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Old 05-26-2018, 11:41 PM  
Lex Luthor Lex Luthor is offline
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The Trump Administration and Human Trafficking

The Trump administration has deliberately set a policy to separate parents from their children at the borders in order to discourage families from trying to enter the USA. They've done a great job of terrorizing these families, but they haven't done as good a job of keeping track of the children they take away from their parents. They've lost track of nearly 1,500 children after forcibly removing those children from their parents.

Trump does a lot of shameful things. This may be the worst of all.

Taco John started multiple threads about "Pizzagate" on this site, and he repeated over and over a bogus claim that Hillary Clinton was involved in child sex trafficking.

Now we see who the REAL traffickers are. It's the Trump administration.

Quote:
1,475 Disappeared Children
From The American Conservative

The Arizona Republic writer E.J. Montini has a story that is so horrible that it can’t be true … can it? Yes, it’s true.

The Trump administration recently announced a new, get-tough policy that will separate parents from their children if the family is caught crossing the border illegally.

It was a big news story. So big it overshadowed the fact that the federal government has lost – yes, lost – 1,475 migrant children in its custody.
Homeland Security Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen told Congress that within 48 hours of being taken into custody the children are transferred to the Department of Health and Human Services, which finds places for them to stay.

The Office of Refugee Resettlement reported at the end of 2017 that of the 7,000-plus children placed with sponsored individuals, the agency did not know where 1,475 of them were.

Last month, PBS’s Frontline reported that some of these children were released by the feds into the hands of human traffickers.

In 2014, at least 10 trafficking victims, including eight minors, were discovered during a raid by federal and local law enforcement in Portman’s home state of Ohio. As FRONTLINE examined in the recent documentary Trafficked in America, HHS had released several minors to the traffickers. The committee said the case was due to policies and procedures that were “inadequate to protect the children in the agency’s care.”

After unaccompanied minors arrive in the United States, often to reunite with family members or to flee violence or poverty in their home countries, they are typically transferred from border patrol or customs officers to the custody of HHS, which often reunites the minors with a relative or another sponsor. The department is supposed to place check-in phone calls 30 days after a minor’s placement, but during the hearing, Wagner acknowledged gaps in that system.

In an interview with FRONTLINE for Trafficked in America, Portman said that HHS cannot ignore its responsibility for unaccompanied minors.

“We’ve got these kids,” he said. “They’re here. They’re living on our soil. And for us to just, you know, assume someone else is going to take care of them and throw them to the wolves, which is what HHS was doing, is flat-out wrong. I don’t care what you think about immigration policy, it’s wrong.”

Nearly 1,500 kids, disappeared. I agree with Sen. Portman: no matter what you think of US immigration policy, this is horrifying.

Why is this not a massive scandal? We’re talking children here. I suppose that’s one way to guarantee that people don’t try to cross the border illegally with their children: tell them that the US government will take their kids away, and oops, might even lose them, or even hand them off to human traffickers.

We can’t stand for this, America.
http://www.theamericanconservative.c...ared-children/
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Old 05-27-2018, 08:09 AM   #16
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Old 05-27-2018, 08:26 AM   #17
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This article, and the others I've found on this subject, are pretty poorly written.

I can't tell when these 1475 children were placed; was it during 2017, during the Obama administration, both?.

I can't tell why this particular group of 7000+ children were checked on; was it random or was this group distinguishable from the other tens of thousands of children that have been placed (e.g. kids who weren't placed with relatives who would be more likely to move on)?

I can't tell what kind of kids these 1475 are; are they the oldest among the 7000+ making them the most likely of that group to venture off on their own as they mature?

I can't tell how long this program has been going on, what the rationale for the program is, or how it's been changed over the years.

Is it a sloppy article or a misleading hit piece? Who knows? Lex doesn't seem to care.
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Old 05-27-2018, 08:50 AM   #18
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So the research timetable ended in 2017... when did it start?

Seems this is a problem that goes far beyond the fetishised Trump obsession.

I mean, use it to bash trump if that's what you care about. If you care about the kids, then maybe we should address the issue a little deeper.

Or you can use it as a political football to grandstand presidential disapproval. It's a free country.
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Old 05-27-2018, 09:06 AM   #19
Lex Luthor Lex Luthor is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MagicHef View Post
2014? Trump's deviancy isn't even constrained by time!
If you want to have an honest discussion about the issue, you could start by not taking a single sentence out of context and deliberately misinterpreting it.

1,475 children who were forcibly removed from their parents by the government in 2017 cannot be located. That's a fact.

Children who are separated from their parents sometimes wind up in the hands of traffickers. That's also a fact.

The article couldn't provide statistics about how many of the 1.475 children who are missing right now are in the hands of traffickers, because, you know, they are missing. So the article cited some actual statistics from 2014 to demonstrate that some percentage of these missing children inevitably wind up in the hands of traffickers.
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Old 05-27-2018, 09:09 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lex Luthor View Post
1,475 children who were forcibly removed from their parents by the government in 2017 cannot be located. That's a fact.
Is it? What do you base that on?
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Old 05-27-2018, 09:12 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MagicHef View Post
What's interesting is that the 1,475 children whose location they were unable to determine was from the results of a phone call campaign. This is apparently new under Trump, there was no such follow-up under Obama or any previous administrations. If we follow the same rules, we could say that 100% of the unaccompanied minors were lost under Obama.
What's new under Trump is the policy of removing children from parents who apply for legal asylum for their families.

Quote:
CHILDREN WILL BE SEPARATED FROM PARENTS AT BORDER IF CROSSING ILLEGALLY, JEFF SESSIONS SAYS IN IMMIGRATION CRACKDOWN

President Donald Trump's Department of Justice announced plans Monday to begin separating parents and children at the border, a change from a long-time immigration policy which, generally, allowed them to stay together while their cases are processed.

"If you are smuggling a child, then we will prosecute you and that child will be separated from you as required by law," Attorney General Jeff Sessions said in a Monday address at the Association of State Criminal Investigative Agencies' 2018 spring conference. "If you don’t like that, then don’t smuggle children over our border."

That means parents will likely face prosecution while their children remain in detention at a "separate refugee facility," according to the Los Angeles Times.

As Jennifer Quigley, an advocacy strategist at Human Rights First, explained to Newsweek last week, mothers with children seeking asylum previously would have been released from Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) detention after their "credible fear" interviews. Flores v. Reno, a 1985 class action lawsuit, dictated that children and minors must be kept in the "least restrictive setting" available, which typically meant they would be released from custody along with their mother. Together, they would wait for months, or sometimes years, for their day in court to plead their case for asylum before an immigration judge, due to an extensive asylum backlog.



http://www.newsweek.com/jeff-session...-border-912972
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Last edited by Lex Luthor; 05-27-2018 at 09:32 AM.. Reason: Added link
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Old 05-27-2018, 09:14 AM   #22
Lex Luthor Lex Luthor is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by digger View Post
New record Tap-Out in 5 posts.
Nobody tapped out. I went to bed.

I'll be debunking your side's bullshit for a little while this morning. Then I have other plans for the rest of the day.

That won't be tapping out either.
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Old 05-27-2018, 09:17 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lex Luthor View Post
Nobody tapped out. I went to bed.

I'll be debunking your side's bullshit for a little while this morning. Then I have other plans for the rest of the day.

That won't be tapping out either.
You wont be doing shit other than lacing up the clown shoes patteeu fitted you with
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Old 05-27-2018, 09:19 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lex Luthor View Post
What's new under Trump is the policy of removing children from parents who apply for legal asylum for their families.




Is it a new law or is it a change to start enforcing a law that already existed?
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Old 05-27-2018, 09:23 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
Is it? What do you base that on?
This was announced by Steven Wagner, the Acting Assistant Secretary of the Administration for Children and Families. This is an agency in the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services.

This has been reported by multiple sources. Here is one example:

Quote:
The Office of Refugee Resettlement reported at the end of 2017 that of the 7,000-plus children placed with sponsored individuals, the agency did not know where 1,475 of them were.

Republican Sen. Rob Portman said, “It’s just a system that has so many gaps, so many opportunities for these children to fall between the cracks, that we just don’t know what’s going on — how much trafficking or abuse or simply immigration law violations are occurring.”
https://www.azcentral.com/story/opin...son/631627002/

If you want to read the actual document released by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, you can see it here.

Edit: Upon re-reading the article I see that the 1.475 was the total as of the end of 2017, not the total for the 2017 calendar year. That's not a material difference, but I thought I'd point it out before anyone attempts to use that subtle distinction to claim that this new policy is anything other than a cruel and inhumane thing to do.
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Last edited by Lex Luthor; 05-27-2018 at 09:28 AM.. Reason: See last sentences
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Old 05-27-2018, 09:24 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
Is it a new law or is it a change to start enforcing a law that already existed?
It's not a new law. It's not an old law that they've just started enforcing. It's not a law at all.

It's a new policy announced by Jeff Sessions. See post #21 in this thread.
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Old 05-27-2018, 09:34 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lex Luthor View Post
This was announced by Steven Wagner, the Acting Assistant Secretary of the Administration for Children and Families. This is an agency in the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services.

This has been reported by multiple sources. Here is one example:



https://www.azcentral.com/story/opin...son/631627002/

If you want to read the actual document released by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, you can see it here.

Edit: Upon re-reading the article I see that the 1.475 was the total as of the end of 2017, not the total for the 2017 calendar year. That's not a material difference, but I thought I'd point it out before anyone attempts to use that subtle distinction to claim that this new policy is anything other than a cruel and inhumane thing to do.
So it's actually not a fact.

That IS a material difference. Especially since your thesis is that this is all new under Trump. Your confusion is a symptom of how bad the reporting on this seems to be. I think you need to rethink this entire thread and your entire understanding of this topic.
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Old 05-27-2018, 09:36 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lex Luthor View Post
It's not a new law. It's a new policy announced by Jeff Sessions. See post #21 in this thread.
Right. You blame Trump because his administration is enforcing a law that preexists it instead of ignoring it like the previous administration did. Your thread is an abortion. Tapping out would be the best move, to be honest.
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Old 05-27-2018, 09:58 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
So it's actually not a fact.

That IS a material difference. Especially since your thesis is that this is all new under Trump. Your confusion is a symptom of how bad the reporting on this seems to be. I think you need to rethink this entire thread and your entire understanding of this topic.
Of course it's a fact. Your denial of a fact doesn't make the fact go away.

I hate to break this to you Pat, but you are the one who is confused. You've become so much a part of Trump's base that you feel compelled to defend and support all of his policies, even terrible policies like this one.

If Trump were proud of this policy, he wouldn't now be trying to blame it on the Democrats with misleading Tweets like this one:





Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
Right. You blame Trump because his administration is enforcing a law that preexists it instead of ignoring it like the previous administration did. Your thread is an abortion. Tapping out would be the best move, to be honest.
Trump is not enforcing a pre-existing law. There is no law that says children must be separated from their parents. This is an attempt to intimidate families so that they'll be afraid to show up at the border and apply for legal asylum. Jeff Sessions said as much when he announced the policy. See post #21.
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Old 05-27-2018, 10:38 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lex Luthor View Post
Of course it's a fact. Your denial of a fact doesn't make the fact go away.

I hate to break this to you Pat, but you are the one who is confused.
You're right. I misread what you typed so my response is inappropriate in that it's based on a false inference on my part.

I read the .pdf you posted. It's not completely clear that all of the kids they tried to reach were placed during FY17, but I'll tap out on that point.

I'm still not convinced of your broader point though. We don't know how this rate compares to previous years. We don't know how much of a concern we should have over the unable to be located group because I don't think we know anything about the types of kids these were (e.g. infants versus near-adults) or the characteristics that define this category (e.g. disappeared from the face of the earth as if they never existed versus can't reach them on the phone after three attempts).

What we do know, from your .pdf, is that the Trump administration has taken several steps to make their placement program safer for the children. Sponsors are more thoroughly vetted and more followup is being done.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lex Luthor View Post
Trump is not enforcing a pre-existing law. There is no law that says children must be separated from their parents. This is an attempt to intimidate families so that they'll be afraid to show up at the border and apply for legal asylum. Jeff Sessions said as much when he announced the policy. See post #21.
In the article you quoted in post 21, it says Jeff Sessions seemed to say that they're doing this as required by law:

Quote:
If you are smuggling a child, then we will prosecute you and that child will be separated from you as required by law
.
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