Other Sports Sports-Related Conspiracy Theories - Page 8

'Hamas' Jenkins · 09-25-2014, 04:54 PM

Some of the recent posts about various things being rigged has gotten me thinking. I love a good conspiracy theory, and I'd like to know how much you all do, too. I think this thread should be a place to hash those out. I'll start:

Joe Paterno decided to kill himself rather than face the public for his proximity to Sandusky and the kiddie porn dungeon that became the Penn St facilities.

KC_Connection · 09-26-2014, 08:46 PM

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Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Save that it's bad for business for offense to drop off.

But has it been bad for business, though? MLB is doing more than fine with offense at the lowest level it's been in 20 years.

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People don't actually care about PEDs. If they did, the NFL wouldn't exist.

I agree for the most part, but it had reached a bit of a crisis point around the time we're talking about (and MLB certainly can't be compared with the NFL's place in American sports culture). Selig even took it seriously enough to initiate the Mitchell Report and blackball Bonds out of the sport.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 09-26-2014, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KC_Connection

But has it been bad for business, though? MLB is doing more than fine with offense at the lowest level it's been in 20 years.

I agree for the most part, but it had reached a bit of a crisis point around the time we're talking about (and MLB certainly can't be compared with the NFL's place in American sports culture). Selig even took it seriously enough to initiate the Mitchell Report and blackball Bonds out of the sport.

TV ratings suggest that it has hurt.

Baseball's cartoonish offenses did a better job of pulling in people who weren't actually baseball fans. That is what the NFL does so well. It markets itself perfectly to people who don't actually like football but flashing lights and big numbers.

KC_Connection · 09-26-2014, 08:54 PM

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Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

I'm sorry, but this just doesn't square with physics. Steroids make you stronger, which translates into more speed.

What doesn't square with physics? I'm not denying steroids help. I'm suggesting there are other factors beyond steroids that help explain the cycles of offense throughout baseball history (and I think it's pretty obvious that there are).

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Given your country of residence you should know all about the steroid-speed connection.

Ben did have to get on the same equal ground as Carl, after all.

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How do you explain Brady Anderson, Greg Vaughn, and numerous other players who hit 50 out of nowhere?

Juiced baseballs, steroids, smaller ballparks, expansion, etc. If the direct source of Brady Anderson's 50 HR season was steroid use, I've always wondered why he stopped the following year and never repeated it.

KC_Connection · 09-26-2014, 08:57 PM

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Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

TV ratings suggest that it has hurt.

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/eye-on-...atings-monster

The NFL has obviously replaced MLB as the #1 sport in America, but MLB is doing fine in that regard.

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Baseball's cartoonish offenses did a better job of pulling in people who weren't actually baseball fans. That is what the NFL does so well. It markets itself perfectly to people who don't actually like football but flashing lights and big numbers.

If baseball is ever hurting for money, I have no doubt that we'll see offensive levels climb right back up again...one way or another.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 09-26-2014, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KC_Connection

What doesn't square with physics? I'm not denying steroids help. I'm suggesting there are other factors beyond steroids that help explain the cycles of offense throughout baseball history (and I think it's pretty obvious that there are).

Ben did have to get on the same equal ground as Carl, after all.

Juiced baseballs, steroids, smaller ballparks, expansion, etc. If the direct source of Brady Anderson's 50 HR season was steroid use, I've always wondered why he stopped the following year and never repeated it.

We've mentioned the contributing factors already. Park size obviously made an impact, as did pitching dilution. But I think if you consider the evolution of offense in the 90s, it paints a compelling case for steroids as the largest single factor.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 09-26-2014, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KC_Connection

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/eye-on-...atings-monster

The NFL has obviously replaced MLB as the #1 sport in America, but MLB is doing fine in that regard.

If baseball is ever hurting for money, I have no doubt that we'll see offensive levels climb right back up again...one way or another.

The World Series is a good indicator of general support. MLB will always have strong local support because it's the only sport in town for most of the summer.

KC_Connection · 09-26-2014, 09:03 PM

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Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

We've mentioned the contributing factors already. Park size obviously made an impact, as did pitching dilution. But I think if you consider the evolution of offense in the 90s, it paints a compelling case for steroids as the largest single factor.

Am I supposed to believe steroid use only became common in the mid-90s, then? That guys were not doing it in the late 80s/early 90s (the last time offense in baseball looked like this)?

I don't buy it.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 09-26-2014, 09:05 PM

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Originally Posted by KC_Connection

Am I supposed to believe steroid use only became common in the mid-90s, then? That guys were not doing it in the late 80s/early 90s (the last time offense in baseball looked like this)?

I don't buy it.

Do you remember the size of baseball players in the 90s compared to the 80s? Remember, extant isn't common.

KC_Connection · 09-26-2014, 09:06 PM

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Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

The World Series is a good indicator of general support. MLB will always have strong local support because it's the only sport in town for most of the summer.

There's no doubt baseball doesn't have the same place in the national sports scene that it used to (especially in October during football season), but it's a bit of a myth to suggest that MLB is hurting at all there (see the influx of cash due to the massive TV contracts most of these clubs are signing).

'Hamas' Jenkins · 09-26-2014, 09:09 PM

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Originally Posted by KC_Connection

There's no doubt baseball doesn't have the same place in the national sports scene that it used to (especially in October during football season), but it's a bit of a myth to suggest that MLB is hurting at all there (see the influx of cash due to the massive TV contracts most of these clubs are signing).

That influx of cash has to do with the live sports bubble that every sport is currently enjoying due to the value of not time-shifting and missing ads.

Again, look at local TV ratings for NBA teams. You'll find the same pattern. There isn't broad national support for a random baseball game; there is specific regional support for an area's team.

That conveys an interest in the team rather than the sport.

Baseball isn't dying/hurting. I never claimed it was. But it certainly believed it was at one point, and the crazy offensive numbers helped bring it some needed attention and (initially) good press.

KC_Connection · 09-26-2014, 09:10 PM

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Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Do you remember the size of baseball players in the 90s compared to the 80s?

Posting a picture of the difference between the 25 year old and 35 year old Mark McGwire doesn't exactly prove that baseball players weren't using a ton of steroids in the 80s/90s. If they weren't, baseball was somehow way behind the rest of the world of sports (and I don't believe that at all).

KC_Connection · 09-26-2014, 09:12 PM

Canseco, FWIW, said it was already common by the time we're talking about.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 09-26-2014, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KC_Connection

Posting a picture of the difference between the 25 year old and 35 year old Mark McGwire doesn't exactly prove that baseball players weren't using a ton of steroids in the 80s/90s. If they weren't, baseball was somehow way behind the rest of the world of sports (and I don't believe that at all).

I posted one picture for the sake of brevity. Would you like pictures of Sosa, Bonds, Ivan Rodgriguez, or dozens and dozens of other players?

KC_Connection · 09-26-2014, 09:14 PM

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Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Baseball isn't dying/hurting. I never claimed it was. But it certainly believed it was at one point, and the crazy offensive numbers helped bring it some needed attention and (initially) good press.

And as soon as all that offense shifted into bad press and attention (with fans/media starting to doubt the credibility of the sport and its numbers), offense went right back down again seemingly in response.

KC_Connection · 09-26-2014, 09:15 PM

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Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

I posted one picture for the sake of brevity. Would you like pictures of Sosa, Bonds, Ivan Rodgriguez, or dozens and dozens of other players?

You can post all the pictures you want, it isn't going to prove that all major league baseball players started using steroids exactly in 1994.

09-25-2014, 04:54 PM
'Hamas' Jenkins Now you've pissed me off! Join Date: Jan 2006 Casino cash: $8009572	Sports-Related Conspiracy Theories Some of the recent posts about various things being rigged has gotten me thinking. I love a good conspiracy theory, and I'd like to know how much you all do, too. I think this thread should be a place to hash those out. I'll start: Joe Paterno decided to kill himself rather than face the public for his proximity to Sandusky and the kiddie porn dungeon that became the Penn St facilities.
Posts: 74,825

09-26-2014, 09:12 PM	#117
KC_Connection Perpetual Mediocrity Join Date: Jan 2006 Casino cash: $5402783	Canseco, FWIW, said it was already common by the time we're talking about.
Posts: 48,778