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Old 12-05-2017, 02:51 PM  
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Trump to name all of Jerusalem the capital of Israel.

Do we have anybody on this board that has been claiming for a decade that Israel and America actually never wanted to establish a two-state solution, and instead were paying it the silliest lip service possible while greater entrenching Israel as an apartheid state and precluding the existence of any kind of meaningful Palestine?

Anybody?

Let me see if I can think of one.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/05/w...rump-move.html

U.S. to Recognize Jerusalem as Israel’s Capital, Trump Says, Alarming Middle East Leaders
By MARK LANDLER and DAVID M. HALBFINGER
DEC. 5, 2017

President Trump told Israeli and Arab leaders on Tuesday that he plans to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel, a symbolically fraught move that would upend decades of American policy and upset efforts to broker peace between Israel and the Palestinians.

Mr. Trump is expected to announce his decision on Wednesday, two days after the expiration of a deadline for him to decide whether to keep the American Embassy in Tel Aviv.

Palestinian officials said Mr. Trump told the president of the Palestinian Authority, Mahmoud Abbas, that the United States would move the embassy to Jerusalem. Jordan said the president gave a similar message to King Abdullah II.

American officials, however, said such a move could not occur immediately for logistical reasons, given the lack of facilities to house the embassy staff. As a result, Mr. Trump is expected to sign a national security waiver that would authorize the administration to keep it in Tel Aviv for an additional six months.

Still, Mr. Trump’s decision to recognize Jerusalem as the capital — and to set in motion an embassy move — is his riskiest foray yet into the thicket of Middle East diplomacy. Arab and European leaders warn that it could derail any peace initiative and even ignite fresh violence in the region.

King Abdullah II strongly cautioned against the move, “stressing that Jerusalem is the key to achieving peace and stability in the region and the world,” according to a statement from the royal palace in Amman.

“King Abdullah stressed that the adoption of this resolution will have serious implications for security and stability in the Middle East, and will undermine the efforts of the American administration to resume the peace process and fuel the feelings of Muslims and Christians,” the statement said.

Few details of the conversation between Mr. Trump and Mr. Abbas were released, but a P.L.O. spokesman said that the call had given shape to the worst fears of Palestinians — that the United States would break with decades of practice and longstanding international consensus by recognizing Jerusalem as Israel’s capital.

The Palestinians hope to make East Jerusalem the capital of a Palestinian state, and the city is of great religious significance to Jews, Christians and Muslims.

“It’s very serious,” said the spokesman, Xavier Abu Eid. “Things look very bad.”

The Palestinian news agency, WAFA, quoted Mr. Abbas’s spokesman, Nabil Abu Rudeineh, as saying that Mr. Abbas will continue his contacts with world leaders to prevent such “unacceptable action.”

King Abdullah also spoke with Mr. Abbas, assuring him of Jordan’s support for the Palestinians “in preserving their historic rights in Jerusalem and the need to work together to confront the consequences of this decision,” it said.

Mr. Trump, officials said, assured Mr. Abbas that the administration would protect Palestinian interests in any peace negotiation with Israel. He also invited the Palestinian leader to visit him in Washington for further consultations.

In his phone calls with Arab leaders, Mr. Trump is making the case that settling the question of the American Embassy could actually hasten the peace process by removing a thorny political issue that recurs every six months.

But that is primarily a political problem for Mr. Trump, who promised during the 2016 campaign to move the embassy. His pledge was extremely popular with evangelicals and pro-Israel backers, including the casino magnate Sheldon Adelson. They expressed frustration when Mr. Trump signed the waiver in June, keeping the embassy in Tel Aviv.

Middle East experts said the administration’s argument that it could not move the embassy immediately made little sense, since all that is required is to place a sign on the existing American consulate, declaring it the embassy.

For Arab leaders, word that the United States would formally recognize Jerusalem as the capital had already caused great consternation. The symbolic statement of the embassy’s change of address, many officials warned, was actually less damaging to the peace process than changing United States policy on Jerusalem’s status.

For the United States to move the embassy would break with international consensus that the status of Jerusalem remains unsettled.

Though Israel houses its parliament, president, prime minister and most ministries in Jerusalem, and Israelis overwhelmingly want the world to acknowledge the Holy City as their seat of government, the international community recognizes de facto Israeli sovereignty only in West Jerusalem.

East Jerusalem was captured by Israeli forces during the Arab-Israeli war of 1967. And the permanent status of Jerusalem as a whole, East and West, was postponed under the Oslo Accords, although Israel extended Jerusalem’s municipal borders to encompass the predominantly Arab eastern neighborhoods.
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Old 12-06-2017, 08:09 AM   #61
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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Originally Posted by Over Yonder View Post
Is something going on with Iran? I mean other than the usual. This is the second time I have seen posters mention a new war in the middle east.
I think we're being distracted by all the other more outrageous news.

I think a war with Iran is coming. I said earlier that clean-out in SA wasn't so much about corruption but about removing the guys opposed to that war. All our conspiring, meddling born of arrogance and hubris over there is only pushing two other superpowers into military pacts with Iran and something about a gold pact too. Just don't remember the details but see the petro dollar being challenged. So this is what it's coming to. We have had a crisis of leadership ever since Reagan left office.

Why are we helping the Saudis destroy Yemen. Even that war is chock full of disinformation.
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Old 12-06-2017, 12:14 PM   #62
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This is an action that's long past due, and the Pope can go **** himself.
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Old 12-06-2017, 12:28 PM   #63
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Jim Shit-o of CNN is saying , "what is the stretegy? We want to know the strategy"

It's called negotiations ASSHOLE and you don't negotiate in public or against yourself!
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Old 12-06-2017, 12:33 PM   #64
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garcia Bronco View Post
Why should the Israelis accept a people that have vowed to destroy them?
Hamas' militant wing vowed to destroy Israelis. Not Palestinians. Although the Palestinian population has radicalized over the past two decades as Israel has posed what they consider an existential threat to their people.

I feel like we've had this conversation a hundred times over the past decade, guys, and you folks keep trotting out the same stuff over and over again.
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Old 12-06-2017, 12:35 PM   #65
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Over Yonder View Post
On all matters that involve Israel and Palestine, this is my official position.

.... And as others have alluded to, how the heck is Trump gonna name all of Jerusalem the capital of Israel? Has he taken another job or been given another position I am not aware of? Outside of brute force, where is he gonna get the authority?
Guys, come ON. You're on a politics forum! How can you spend 5 hours a day reading/discussing politics and not know the answers to silly questions like this?
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Old 12-06-2017, 12:35 PM   #66
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scho63 View Post
Jim Shit-o of CNN is saying , "what is the stretegy? We want to know the strategy"

It's called negotiations ASSHOLE and you don't negotiate in public or against yourself!
Negotiations that begin with one party kicking the other in the face are rarely successful.
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Old 12-06-2017, 01:56 PM   #67
Aries Walker Aries Walker is offline
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All of our different opinions on different ethnicities aside, from a strategic point of view, isn't this likely to supremely piss off the fifteen or so Arabic countries that surround tiny Israel? Isn't it going to make it more likely than one or more of them get fed up with all of this and just beat the living shit out of them, shipping all of its residents back to whatever country their great-grandparents lived in before 1945 and, by the way, having their more enthusiastic outliers walk a few more explosive vests into some of our roadside Sbarros for helping them out?

Doesn't that alone make this a phenomenally bad idea, for no real strategic purpose?
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Old 12-06-2017, 02:01 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by Over Yonder View Post
Is something going on with Iran? I mean other than the usual. This is the second time I have seen posters mention a new war in the middle east.
Saudi Arabia.
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Old 12-06-2017, 02:04 PM   #69
Just Passin' By Just Passin' By is offline
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Originally Posted by Aries Walker View Post
All of our different opinions on different ethnicities aside, from a strategic point of view, isn't this likely to supremely piss off the fifteen or so Arabic countries that surround tiny Israel? Isn't it going to make it more likely than one or more of them get fed up with all of this and just beat the living shit out of them, shipping all of its residents back to whatever country their great-grandparents lived in before 1945 and, by the way, having their more enthusiastic outliers walk a few more explosive vests into some of our roadside Sbarros for helping them out?

Doesn't that alone make this a phenomenally bad idea, for no real strategic purpose?
No
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Old 12-06-2017, 02:11 PM   #70
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Trump fulfilling yet another campaign promise.
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Old 12-06-2017, 02:32 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
Negotiations that begin with one party kicking the other in the face are rarely successful.
"Palestinians have rejected every offer of statehood, and have not been willing to engage in real talks with Israel since the Bush administration. They’re already unwilling to negotiate, and were especially unwilling during the Obama years, when the president was openly acting as their advocate. If they are so incensed that the United States is finally acknowledging the plain fact that Jerusalem is the capital of Israel that they will never talk again, it tells us that a negotiated agreement was never possible in the first place."

Taken from Noah Pollak article

http://freebeacon.com/blog/days-of-m...out-jerusalem/
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Old 12-06-2017, 02:35 PM   #72
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**** each and every Palestinian that is currently breathing.
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Old 12-06-2017, 02:38 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by Stinger View Post
"Palestinians have rejected every offer of statehood, and have not been willing to engage in real talks with Israel since the Bush administration. They’re already unwilling to negotiate, and were especially unwilling during the Obama years, when the president was openly acting as their advocate. If they are so incensed that the United States is finally acknowledging the plain fact that Jerusalem is the capital of Israel that they will never talk again, it tells us that a negotiated agreement was never possible in the first place."

Taken from Noah Pollak article

http://freebeacon.com/blog/days-of-m...out-jerusalem/
What does that even mean? They engaged in """"""real talks"""""" during the entire Obama administration.

The two-state solution negotiations collapsed as Israel kept building settlements on Palestinian lands.

Tell me -- if you're negotiating in good faith with Palestinians on a two-state solution, why would you build settlements on land that will indisputably be theirs?
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Old 12-06-2017, 02:50 PM   #74
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Good. **** Palestine.

Israel is the last bastion of freedom in that shithole.
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Old 12-06-2017, 02:53 PM   #75
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Good. **** Palestine.

Israel is the last bastion of freedom in that shithole.
Bastion of freedom? Have you seen Gaza?
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