Mr. Rosenstein come as Mr. Trump has unleashed another round of attacks in recent days on federal law enforcement, saying in an interview with the Hill newspaper that he hopes his assaults on the F.B.I. turn out to be “one of my crowning achievements” and that he only wished he had terminated Mr. Comey sooner.

“If I did one mistake with Comey, I should have fired him before I got here. I should have fired him the day I won the primaries,” Mr. Trump said. “I should have fired him right after the convention. Say, ‘I don’t want that guy.’ Or at least fired him the first day on the job.”

Days after ascending to the role of the nation’s No. 2 law enforcement officer, Mr. Rosenstein was thrust into a crisis.

On a brisk May day, Mr. Rosenstein and his boss, Mr. Sessions, joined Mr. Trump in the Oval Office, where the president informed them of his plan to oust Mr. Comey. To the surprise of White House aides who were trying to talk the president out of it, Mr. Rosenstein embraced the idea, even offering to write the memo about the Clinton email inquiry. He turned it in shortly after.

A day later, Mr. Trump announced the firing, and White House aides released Mr. Rosenstein’s memo, labeling it the basis for Mr. Comey’s dismissal. Democrats sharply criticized Mr. Rosenstein, accusing him of helping to create a cover story for the president to rationalize the termination.

“You wrote a memo you knew would be used to perpetuate a lie,” Senator Christopher Murphy, Democrat of Connecticut, wrote on Twitter. "You own this debacle.”

The president’s reliance on his memo caught Mr. Rosenstein by surprise, and he became angry at Mr. Trump, according to people who spoke to Mr. Rosenstein at the time. He grew concerned that his reputation had suffered harm and wondered whether Mr. Trump had motives beyond Mr. Comey’s treatment of Mrs. Clinton for ousting him, the people said.

A determined Mr. Rosenstein began telling associates that he would ultimately be “vindicated” for his role in the matter. One week after the firing, Mr. Rosenstein met with Mr. McCabe and at least four other senior Justice Department officials, in part to explain his role in the situation.

During their discussion, Mr. Rosenstein expressed frustration at how Mr. Trump had conducted the search for a new F.B.I. director, saying the president was failing to take the candidate interviews seriously. A handful of politicians and law enforcement officials, including Mr. McCabe, were under consideration.

To Mr. Rosenstein, the hiring process was emblematic of broader dysfunction stemming from the White House. He said both the process and the administration itself were in disarray, according to two people familiar with the discussion.

Mr. Rosenstein then raised the idea of wearing a recording device or “wire,” as he put it, to secretly tape the president when he visited the White House. One participant asked whether Mr. Rosenstein was serious, and he replied animatedly that he was.

If not him, then Mr. McCabe or other F.B.I. officials interviewing with Mr. Trump for the job could perhaps wear a wire or otherwise record the president, Mr. Rosenstein offered. White House officials never checked his phone when he arrived for meetings there, Mr. Rosenstein added, implying it would be easy to secretly record Mr. Trump.

The suggestion itself was remarkable. While informants or undercover agents regularly use concealed listening devices to surreptitiously gather evidence for federal investigators, they are typically targeting drug kingpins and Mafia bosses in criminal investigations, not a president viewed as ineffectively conducting his duties.

In the end, the idea went nowhere, the officials said. But they called Mr. Rosenstein’s comments an example of how erratically he was behaving while he was taking part in the interviews for a replacement F.B.I. director, considering the appointment of a special counsel and otherwise running the day-to-day operations of the more than 100,000 people at the Justice Department.

Mr. Rosenstein’s suggestion about the 25th Amendment was similarly a sensitive topic. The amendment allows for the vice president and majority of cabinet officials to declare the president is “unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office.”

Merely conducting a straw poll, even if Mr. Kelly and Mr. Sessions were on board, would be risky if another administration official were to tell the president, who could fire everyone involved to end the effort.

Mr. McCabe told other F.B.I. officials of his conversation with Mr. Rosenstein. None of the people interviewed said that they knew of him ever consulting Mr. Kelly or Mr. Sessions.

The episode is the first known instance of a named senior administration official weighing the 25th Amendment. Unidentified others have been said to discuss it, including an unnamed senior administration official who wrote an Op-Ed for The New York Times. That person’s identity is unknown to journalists in the Times news department.

Some of the details in Mr. McCabe’s memos suggested that Mr. Rosenstein had regrets about the firing of Mr. Comey. During a May 12 meeting with Mr. McCabe, Mr. Rosenstein was upset and emotional, Mr. McCabe wrote, and said that he wished Mr. Comey were still at the F.B.I. so he could bounce ideas off him.

Mr. Rosenstein also asked F.B.I. officials on May 14, five days after Mr. Comey’s firing, about calling him for advice about a special counsel. The officials responded that such a call was a bad idea because Mr. Comey was no longer in the government. And they were surprised, believing that the idea contradicted Mr. Rosenstein’s stated reason for backing Mr. Comey’s dismissal — that he had shown bad judgment in the Clinton email inquiry.

Mr. Rosenstein, 53, is a lifelong public servant. After graduating from the University of Pennsylvania and Harvard Law School, he clerked for a federal judge before joining the Justice Department in 1990 and was appointed United States attorney for Maryland.

Mr. Rosenstein also considered appointing as special counsel James M. Cole, himself a former deputy attorney general, three of the people said. Mr. Cole would have made an even richer target for Mr. Trump’s ire than has Mr. Mueller, a lifelong Republican: Mr. Cole served four years as the No. 2 in the Justice Department during the Obama administration and worked as a private lawyer representing one of Mrs. Clinton’s longtime confidants, Sidney Blumenthal.

Mr. Cole and Mr. Rosenstein have known each for years. Mr. Cole, who declined to comment, was Mr. Rosenstein’s supervisor early in his Justice Department career when he was prosecuting public corruption cases.

Mr. Trump and his allies have repeatedly attacked Mr. Rosenstein, who oversees the Russia investigation because Mr. Sessions recused himself because of his role as a prominent Trump campaign supporter. Many of those same critics also have targeted Mr. McCabe, who was fired in March for failing to be forthcoming in a Justice Department inspector general investigation. Mr. McCabe’s actions were referred to federal prosecutors in Washington.

The president’s allies have seized on Mr. McCabe’s lack of candor to paint a damning picture of the F.B.I. under Mr. Comey and assert the Russia investigation is tainted.

The Justice Department denied a request in late July from Mr. Trump’s congressional allies to release Mr. McCabe’s memos, citing an ongoing investigation that the lawmakers believed to be Mr. Mueller’s. Mr. Rosenstein not only supervises that investigation but is considered by the president’s lawyers as a witness for their defense because he also sought the dismissal of Mr. Comey, which is being investigated as possible obstruction of justice.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/21/us/politics/rod-rosenstein-wear-wire-25th-amendment.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage
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Old 09-21-2018, 05:23 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by kcxiv View Post
but isnt NYT fake news? so this shouldnt mean anything? sarcasm or not correct?
Yes they are fake news, this is an attempt to get Trump to fire RR to "cross red line." Which will fail. FISA declass is all it's going to take to bring it down.

Now ask yourself "why would the NYT try to do something like that?"
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Old 09-21-2018, 05:58 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Bump View Post
Yes they are fake news, this is an attempt to get Trump to fire RR to "cross red line." Which will fail. FISA declass is all it's going to take to bring it down.

Now ask yourself "why would the NYT try to do something like that?"
Because they have the best interests of the nation in mind, and goading Trump into firing Rosenstein would be a disaster for Trump?
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Old 09-21-2018, 07:07 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Lex Luthor View Post
Because they have the best interests of the nation in mind, and goading Trump into firing Rosenstein would be a disaster for Trump?
Give me a break the NYT does not have our best interest in mind. That said the last part of your sentence you managed to hit the nail right on the head, congratulations.
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Old 09-21-2018, 07:45 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Lex Luthor View Post
Because they have the best interests of the nation in mind, and goading Trump into firing Rosenstein would be a disaster for Trump?
Jesus Christ. You get a gold star in mental gymnastics.
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Old 09-21-2018, 07:58 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by oaklandhater View Post

This is one of those points where we hope there are adults in the room
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Old 09-21-2018, 08:29 PM   #36
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Such a strange report. It’s clear that there are long knives out at the DoJ but who is trying to stab who?

The whole “it was a joke” narrative that the left is coalescing around makes zero sense in the context of the full reporting. Was he joking about wearing a wire the subsequent time he said it? When he claimed he could get others to do it? When he brought up the 25th Amendment? When he talked about enlisting Sessions and Kelly? The only reason people are accepting the joke theory is because someone else from DoJ is backing up Rosenstein. Maybe for all the right reasons but maybe not.

I’d guess a lot of this was put out there by McCabe or others who thought unredacted docs were coming soon. When Trump reversed course it probably left whoever was peddling this story (and it sure sounds like it was McCabe, but who knows) flat-footed.

Regardless the DoJ and FBI sounds like they are every bit as chaotic as they claim the Trump administration is — but a very strange story indeed.
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Old 09-21-2018, 08:29 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Bump View Post
Yes they are fake news, this is an attempt to get Trump to fire RR to "cross red line." Which will fail. FISA declass is all it's going to take to bring it down.

Now ask yourself "why would the NYT try to do something like that?"
This is someone in the DOJ/FBI looking to kill two birds with one stone. Trying to get Rosenstein fired and then leads to Trump impeachment. Also someone that doesn’t want the FISA declassification to take place.

Either way the DOJ is a mess, Sessions might be the most inept AG in some time.
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Old 09-21-2018, 08:46 PM   #38
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Little Rosenstein's reputation suffered harm? Haha
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Old 09-21-2018, 10:30 PM   #39
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Cant figure out who Rosenstein reminds me of. But he sure is a greasy fellow.


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Old 09-21-2018, 10:38 PM   #40
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Setting up Rosenstein as a pretext to firing him would not surprise me. Gotta have a good cover story and with Manafort in the bag and Cohen spilling on Russer, Trump needs to get something going.

That Trump is unfit as a president is well established.
Good to see you still clinging to “Manafort in the bag”.
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Old 09-21-2018, 11:47 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by oaklandhater View Post

This is highly inappropriate for the man overseeing an investigation to say it sarcastically... you get that, right?
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Old 09-21-2018, 11:50 PM   #42
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Rosenstein has denied this.

What's the standard today if someone denies something?


Oh yeah:

Did Rosenstein say this in High School when he was 17, 36 years ago, and no one else remembers it?
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Old 09-22-2018, 12:26 AM   #43
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This whole story is hilarious. The best part of it is how sober Rosenstein gets when he realizes that Trump completely played him. His reaction: 'Based on my personal dealings with the president, there is no basis to invoke the 25th Amendment.' Hahaha! That's a man who recognizes he's been owned.

I don't know how anyone can read that article and not conclude what I've been telling you all along: the Trump Presidency is a sting operation on the Deep State. All this dumbshit talk about hoping there are "adults in the room..." Moronic. There always has been. Who do you think Trump is working for? Who does he keep around him? This is not what you think it is. This is organized chaos. Trump is a face of a military operation to sweep the corruption out of our government.

I asked the question when it happened, I'll ask it again: how and why did Trump leverage Rosenstein to turn on Comey and write a letter in Trump's own voice that gave Trump the political footing to fire Comey? And why?
On a brisk May day, Mr. Rosenstein and his boss, Mr. Sessions, who had recused himself from the Russia investigation because of his role as a prominent Trump campaign supporter, joined Mr. Trump in the Oval Office. The president informed them of his plan to oust Mr. Comey. To the surprise of White House aides who were trying to talk the president out of it, Mr. Rosenstein embraced the idea, even offering to write the memo about the Clinton email inquiry. He turned it in shortly after... The president’s reliance on his memo caught Mr. Rosenstein by surprise, and he became angry at Mr. Trump, according to people who spoke to Mr. Rosenstein at the time. He grew concerned that his reputation had suffered harm.
What a dipshit. This doesn't even make sense. Rosenstein is a crooked cop, and Trump is operating him like a forklift.

This whole thing is a set-up to make these rats turn on eachother, and it's working brilliantly. Sessions recused himself so that the FBI bosses would be put on the hot seat and expose themselves for the crooks they are. Trump promised Rosenstein power, and he jumped at the chance to shove a knife in Comey's back, and then played the wounded duck who had been "shaken and felt used." Pathetic. Somebody knit this dope a pink hat.

I don't know what some of you are imagining is going to happen next but it's not going going to go well for Mr. Rosenstein. If he doesn't end up taking his own life, he'll end up behind bars. The music is ending, and he's looking like someone without a seat to sit in. What is NOT going to happen is Mueller charging Trump with collusion or obstruction. The first didn't happen, and Rosenstein saw to the second one.
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Old 09-22-2018, 08:42 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by Taco John View Post
This whole story is hilarious. The best part of it is how sober Rosenstein gets when he realizes that Trump completely played him. His reaction: 'Based on my personal dealings with the president, there is no basis to invoke the 25th Amendment.' Hahaha! That's a man who recognizes he's been owned.

I don't know how anyone can read that article and not conclude what I've been telling you all along: the Trump Presidency is a sting operation on the Deep State. All this dumbshit talk about hoping there are "adults in the room..." Moronic. There always has been. Who do you think Trump is working for? Who does he keep around him? This is not what you think it is. This is organized chaos. Trump is a face of a military operation to sweep the corruption out of our government.

I asked the question when it happened, I'll ask it again: how and why did Trump leverage Rosenstein to turn on Comey and write a letter in Trump's own voice that gave Trump the political footing to fire Comey? And why?
On a brisk May day, Mr. Rosenstein and his boss, Mr. Sessions, who had recused himself from the Russia investigation because of his role as a prominent Trump campaign supporter, joined Mr. Trump in the Oval Office. The president informed them of his plan to oust Mr. Comey. To the surprise of White House aides who were trying to talk the president out of it, Mr. Rosenstein embraced the idea, even offering to write the memo about the Clinton email inquiry. He turned it in shortly after... The president’s reliance on his memo caught Mr. Rosenstein by surprise, and he became angry at Mr. Trump, according to people who spoke to Mr. Rosenstein at the time. He grew concerned that his reputation had suffered harm.
What a dipshit. This doesn't even make sense. Rosenstein is a crooked cop, and Trump is operating him like a forklift.

This whole thing is a set-up to make these rats turn on eachother, and it's working brilliantly. Sessions recused himself so that the FBI bosses would be put on the hot seat and expose themselves for the crooks they are. Trump promised Rosenstein power, and he jumped at the chance to shove a knife in Comey's back, and then played the wounded duck who had been "shaken and felt used." Pathetic. Somebody knit this dope a pink hat.

I don't know what some of you are imagining is going to happen next but it's not going going to go well for Mr. Rosenstein. If he doesn't end up taking his own life, he'll end up behind bars. The music is ending, and he's looking like someone without a seat to sit in. What is NOT going to happen is Mueller charging Trump with collusion or obstruction. The first didn't happen, and Rosenstein saw to the second one.
I hope you are right.
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Old 09-22-2018, 08:51 PM   #45
patteeu patteeu is offline
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Since it's complicated for Trump to fire Rosenstein, what he should do between now and the midterms, is have Rosenstein patted down or strip searched every time he comes to the WH to brief the POTUS.
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