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Old 12-05-2017, 02:51 PM  
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Trump to name all of Jerusalem the capital of Israel.

Do we have anybody on this board that has been claiming for a decade that Israel and America actually never wanted to establish a two-state solution, and instead were paying it the silliest lip service possible while greater entrenching Israel as an apartheid state and precluding the existence of any kind of meaningful Palestine?

Anybody?

Let me see if I can think of one.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/05/w...rump-move.html

U.S. to Recognize Jerusalem as Israel’s Capital, Trump Says, Alarming Middle East Leaders
By MARK LANDLER and DAVID M. HALBFINGER
DEC. 5, 2017

President Trump told Israeli and Arab leaders on Tuesday that he plans to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel, a symbolically fraught move that would upend decades of American policy and upset efforts to broker peace between Israel and the Palestinians.

Mr. Trump is expected to announce his decision on Wednesday, two days after the expiration of a deadline for him to decide whether to keep the American Embassy in Tel Aviv.

Palestinian officials said Mr. Trump told the president of the Palestinian Authority, Mahmoud Abbas, that the United States would move the embassy to Jerusalem. Jordan said the president gave a similar message to King Abdullah II.

American officials, however, said such a move could not occur immediately for logistical reasons, given the lack of facilities to house the embassy staff. As a result, Mr. Trump is expected to sign a national security waiver that would authorize the administration to keep it in Tel Aviv for an additional six months.

Still, Mr. Trump’s decision to recognize Jerusalem as the capital — and to set in motion an embassy move — is his riskiest foray yet into the thicket of Middle East diplomacy. Arab and European leaders warn that it could derail any peace initiative and even ignite fresh violence in the region.

King Abdullah II strongly cautioned against the move, “stressing that Jerusalem is the key to achieving peace and stability in the region and the world,” according to a statement from the royal palace in Amman.

“King Abdullah stressed that the adoption of this resolution will have serious implications for security and stability in the Middle East, and will undermine the efforts of the American administration to resume the peace process and fuel the feelings of Muslims and Christians,” the statement said.

Few details of the conversation between Mr. Trump and Mr. Abbas were released, but a P.L.O. spokesman said that the call had given shape to the worst fears of Palestinians — that the United States would break with decades of practice and longstanding international consensus by recognizing Jerusalem as Israel’s capital.

The Palestinians hope to make East Jerusalem the capital of a Palestinian state, and the city is of great religious significance to Jews, Christians and Muslims.

“It’s very serious,” said the spokesman, Xavier Abu Eid. “Things look very bad.”

The Palestinian news agency, WAFA, quoted Mr. Abbas’s spokesman, Nabil Abu Rudeineh, as saying that Mr. Abbas will continue his contacts with world leaders to prevent such “unacceptable action.”

King Abdullah also spoke with Mr. Abbas, assuring him of Jordan’s support for the Palestinians “in preserving their historic rights in Jerusalem and the need to work together to confront the consequences of this decision,” it said.

Mr. Trump, officials said, assured Mr. Abbas that the administration would protect Palestinian interests in any peace negotiation with Israel. He also invited the Palestinian leader to visit him in Washington for further consultations.

In his phone calls with Arab leaders, Mr. Trump is making the case that settling the question of the American Embassy could actually hasten the peace process by removing a thorny political issue that recurs every six months.

But that is primarily a political problem for Mr. Trump, who promised during the 2016 campaign to move the embassy. His pledge was extremely popular with evangelicals and pro-Israel backers, including the casino magnate Sheldon Adelson. They expressed frustration when Mr. Trump signed the waiver in June, keeping the embassy in Tel Aviv.

Middle East experts said the administration’s argument that it could not move the embassy immediately made little sense, since all that is required is to place a sign on the existing American consulate, declaring it the embassy.

For Arab leaders, word that the United States would formally recognize Jerusalem as the capital had already caused great consternation. The symbolic statement of the embassy’s change of address, many officials warned, was actually less damaging to the peace process than changing United States policy on Jerusalem’s status.

For the United States to move the embassy would break with international consensus that the status of Jerusalem remains unsettled.

Though Israel houses its parliament, president, prime minister and most ministries in Jerusalem, and Israelis overwhelmingly want the world to acknowledge the Holy City as their seat of government, the international community recognizes de facto Israeli sovereignty only in West Jerusalem.

East Jerusalem was captured by Israeli forces during the Arab-Israeli war of 1967. And the permanent status of Jerusalem as a whole, East and West, was postponed under the Oslo Accords, although Israel extended Jerusalem’s municipal borders to encompass the predominantly Arab eastern neighborhoods.
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Old 12-06-2017, 05:22 PM   #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
Guys, come ON. You're on a politics forum! How can you spend 5 hours a day reading/discussing politics and not know the answers to silly questions like this?
Ok, I give up. How can we spend 5 hours a day reading/discussing politics and not know the answers to silly questions like this?

(Hint, my question was directly tied to the title of this thread )
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Old 12-06-2017, 05:32 PM   #122
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Ok, I give up. How can we spend 5 hours a day reading/discussing politics and not know the answers to silly questions like this?
By pretending to be more ignorant than you are.

I know you, OY. You're a sharp dude.
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Old 12-06-2017, 05:53 PM   #123
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
By pretending to be more ignorant than you are.

I know you, OY. You're a sharp dude.
This kinda contradicts itself.... unless I actually am a retard

But let me honestly say I don't understand where Trump got the authority to name all of Jerusalem the capital of Israel. Can he also name Coventry the capital of Great Britain or Florence the capital of Italy?

Feel free to ignore my question, but I'm gonna go on record as saying Trump doesn't have that authority. I very well could be wrong here though.
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Old 12-06-2017, 07:12 PM   #124
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http://www.tulsaworld.com/homepagela...cac0bf4c7.html
President Donald Trump’s controversial decision Wednesday to formally recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel drew both praise and criticism from Oklahomans.
Trump’s decision acts on a nearly unanimous measure passed in 1995 by Congress to recognize Jerusalem as the Israeli capital and to move the U.S. Embassy there.
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Old 12-06-2017, 07:22 PM   #125
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
I've never opposed Israel's right to exist. Let's cut out the hero worship of Israel.

Palestine doesn't want to recognize Israel's right to exist because they believe Israel is trying to eradicate them. That persecution radicalizes them and pretty much the last thing they want to do is compromise.
Bolded part is false. They are not willing to recognize Israel's right to exist because they hold out a false insane hope of wiping the Jewish people off of the planet.

Recognizing Israel's right to exist is not a "compromise". It is something same human beings do.

Israel would be crazy to agree to anything that did not include their right to exist being acknowledged....and this is a point they should not have to negotiate for. Hamas should do it, if for nothing more than the fact they should want to show the world they are not insane genocidal maniacs. Oh, wait......they actually are.
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Old 12-06-2017, 07:27 PM   #126
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This warms my heart, good for Trump. I'm sure the little terrorist Palestinians will pitch a temper tantrum and throw rocks and shit, but who gives a crap. If they start hitting soldiers with rocks, jack a few dozen of them up with M-16's and they will scatter.
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Old 12-06-2017, 07:47 PM   #127
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This was a promise made to Bibi—not to the American people. WTF? All the upset was about working with Russians?

It takes a burden off Bibi who gives up nothing, he never has, unlike the peace accord made with Sadat who gave up the idea of war and Menachem Begin who gave up land. Two sides have to give something up if they want a resolution.

Not only does this put other allies of ours in more danger like King Hussein of Jordan, who supports Israel's activities and has been effective for us, but also Dubai and Egypt.
It places a burden on the people of Israel and the IDF who are now targets. It also puts divisions among Sunnis and puts Turkey in an awkward position a country that had detente with Israel.

I read this was another lame idea of Jared Kushner ( a dumbass) and also of Miller who does not understand the dynamics of the Middle East.
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Old 12-06-2017, 07:57 PM   #128
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So I heard on the radio that like 6 months ago and several times in the past, both Dems and Repubs all voted for this to happen. If true, whats the excuse now to oppose it?
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So, if they were polling better than Trump and the primary goal was to prevent Hillary from becoming POTUS, perhaps it would have been a better strategic decision to nominate someone who actually had a chance of beating her and preventing that than nominating Donald Trump.
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Old 12-06-2017, 08:03 PM   #129
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So I heard on the radio that like 6 months ago and several times in the past, both Dems and Repubs all voted for this to happen. If true, whats the excuse now to oppose it?
Trump’s decision acts on a nearly unanimous measure passed in 1995 by Congress to recognize Jerusalem as the Israeli capital
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Old 12-06-2017, 08:05 PM   #130
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
Palestinians have lived on this land since time immemorial. What on earth are you talking about?


We both know that you really don't want to go down this alley.
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Old 12-06-2017, 08:05 PM   #131
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
Let's cut out the hero worship of Israel.
I missed this. Really? "Black for Palestine" says this?
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Old 12-06-2017, 08:07 PM   #132
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So I heard on the radio that like 6 months ago and several times in the past, both Dems and Repubs all voted for this to happen. If true, whats the excuse now to oppose it?
  1. Because Trump
  2. Because thought vote was purely ceremonial and for brownie points
  3. Because both A and B

You choose
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Old 12-06-2017, 08:10 PM   #133
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I don't care what either of the two parties did in 1995. I still think it's a bad idea; that it's not a president of another nation to decide this.
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Old 12-06-2017, 08:11 PM   #134
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http://www.weeklystandard.com/democr...rticle/2010726

A 1995 law declares that Jerusalem should “remain an undivided city” and “be recognized as the capital of the State of Israel,” but allows the president to issue waivers every six months delaying the move of the embassy for national security reasons. The Senate reaffirmed that law in June.
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Old 12-06-2017, 08:12 PM   #135
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
I don't care what either of the two parties did in 1995. I still think it's a bad idea; that it's not a president of another nation to decide this.
https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-...ution/176/text 90-0

Senate - 06/05/2017 Resolution agreed to in Senate without amendment and with a preamble by Yea-Nay Vote. 90 - 0


Commemorating the 50th anniversary of the reunification of Jerusalem.
  • Whereas June 2017 marks the 50th anniversary of the Six Day War and the reunification of the city of Jerusalem;
  • Whereas there has been a continuous Jewish presence in Jerusalem for 3 millennia;
  • Whereas Jerusalem is a holy city and the home for people of the Jewish, Muslim, and Christian faiths;
  • Whereas, for 3,000 years, Jerusalem has been Judaism's holiest city and the focal point of Jewish religious devotion;
  • Whereas, from 1948 to 1967, Jerusalem was a divided city, and Israeli citizens of all faiths as well as Jews of all nationalities were denied access to holy sites in eastern Jerusalem, including the Old City, in which the Western Wall is located;
  • Whereas, in 1967, Jerusalem was reunited by Israel during the conflict known as the Six Day War;
  • Whereas, since 1967, Jerusalem has been a united city, and persons of all religious faiths have access to holy sites within the city;
  • Whereas this year marks the 50th year that Jerusalem has been administered as a united city in which the rights of all faiths have been respected and protected;
  • Whereas the Jerusalem Embassy Act of 1995 (Public Law 104–45), which became law on November 8, 1995, states that Jerusalem should remain the undivided capital of Israel in which the rights of every ethnic and religious group are protected; and
  • Whereas it is the longstanding policy of the United States Government that a just resolution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict can only be achieved through direct, bilateral negotiations without preconditions for a sustainable two-state solution: Now, therefore, be it
Resolved, That the Senate—
(1) recognizes the 50th Anniversary of the reunification of Jerusalem and extends its friendship and hopes for peace to the residents of Jerusalem and the people of Israel;
(2) reaffirms its support for Israel’s commitment to religious freedom and administration of holy sites in Jerusalem;
(3) continues to support strengthening the mutually beneficial American-Israeli relationship;
(4) commends Egypt and Jordan, former combatant states of the Six Day War, who in subsequent years embraced a vision of peace and coexistence with Israel and have continued to uphold their respective peace agreements;
(5) reaffirms that it is the longstanding, bipartisan policy of the United States Government that the permanent status of Jerusalem remains a matter to be decided between the parties through final status negotiations towards a two-state solution; and
(6) reaffirms the Jerusalem Embassy Act of 1995 (Public Law 104–45) as United States law, and calls upon the President and all United States officials to abide by its provisions.
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