Life You break it, you buy it. Teen learns the hard way. - Page 2

**Rain Man** · 05-22-2018, 01:34 PM

The part about letting him have a pay schedule made me laugh.

In all seriousness, how do you punish someone for a crime like this? Prison seems off target (maybe), but $36 million is basically a life sentence. Maybe that's appropriate, but it was one bad decision by a 15 year old.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/21/us/te...rnd/index.html

Teen who started fire that burned 48,000 acres ordered to pay $36 million

When you play with fire, there are bound to be consequences.

For one teenager, that consequence comes with the jarring price tag of $36 million.

On Monday, an Oregon judge ordered the boy, who pleaded guilty to starting the Eagle Creek wildfire last year, to pay $36,618,330.24 in restitution to cover the damages.

The teen said he tossed fireworks in the woods while hiking on Eagle Creek trail on Sept. 2, 2017, according to court documents obtained by CNN. One of those fireworks ignited the massive wildfire in Oregon, which burned more than 48,000 acres.

The Vancouver, Washington, youth, who was 15 at the time of the incident, appeared at a hearing on Thursday. He is not being named because he's a minor. The 11 claims from the state and other parties totaled $36 million, something the teen's attorney called absurd, according to CNN affiliate KOIN.

The teen's attorney, Jack Morris, said the hefty fine violated the Oregon and US Constitutions, citing the Eighth Amendment, which protects people from excessive fines and "cruel and unusual punishment," according to the judge's written opinion.

Hood River County Circuit Court Judge John A. Olson wrote in his opinion that the judgment doesn't violate the constitution. "The restitution is clearly proportionate to the offense because it does not exceed the financial damages caused by the youth," he wrote.

"I'm satisfied that the restitution ordered in this case bears a sufficient relationship to the gravity of the offenses for which the youth was adjudicated," he wrote.

CNN tried to contact Morris, the defense lawyer, on Monday but he did not call back.

The order says the following organizations and people should be receiving money:

$5,000 to Iris Schenk
$8,111.44 to Allstate Insurance
$31,550.90 to Oregon State Parks
$100,000 to Heuker Properties
$168,000 to Trail Club of Oregon
$1,048,877.52 to Union Pacific Railroad
$1,643,035.38 to Oregon State Fire Marshal
$12,500,000 to Oregon Department of Transportation
$21,113,755 to US Forest Service

If the teen cannot pay the millions in full, the court has said he could establish a pay schedule through the Hood River Juvenile Department.

In February, the teenager apologized in court and was sentenced to five years probation and 1,920 hours of community service with the U.S. Forest Service, reported CNN affiliate KPTV.

Pitt Gorilla · 05-22-2018, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rain Man

I'm curious about the conversation he and his parents had afterwards. Parents, what do you say to your kid when he's just been ordered to pay $36 million in restitution? This is a genuine question, not a rhetorical one.

I'm sorry, do I know you?

**Rain Man** · 05-22-2018, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flying High D

Union Pacific Railroad definitely needs the money. Railroads have never gouged anyone ever.

Yeah, I saw that and realized that this kid is in serious trouble. From the little I know about railroads, they'll have a team of people standing next to him his entire life grabbing every paycheck, every penny he finds on the ground, and every morsel of food he picks up.

BucEyedPea · 05-22-2018, 02:49 PM

Doesn't insurance cover that for some on that list?

ClevelandBronco · 05-22-2018, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rain Man

I'm curious about the conversation he and his parents had afterwards. Parents, what do you say to your kid when he's just been ordered to pay $36 million in restitution? This is a genuine question, not a rhetorical one.

Son, it's time you give some serious thought to becoming a high-level drug dealer.

frozenchief · 05-22-2018, 02:57 PM

It doesn’t go away when he hits 19. It’s not dischargeable in bankruptcy. Even though he owes US Forestry, this appears to be in Oregon state court so it may ultimately be discharged as unpayable. In federal court, he could request relief after paying for 20 years. He might get it or might not.

**Rain Man** · 05-22-2018, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BucEyedPea

Doesn't insurance cover that for some on that list?

Yeah, but his deductible was $37 million.

Chief Pagan · 05-22-2018, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frozenchief

It doesn’t go away when he hits 19. It’s not dischargeable in bankruptcy. Even though he owes US Forestry, this appears to be in Oregon state court so it may ultimately be discharged as unpayable. In federal court, he could request relief after paying for 20 years. He might get it or might not.

If he was a minor when he caused the damage, I would have thought his parents would have been on the hook, not the teen.

Nickhead · 05-22-2018, 03:23 PM

i am sure this kid is a very bright student who will excel academically and end up with a fine job that not only allows him a decent lifestyle but will also be able to pay the amount in full

ghak99 · 05-22-2018, 03:33 PM

He might as well buy a tent and move to California or Hawaii and learn to enjoy the homeless beach life.

Amnorix · 05-22-2018, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rain Man

I'm curious about the conversation he and his parents had afterwards. Parents, what do you say to your kid when he's just been ordered to pay $36 million in restitution? This is a genuine question, not a rhetorical one.

File bankruptcy. This should not be non-dischargeable debt.

Amnorix · 05-22-2018, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frozenchief

It doesn’t go away when he hits 19. It’s not dischargeable in bankruptcy. Even though he owes US Forestry, this appears to be in Oregon state court so it may ultimately be discharged as unpayable. In federal court, he could request relief after paying for 20 years. He might get it or might not.

I'm no bankruptcy lawyer. Why wouldn't it be dischargeable?

EDIT: Urf, never mind. This is criminal restitution, not civil payments on a lawsuit. Probably not dischargeable. Yeah, he's ****ed. Move overseas. I'm dead serious.

stevieray · 05-22-2018, 03:38 PM

Boy, is he going to have excellent credit.

frozenchief · 05-22-2018, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Pagan

If he was a minor when he caused the damage, I would have thought his parents would have been on the hook, not the teen.

Some states will allow that but it is highly dependent upon the law of the jurisdiction. I don't know Oregon law but wanted to give an overview of laws that generally apply in these types of cases.

frozenchief · 05-22-2018, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnorix

I'm no bankruptcy lawyer. Why wouldn't it be dischargeable?

EDIT: Urf, never mind. This is criminal restitution, not civil payments on a lawsuit. Probably not dischargeable. Yeah, he's ****ed. Move overseas. I'm dead serious.

Yeah, bankruptcy law prohibits discharge of a criminal restitution order in bankruptcy.

11 U.S.C. §532(a)(7). Kelly v. Robinson, 479 US 36 (1986).

Nickhead · 05-22-2018, 04:15 PM

here is my question?

with this case, will this kid be able to apply for any student loans

i joke, but this part does suck as his chances of having a college education is going to be minimal. provided his heart is in the right place and matures appropriately

05-22-2018, 01:34 PM
Rain Man NFL's #1 Ermines Fan Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: My house Casino cash: $3368491 VARSITY	You break it, you buy it. Teen learns the hard way. The part about letting him have a pay schedule made me laugh. In all seriousness, how do you punish someone for a crime like this? Prison seems off target (maybe), but $36 million is basically a life sentence. Maybe that's appropriate, but it was one bad decision by a 15 year old. https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/21/us/te...rnd/index.html Teen who started fire that burned 48,000 acres ordered to pay $36 million When you play with fire, there are bound to be consequences. For one teenager, that consequence comes with the jarring price tag of $36 million. On Monday, an Oregon judge ordered the boy, who pleaded guilty to starting the Eagle Creek wildfire last year, to pay $36,618,330.24 in restitution to cover the damages. The teen said he tossed fireworks in the woods while hiking on Eagle Creek trail on Sept. 2, 2017, according to court documents obtained by CNN. One of those fireworks ignited the massive wildfire in Oregon, which burned more than 48,000 acres. The Vancouver, Washington, youth, who was 15 at the time of the incident, appeared at a hearing on Thursday. He is not being named because he's a minor. The 11 claims from the state and other parties totaled $36 million, something the teen's attorney called absurd, according to CNN affiliate KOIN. The teen's attorney, Jack Morris, said the hefty fine violated the Oregon and US Constitutions, citing the Eighth Amendment, which protects people from excessive fines and "cruel and unusual punishment," according to the judge's written opinion. Hood River County Circuit Court Judge John A. Olson wrote in his opinion that the judgment doesn't violate the constitution. "The restitution is clearly proportionate to the offense because it does not exceed the financial damages caused by the youth," he wrote. "I'm satisfied that the restitution ordered in this case bears a sufficient relationship to the gravity of the offenses for which the youth was adjudicated," he wrote. CNN tried to contact Morris, the defense lawyer, on Monday but he did not call back. The order says the following organizations and people should be receiving money: $5,000 to Iris Schenk $8,111.44 to Allstate Insurance $31,550.90 to Oregon State Parks $100,000 to Heuker Properties $168,000 to Trail Club of Oregon $1,048,877.52 to Union Pacific Railroad $1,643,035.38 to Oregon State Fire Marshal $12,500,000 to Oregon Department of Transportation $21,113,755 to US Forest Service If the teen cannot pay the millions in full, the court has said he could establish a pay schedule through the Hood River Juvenile Department. In February, the teenager apologized in court and was sentenced to five years probation and 1,920 hours of community service with the U.S. Forest Service, reported CNN affiliate KPTV.
Posts: 141,247

05-22-2018, 02:49 PM	#18
BucEyedPea Gimme My Berries Back! Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: None of your business Casino cash: $3519963	Doesn't insurance cover that for some on that list?
Posts: 161,659

05-22-2018, 02:57 PM	#20
frozenchief Veteran Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Alaska Casino cash: $1671379	It doesn’t go away when he hits 19. It’s not dischargeable in bankruptcy. Even though he owes US Forestry, this appears to be in Oregon state court so it may ultimately be discharged as unpayable. In federal court, he could request relief after paying for 20 years. He might get it or might not.
Posts: 3,894

05-22-2018, 03:23 PM	#23
Nickhead EvOlVeD Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: Blue Mountains, Australia Casino cash: $2559868	i am sure this kid is a very bright student who will excel academically and end up with a fine job that not only allows him a decent lifestyle but will also be able to pay the amount in full
Posts: 8,220

05-22-2018, 03:33 PM	#24
ghak99 MVP Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Missouri Casino cash: $1972250	He might as well buy a tent and move to California or Hawaii and learn to enjoy the homeless beach life.
Posts: 8,190

05-22-2018, 03:38 PM	#27
stevieray best in the biz Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Under Pressure Casino cash: $2635273	Boy, is he going to have excellent credit.
Posts: 71,168

05-22-2018, 04:15 PM	#30
Nickhead EvOlVeD Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: Blue Mountains, Australia Casino cash: $2559868	here is my question? with this case, will this kid be able to apply for any student loans i joke, but this part does suck as his chances of having a college education is going to be minimal. provided his heart is in the right place and matures appropriately
Posts: 8,220