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View Poll Results: Should we have invaded Iraq on 3/19/03?
Yes 16 15.53%
No 84 81.55%
Too close to call at this point. Leave it to Gaz. Also, I'm a wishy-washy fop of a human being. 3 2.91%
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Old 03-19-2013, 06:56 AM  
Amnorix Amnorix is offline
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Invasion of Iraq 10 years later: Good move or mistake

10 years ago today the US invaded Iraq to overthrow the regime of Saddam Hussein. The after-effects of that decision are still being felt to this day, and obviously will continue to play out in the years and decades to come. At this milestone, however, knowing everything that you know now, should we have gone in, or not?

Regrets and hypotheticals aren't really the goal here. We could go on and on (and have, many times) about how the post-invasion situation was handled, etc. ad infinitum. You should vote simply on the facts as they have actually occurred over the last 10 years.

Poll forthcoming. Note that it will be a public poll.
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Old 09-06-2013, 06:32 AM   #361
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I may catch heat for this but, one day Bush is going to look like a genius. Look at all of the uprisings that spread throughout the middle east after that invasion. It's not even over yet. It was the right thing to do at the time imo. Even if their weren't any WMDs.
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Old 09-06-2013, 06:38 AM   #362
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Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
I want to visit the alternate reality you live in one day.

Is the secret to entrance only getting my news from conservative talk radio?

You comparison of the Iraq war to WWII is cute.
I'm not saying they were the same. WWII was far more costly, particularly in terms of lives, than Iraq. Our people are just softer now and our democrats are more willing to put partisan political gain ahead of national interest.
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Old 09-06-2013, 06:47 AM   #363
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
I'm not saying they were the same. WWII was far more costly, particularly in terms of lives, than Iraq. Our people are just softer now and our democrats are more willing to put partisan political gain ahead of national interest.

I wonder why the American people would support WWII and not support sending Americans to die in Iraq? American's dying in Iraq protected what American national interest?

And a War time president cutting taxes while starting two wars, ballooning the deficit, is putting political gain ahead of national interest.

Oh, and our invasion of Iraq is what helped Al Qaeda gain a foothold, so invading Iraq certainly didn't help American interests in the War on Terror.

Quote:
BUSH: One of the major theaters against al Qaeda turns out to have been Iraq. This is where al Qaeda said they were going to take their stand. This is where al Qaeda was hoping to take–

RADDATZ: But not until after the U.S. invaded.

BUSH: Yeah, that’s right. So what? The point is that al Qaeda said they’re going to take a stand. Well, first of all in the post-9/11 environment Saddam Hussein posed a threat. And then upon removal, al Qaeda decides to take a stand.
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Old 09-06-2013, 06:56 AM   #364
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Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
I wonder why the American people would support WWII
They didnt up to Pearl Harbor.
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Old 09-06-2013, 06:59 AM   #365
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They didnt up to Pearl Harbor.
Yes. Which is why I asked the question.

To claim we softer now ignores much of the history of WWII and what motivated us to fight.
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Old 09-06-2013, 09:45 AM   #366
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
I wonder why the American people would support WWII and not support sending Americans to die in Iraq? American's dying in Iraq protected what American national interest?

And a War time president cutting taxes while starting two wars, ballooning the deficit, is putting political gain ahead of national interest.

Oh, and our invasion of Iraq is what helped Al Qaeda gain a foothold, so invading Iraq certainly didn't help American interests in the War on Terror.
Invading Iraq was definitely a part of the GWoT. The enemy that we are fighting is broader than card carrying al Qaeda members who were personally involved in the 9/11 plot. We're at war with a wide variety of radical islamists who have been targeting western interests for several decades now as well as the regimes who harbor them or give them support.

When Pearl Harbor drew us into WWII, we didn't just send troops to the Pacific to fight Japan. We also engaged the Germans and their allies in Europe and Africa.

We've been attacked on several occasions over the past 34 years beginning with the Iran hostage crisis and including such events as Beirut barracks bombing, the Khobar towers, embassy bombings, kidnappings, the USS Cole, the WTC twice, etc. The people we want to marginalize, defang, or kill go way beyond al Qaeda and include both sunni and shite radicals. The leaders of nations like Iraq, Iran, Libya, Sudan, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, Syria, and Pakistan, among others, all had good reason to believe they were on our shit list. Some of them decided to play ball with us to one degree or another. In the end, the Bush administration made the reasonable choice to make the Taliban and Saddam's regimes the examples. Iraq was a particularly good choice because it's people weren't totally backward, it's military was degraded, and it's leader was at odds with both the US and the international community. The biggest problems were that we didn't prepare for the politically motivated democrat insurgency on the home front and we didn't anticipate electing a guy who was incapable of taking advantage of the hard work and sacrifice that took place during the previous 6 years.
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Old 09-06-2013, 09:49 AM   #367
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Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
Yes. Which is why I asked the question.

To claim we softer now ignores much of the history of WWII and what motivated us to fight.
No, we're definitely softer now. More Americans died taking Iwo Jima over the course of 35 days than died in the entire Iraq war. And that wasn't even the most costly battle of World War II.
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Old 09-06-2013, 02:52 PM   #368
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
I'm not saying they were the same. WWII was far more costly, particularly in terms of lives, than Iraq. Our people are just softer now and our democrats are more willing to put partisan political gain ahead of national interest.

I missed the part where Saddam was actively seeking to dominate the globe like the Axis powers were. In fact, he'd already been rendered largely impotent after Gulf War I.

So the two situations are almost perfectly diametrically opposed. Other than that, your analogy works great.
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Old 09-06-2013, 02:57 PM   #369
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No, we're definitely softer now. More Americans died taking Iwo Jima over the course of 35 days than died in the entire Iraq war. And that wasn't even the most costly battle of World War II.

Maybe because intelligent decision-making takes into account the cost paid for the objective achieved? Or do you not weigh benefits against costs when you try to consider whether to go to war?

Tell me -- if you KNEW beforehand that conquering Iraq would take a half million US lives and another half million wounded, would you have still supported the invasion?
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Old 09-06-2013, 03:04 PM   #370
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The biggest problems were that we didn't prepare for the politically motivated democrat insurgency on the home front and we didn't anticipate electing a guy who was incapable of taking advantage of the hard work and sacrifice that took place during the previous 6 years.

So those "problems" were bigger than Bush/Cheney/Rummy royally ****ing up how to handle post-war Iraq for years? That's comically absurd.

The key phrase in your post is SIX YEARS. That's how long they had to get it right. That's how long they didn't get it right. Longer than the American occupation of Germany/Japan. And when you screw things up as badly as they did, there's no reason to expect your party and your policies will be continued.
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Old 09-06-2013, 03:06 PM   #371
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Originally Posted by Amnorix View Post
Maybe because intelligent decision-making takes into account the cost paid for the objective achieved? Or do you not weigh benefits against costs when you try to consider whether to go to war?

Tell me -- if you KNEW beforehand that conquering Iraq would take a half million US lives and another half million wounded, would you have still supported the invasion?
I doubt it.
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Old 09-06-2013, 03:19 PM   #372
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So those "problems" were bigger than Bush/Cheney/Rummy royally ****ing up how to handle post-war Iraq for years? That's comically absurd.

The key phrase in your post is SIX YEARS. That's how long they had to get it right. That's how long they didn't get it right. Longer than the American occupation of Germany/Japan. And when you screw things up as badly as they did, there's no reason to expect your party and your policies will be continued.
In the end, we overcame the post-war problems. We weren't able to overcome the politically motivated democrats or the President we elected in 2008. That's the big difference.
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Old 09-06-2013, 04:16 PM   #373
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I may catch heat for this but, one day Bush is going to look like a genius. Look at all of the uprisings that spread throughout the middle east after that invasion. It's not even over yet. It was the right thing to do at the time imo. Even if their weren't any WMDs.
These uprisings are good for us?
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