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Old 02-08-2018, 09:00 AM  
Amnorix Amnorix is offline
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Fiscal Restraint

I wish someone in Congress had some....


I just want to be clear to every Republican/right-winger that has argued that Democrats/liberals are responsible for our ridiculous deficit and national debt -- the tax cut bill and the budget increase that just got through a Congress that Republicans control, with a Republican POTUS signing into law (presumably), clearly establishes that it's all just talk.

NEITHER PARTY gives a damn about the deficit or debt, and neither party can claim any moral high ground on the topic.

Which sucks for all Americans IMHO.

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Old 02-08-2018, 06:33 PM   #121
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I totally forgot about that--wasn't it supposed to be some Taco conspiracy?
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Old 02-08-2018, 10:36 PM   #122
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His name is Rand Paul.
Like I was saying...
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Old 02-08-2018, 11:00 PM   #123
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He sure did! He let his congress do it's job while he was playing stinky finger with certain people, no names mentioned

But seriously, that's how it's supposed to work. Also, back then, NAFTA had not gutted the American economy base yet... and we were not addicted to government handouts yet..... it was a different world
I think he was playing stinky cigar too.

Bet that was a fishy smoke afterwards.
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Old 02-09-2018, 08:59 AM   #124
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So, crazy thought. How about first getting together and hashing out actual spending needs. Then get together and figure out what that means you need for taxes. If you need too much, go back and cut until you get down to that number. You know, the thing most families do sitting around the kitchen table. Maybe that means you can't get that extra tank or that you don't get to expand Medicaid. At some point though, you have to address the deficit. Generally, you'd want to fix it when your economy is doing well because it can handle it better, kind of how people increase their investing, etc. when they are doing well. Then if the economy starts to suffer and you need to borrow to get out of it, you can afford to do it. You know, how people create an emergency fund just in case it's needed.

The problem is, when you have to worry about an election every two years, you don't want to make a decision that will make you unpopular. That's why we don't have any adults making decisions. It's easier to not be the one in power making the decisions. You can just sit back and complain about how they are all doing it wrong. Then when you actually get the power, 'oh, well we'll do that later." Then you lose power and say, "We'd make a change but the other guys are obstructing!" Every marriage has different priorities. My wife wants different things than I want but we compromise and do what's best for the family. Our eyes first look to the needs of the future and making sure we are covered there and then we look to the desires we have now. When you don't know how to compromise, you just end up in a bad marriage and that's what this country is in. We just decided to pull out the credit card so we could both get what we want instead of making the hard decision to not spend that extra money and get back on track first. Welcome to modern day America.
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Old 02-09-2018, 01:02 PM   #125
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
"What" makes all the difference in the world.

And why should Republicans be required to be the tax collector for the democrat welfare state? Why should democrat spending determine the level of taxation we should have instead of Republican tax levels setting the level of spending available?

My point in this thread is singular -- neither party cares NEARLY as much about deficits and the debt as they do about their own pet projects/programs. Dems and Republicans together are massively fiscally irresponsible.

But let's face it, they actually DO NOT care about the deficit/debt, because their constituents don't. And so we'll keep chugging along as stupidly as ever.
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Old 02-09-2018, 01:04 PM   #126
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Amnorix 01:37 PM 05-13-2010

Love how they are "Obamadeficits" now. Like we never had any before. Like he didn't inherit an economic mess and the standard economic thinking is to go (deeper, in our case) into the red to fix the mess.

What is your point? You can go back to the beginning on here. I have always been a deficit hawk. The only time that should be suspended is when the country is in economic turmoil, which it pretty clearly ****ing was.

Don't pretend for a second I never cared about deficits before and now suddenly do, because that's bullshit.
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Old 02-09-2018, 01:12 PM   #127
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
Amno,

You have to give President Obama and his administration credit where its due.

He inherited a trillion dollar deficit and other than the initial stimulus package (which I assume you agree we needed), he was able to slice it down during an economic recovery from a near-depression at record rates.

Before him, President Clinton left office with a surplus.

Now, I'm not saying either President is spotless, but in my lifetime, it's been Democratic Presidents that have cut and erased the deficit, and Republicans who ballooned the deficit.

Sure, you could look at it that way. You could also note that Clinton engaged in extensive welfare reform largely under pressure from a Republican controlled Congress, and that same Republican controlled Congress, with a Democratic President -- resulted in years upon years of gridlock which resulted in Clinton having effectively no ability to significantly increase government spending. Note also that the "dot.com" boom dramatically increased tax revenues, which largely drove the near-elimination of the deficit in his last year or two. He didn't care the dot.com boom, so...

Of course, ****head Bush then cut taxes to recreate/worsen the deficit.


Obama, meanwhile, gets a ridiculously disproportionate amount of blame for the deficit created during his Presidency. The first year of his administration, the budget was one he had inherited, and was a trillion dollar deficit. For the rest, he was dealing with the worst economic crisis in 80 years. I don't lay any of that -- or the resulting deficit -- at his doorstep.

In fact, I view him as pretty much being a net zero. He didn't do much to help or hurt. That's because few/none of the policies he implemented -- outside of those relating to the crisis -- had a dramatic effect either way on the deficit on a per year basis. His (and Democrats') overly zealous regulatory efforts crimped the American economy, which is difficult to quantify, but that surely drove down tax revenues to some extent.

Obamacare would have had more of an impact over time, of course, but by the end of his term it's impact wasn't significant.
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Old 02-09-2018, 02:56 PM   #128
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Originally Posted by Amnorix View Post
Sure, you could look at it that way. You could also note that Clinton engaged in extensive welfare reform largely under pressure from a Republican controlled Congress, and that same Republican controlled Congress, with a Democratic President -- resulted in years upon years of gridlock which resulted in Clinton having effectively no ability to significantly increase government spending. Note also that the "dot.com" boom dramatically increased tax revenues, which largely drove the near-elimination of the deficit in his last year or two. He didn't care the dot.com boom, so...

Of course, ****head Bush then cut taxes to recreate/worsen the deficit.


Obama, meanwhile, gets a ridiculously disproportionate amount of blame for the deficit created during his Presidency. The first year of his administration, the budget was one he had inherited, and was a trillion dollar deficit. For the rest, he was dealing with the worst economic crisis in 80 years. I don't lay any of that -- or the resulting deficit -- at his doorstep.

In fact, I view him as pretty much being a net zero. He didn't do much to help or hurt. That's because few/none of the policies he implemented -- outside of those relating to the crisis -- had a dramatic effect either way on the deficit on a per year basis. His (and Democrats') overly zealous regulatory efforts crimped the American economy, which is difficult to quantify, but that surely drove down tax revenues to some extent.

Obamacare would have had more of an impact over time, of course, but by the end of his term it's impact wasn't significant.
Obama didn't inherit a budget. He inherited a continuing resolution and then signed his first, deficit busting budget after he took office.
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Old 02-09-2018, 03:31 PM   #129
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Originally Posted by Amnorix View Post
Sure, you could look at it that way. You could also note that Clinton engaged in extensive welfare reform largely under pressure from a Republican controlled Congress, and that same Republican controlled Congress, with a Democratic President -- resulted in years upon years of gridlock which resulted in Clinton having effectively no ability to significantly increase government spending. Note also that the "dot.com" boom dramatically increased tax revenues, which largely drove the near-elimination of the deficit in his last year or two. He didn't care the dot.com boom, so...

Of course, ****head Bush then cut taxes to recreate/worsen the deficit.


Obama, meanwhile, gets a ridiculously disproportionate amount of blame for the deficit created during his Presidency. The first year of his administration, the budget was one he had inherited, and was a trillion dollar deficit. For the rest, he was dealing with the worst economic crisis in 80 years. I don't lay any of that -- or the resulting deficit -- at his doorstep.

In fact, I view him as pretty much being a net zero. He didn't do much to help or hurt. That's because few/none of the policies he implemented -- outside of those relating to the crisis -- had a dramatic effect either way on the deficit on a per year basis. His (and Democrats') overly zealous regulatory efforts crimped the American economy, which is difficult to quantify, but that surely drove down tax revenues to some extent.

Obamacare would have had more of an impact over time, of course, but by the end of his term it's impact wasn't significant.
This is all well taken except the idea that Obama's policies had little effect on economic and fiscal performance.

I think that's flat out laughable. I struggle to think of a single reputable source that would agree with you on that.
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Old 02-09-2018, 03:52 PM   #130
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This is all well taken except the idea that Obama's policies had little effect on economic and fiscal performance.

I think that's flat out laughable. I struggle to think of a single reputable source that would agree with you on that.
Artificially low interest rates, QE1 and QE2, were the drivers of growth and the stock market during Obama. These were allowed to remain in place because GDP growth was anemic. 1.6% GDP in 2016, it was going in the wrong direction.
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Old 02-09-2018, 04:24 PM   #131
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This is all well taken except the idea that Obama's policies had little effect on economic and fiscal performance.

I think that's flat out laughable. I struggle to think of a single reputable source that would agree with you on that.

What NEW programs/laws, putting aside those that involved resuscitating the economy, had a very significant effect on the amount of the deficit during the course of his presidency? Obamacare certainly had some, but probably not a net positive (which goes against your argument to begin with).

If you can identify some that had a significant impact in reducing the deficit, let me know. I can't remember any.
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Old 02-13-2018, 03:59 PM   #132
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Obama didn't inherit a budget. He inherited a continuing resolution and then signed his first, deficit busting budget after he took office.

Actually, what he inherited was a ****ing fiasco -- the worst economy since the 1930s, and a war that was untold billions of additional off-budget appropriations.
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Old 02-13-2018, 04:00 PM   #133
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This is all well taken except the idea that Obama's policies had little effect on economic and fiscal performance.

I think that's flat out laughable. I struggle to think of a single reputable source that would agree with you on that.

Could you please specify WHAT policies, exactly, of Obama's greatly improved the deficit? I'm honestly not able to remember any. Maybe there are some I'm not thinking of, so feel free to remind me.
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Old 02-13-2018, 04:09 PM   #134
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Actually, what he inherited was a ****ing fiasco -- the worst economy since the 1930s, and a war that was untold billions of additional off-budget appropriations.
But no budget. He signed his own.
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Old 02-14-2018, 06:08 AM   #135
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I'm guessing the point of this thread is to highlight reps being hypocrites.



Of course they are...
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