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Old 12-05-2017, 09:47 AM  
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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The history of the 2nd amendment.

I know this thread will go over like a lead balloon but I don't care. I've been reading some fascinating constitutional history and listening to a podcast and the 2nd amendment's history is so damn interesting.

We inherit the 2nd amendment, as we do virtually all of our Bill of Rights, from England.

In England, there was a longstanding fear of standing armies. Armies that were in place full time, even during times of peace, professional soldiers. Soldiers that, of course, be potentially used by the king to be wielded against the citizens, ensnaring them in a tyranny.

Matter of fact, the British shooed a military dictator off the throne for that exact reason -- I can't remember his name at this time. In his place, King James assumed the throne and gave British citizens what they wanted: militias. Every able-bodied boy and man would be called into action if needed, with no standing army needing to exist. (Oddly enough, James would eventually establish a national military and outlaw civilians owning guns.)

So that's the culture we have here in the States. The colonists were terribly afraid of a national military being established, due in part to the oppression of the British soldiers. After the Boston massacre, British troops flooded into the colonies and were housed against civilians' will in their home.

Once the revolution was completed, there were no plans to establish a national military during times of peace -- against the objections of Washington and Hamilton, who found volunteer militias to be cowardly and ineffective and wanted a trained, standing military.

But they were in the minority. The vast majority of Americans wanted no standing armies, so James Madison wrote two amendments devised to assuage their fears:

1. The second amendment, which emphasized that militias, not a standing military, were what was supposed to protect Americans, and granted individuals the right to bear arms in militias.

2. The third amendment, which prevented soldiers from being stations in domestic homes during times of peace.

Over time, of course, both of these amendments have been taken from their historical meaning. But the founders literally had no conception that we do today that there is a difference between a civilian owning a gun and a soldier owning a gun, because in the 1780's, civilians were all militia soldiers, should a threat arise.

And a standing military in the 1780's couldn't really threaten a civilian population of similarly-armed civilians. Today, however, the weapons a military can wield far outstrip anything civilians can put together.

We built a military that is bigger and badder than anything American citizens could marshal. There's no real way American citizens could resist an assault from the United States military should the military decide to roll tanks in the streets and nuke every resisting city. Instead, to negate the power of the government and its military, we've shifted to other parts of the Constitution (with mixed, but largely successful, results).

This is true in England, as well. In response to these shifting realities, they noticed over time that the only real danger civilian-owned guns posed was to other civilians, not so much the military anymore. So they've decided to drastically regulate firearms, and today they live in a world where gun violence is minimal, and their democracy is thriving with no real threat of a military dictatorship.

We too live in a country with a thriving democracy and no real threat of a military dictatorship. However we have chosen to flush our civilian society with firearms, and have instead chosen to weather the high rates of gun violence that come with it.
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Old 12-08-2017, 10:27 AM   #151
L.A. Chieffan L.A. Chieffan is offline
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Well, if we were honest and said she does, would you just accept it? Because she does.
Sure, just prove it.
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Old 12-08-2017, 10:43 AM   #152
patteeu patteeu is offline
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Originally Posted by L.A. Chieffan View Post
Yes, but I'm not going to get a serious answer from the religious freaks.

Carry on.
You mean your serious question about what God wants is aimed at the non-religious?
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Old 12-08-2017, 10:51 AM   #153
L.A. Chieffan L.A. Chieffan is offline
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You mean your serious question about what God wants is aimed at the non-religious?
No, just people that live in reality.
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Old 12-08-2017, 10:57 AM   #154
stevieray stevieray is offline
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Originally Posted by L.A. Chieffan View Post
Yes, but I'm not going to get a serious answer from the religious freaks.

Carry on.
Serious?

You honestly think God doesn't want you to have the ability to defend yourself?
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Old 12-08-2017, 11:04 AM   #155
patteeu patteeu is offline
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Originally Posted by L.A. Chieffan View Post
No, just people that live in reality.
I sense animosity to religion in you.
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Old 12-08-2017, 11:04 AM   #156
vailpass vailpass is offline
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I'm wondering what this means in English
No you aren't.
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Old 12-08-2017, 02:23 PM   #157
GloryDayz GloryDayz is offline
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Sure, just prove it.
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