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Old 10-28-2017, 02:09 PM  
seamonster seamonster is offline
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Trotsky-esq Episcopalian's ban George Washington From his own Church

This is just shamefull. Anyone associated to the ridiculous fraudulent Church of England should just get out now before they start re-writing the bible.


George Washington’s church to tear down memorial honoring first president


Robert E. Lee plaque also to be taken down; both men attended Alexandria church


George Washington was one of the founding members of Christ Church in Alexandria, buying pew No. 5 when the church first opened in 1773, and attending for more than two decades.

This week the church announced it was pulling down a memorial to its one-time vestryman and the country’s first president, saying he and another famous parishioner, Robert E. Lee, have become too controversial and are chasing away would-be parishioners.

While acknowledging “friction” over the decision, the church’s leadership said the twin memorials, which are attached to the wall on either side of the altar, are relics of another era and have no business in a church that proclaims its motto as “All are welcome — no exceptions.”

“The plaques in our sanctuary make some in our presence feel unsafe or unwelcome. Some visitors and guests who worship with us choose not to return because they receive an unintended message from the prominent presence of the plaques,” the church leaders said.

A staffer at the church Friday said the decision was going to be announced to the church on Sunday.

For now the Lee memorial stands to the right of the altar and the Washington plaque to the left. The simple stone memorials, with gold-colored lettering, say: “In memory of George Washington.” and “In memory of Robert Edward Lee.”

The church also has small metal markers on the Washington family pew and the location where Lee was confirmed, but there is no other information or comment posted on the two men’s lives — and that’s part of the problem for the church, which signaled it fears commemoration without contextualization.

“Because the sanctuary is a worship space, not a museum, there is no appropriate way to inform visitors about the history of the plaques or to provide additional context except for the in-person tours provided by our docents,” the church leaders said.

They said the plaques will come down by next summer, but where they’ll end up is still being decided. The church also plans a new committee that will re-examine how the church tells its history.

It’s not clear that the church could divorce itself from Washington even if it wanted to. The website touts itself as “a church where George Washington worshipped,” and displays a picture of its famous patron.

As an original benefactor, Washington bought pew No. 5 when the church opened in 1773. He was a vestryman and contributed to the church throughout his life, according to the Washington Papers project. His family considered the church important enough to him that it donated one of his Bibles after his death.

Meanwhile Lee attended Christ Church beginning at age 3, when he moved from Stratford to Alexandria. The church was so integral to his family that Mary Custis Lee, his daughter, left the church $10,000 in her will upon her death in 1918. That money was used to begin the church’s endowment.

Church leaders did not say whether they will attempt to return the $10,000 gift from Lee’s daughter.

The church’s senior and junior wardens didn’t answer questions about the decision, referring back to the main church office.

The Rev. Noelle York-Simmons, rector of the church, said the decision was made by “unanimous vote” of the vestry.

“The new display location will be determined by a parish committee. That location will provide a place for our parish to offer a fuller narrative of our rich history, including the influence of these two powerful men on our church and our country,” she said in an email. “We look forward to this opportunity to continue to learn more about our own history and find new ways to introduce it to the wider community.”

The Lee and Washington families’ histories were intertwined with each other. Lee married Washington’s step-great granddaughter, Mary Custis.

And the two memorials at the church were erected at the same time in 1870, just months after Lee’s death. City residents paid for the memorials by subscription, and the placement of the plaques was momentous enough to merit coverage in newspapers from Massachusetts to San Francisco.

In recent years Lee monuments have been under scrutiny, with violence breaking out in Charlottesville earlier this year surrounding a Lee statue the city is trying to take down.

In the wake of those clashes, a church Lee attended in Lexington, Virginia, where he spent his last years, voted to change its name from R.E. Lee Memorial Church to Grace Episcopal Church.

And the Washington National Cathedral removed a stain glass window with an image of Lee.

Washington memorials had been spared such recriminations.

Christ Church, though, said the two men are inextricably linked in their history, and had to be considered together, since they were erected together and visually balance each other.

In their letter to parishioners the church’s leadership praised Washington as “the visionary who not only refused to be king but also gave up power after eight years, and a symbol of our democracy.” Lee, meanwhile, was described in less glowing terms, as a longtime parishioner who for some “symbolizes the attempt to overthrow the Union and to preserve slavery.”

“Today our country is trying once again to come to grips with the history of slavery and the subsequent disenfranchisement of people of color,” the leaders wrote.

Despite his generosity to Christ Church, Washington was a more regular attendant at Pohick Church, which stands south of Mount Vernon. A staffer at Pohick said they aren’t considering removing their connections to Washington from their church.
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Old 10-28-2017, 06:22 PM   #16
WhiteWhale WhiteWhale is offline
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I support all separation of church and state. There should be more of this.
I support the silence of drooling nitwits who don't understand what that is.
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Old 10-28-2017, 06:25 PM   #17
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Still trying to get this...

You're telling me the Founder of Our Nation is too controversial for the church he used to attend?

Am I taking crazy pills?
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Old 10-28-2017, 07:27 PM   #18
Black Bob Black Bob is offline
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
This was not an entanglement of the govt with religion when a former historical member is honored in a church. This was private action by a church. \

You need to get with some logic.
No, I get it. I commemend the church for doing the right thing. It SHOULD go both ways.
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Old 10-28-2017, 10:01 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Easy 6 View Post
Still trying to get this...

You're telling me the Founder of Our Nation is too controversial for the church he used to attend?

Am I taking crazy pills?
No, you're not taking crazy pills.

Trump was exactly right on this. Where does it end?

This country was fought for and built by men that had flaws but believed in a true freedom. They did that not knowing where it would go but in the end their vision was eventually lived.

The church elders are very stupid people. They deserve to have the building die in a fire and rebuilt in a metal shed.
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Old 10-28-2017, 10:01 PM   #20
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Why is there a memorial to any politician in a church to begin with?
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Old 10-28-2017, 10:03 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Dave Lane View Post
Why is there a memorial to any politician in a church to begin with?
Dumb.
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Old 10-28-2017, 10:18 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Dave Lane View Post
Why is there a memorial to any politician in a church to begin with?
Your contempt for our history, is only equaled by your ignorance of it

Those church leaders should all be charged with sedition... the very ground those morons walk upon is only possible thanks to George Washington
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Old 10-28-2017, 11:06 PM   #23
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Old 10-28-2017, 11:18 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by seamonster View Post
church that proclaims its motto as “All are welcome — no exceptions.”
Unless you are George Washington or Robert E. Lee.

Washington donated to the church to start it. Robert E. Lee's daughter left them $10,000 in 1918. Nothing like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

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Church leaders did not say whether they will attempt to return the $10,000 gift from Lee’s daughter.
They should if they are going to shit on Lee's memory. With inflation added in, they owe the Lee family a little over $176,000.
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Old 10-29-2017, 01:13 AM   #25
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Why is there a memorial to any politician in a church to begin with?
Pretty sure GW wasn't a politician.

Why do we have Obama public schools?
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Old 10-29-2017, 08:45 AM   #26
Aries Walker Aries Walker is offline
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Pretty sure GW wasn't a politician.
Au contraire. He wasn't just a politician, he was brilliant, principled, pragmatic, and put the nation above himself in every way. He's what every other politician should aspire to be.
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Old 10-29-2017, 08:51 AM   #27
Aries Walker Aries Walker is offline
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Why is there a memorial to any politician in a church to begin with?
Because they're also human. The plaques aren't commemorating their political selves, but their donations to that specific church.

This is a mistake, over the line. Removing Washington's is ludicrous, but even though I'm all for the statues coming down, I don't think they should remove Lee's either, not in this case. This plaque isn't a commemoration of his military actions against the state, but of his and his family's personal contributions to the church, and we shouldn't be trying to erase his existence completely like a Roman damnatio memoriae.

Yep, this is a mistake.
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Old 10-29-2017, 08:51 AM   #28
Aries Walker Aries Walker is offline
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Unless you are George Washington or Robert E. Lee.
That's a really good point.
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Old 10-29-2017, 09:06 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Aries Walker View Post
Because they're also human. The plaques aren't commemorating their political selves, but their donations to that specific church.

This is a mistake, over the line. Removing Washington's is ludicrous, but even though I'm all for the statues coming down, I don't think they should remove Lee's either, not in this case. This plaque isn't a commemoration of his military actions against the state, but of his and his family's personal contributions to the church, and we shouldn't be trying to erase his existence completely like a Roman damnatio memoriae.

Yep, this is a mistake.
It's more than a mistake. It's a contagious disease moving through weak minds.

The country, and species, would greatly benefit from a little Darwin.
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