2013 Sandbox Simulations League 1 Thread - Page 54

DJ's left nut · 12:35 PM

Figured creating a new thread for the upcoming league 1 season would probably help consolidate discussion.

Teams:

Anchorage Roadkill Rabbits lostcause
Austin Armadillos noa
Cedar Rapids Angry Clam Hammers dj56dt58
Chula Vista cripplas mrroandro
Clearwater Donkeys DJsleftnut
Dallas K-Swiss Tubes Zeke
Denver Broncos Wonton prejudice (gochiefs).
Duluth Pillagers rain man
Fort Wayne Dukes jerm
Fort Worth Drifters KCChiefsman
High Point Knob Hills ChiefAshhole20
Independence Vision cdcox
Kansas City Ball Busters Kyle DeLexus
Las Vegas Lonely Strippers sfchief
Overland Park Chiefs Old Dog
Pittsburgh Tacos brorth
Portland Rhein Foster (not a cp member - contact via djsleftnut)
Provo Knuckledraggers rageeumr
Richmond Tigerhawks carlos3652
Springfield Attack bevischief
St Joseph Stetsons austinchief
Topeka Tyrannicide Allen_kccard
Ventura Highways rockchalk
Wichita Potheads Confirmed topher79

Spoiler!

Hammock Parties · 05-30-2013, 04:59 PM

Anyone ready? YOU GUYS READY? I WANT TO BID BID BID BID

Hammock Parties · 05-30-2013, 05:05 PM

I'm starting to wonder if the lone punter in FA is going to get a max contract.

**cdcox** · 05-30-2013, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Branden Albert's Huge Balls

I'm starting to wonder if the lone punter in FA is going to get a max contract.

I'll add punters and keekers by the time FA starts.

**cdcox** · 05-30-2013, 05:37 PM

Based on the feedback we've received and a lot of discussions between Rain Man and me, I think we're converging on a new system that incorporates many of the suggestions you've made. The new system won't completely satisfy everyone's desires, but I think most of you will think this is at least a large step in the right direction. Playability and a meaningful free agency period are still guiding principals of the design of the new system. Rain Man will describe new system in a day or two and soon after we'll reboot the bidding and implement the new system. You might want to take notes about any current contracts to facilitate entering the new ones.

Due to deadlines we're both working though, it might be a few days before all of this goes down. But the new system should be active no later than sometime on Sunday and we are still set to begin free agency bidding on Sunday June 9.

You'll need to have your rosters at 53 or below and all of your contracts signed in order to access the bidding system on June 9.

**Rain Man** · 05-30-2013, 06:26 PM

Okay, here's what we're proposing.

We're hearing three main critiques: rookies are too expensive, contract lengths and costs for mid-tier players/positional value, and a desire to keep some players from becoming free agents.

The Rookie Issue:

We'll have a rookie contract table that is separate and used only for the draft. It will price contract lengths by round, though as a concession to ease of use it will not price by position.

It will look like this:

Code:

Rookie Contract Prices - Signing Points							
	Round 1	Round 2	Round 3	Round 4	Round 5	Round 6	Round 7
7 Years	110	70	50	40	30	25	20
6 Years	84	53	38	30	23	19	15
5 Years	61	39	28	22	17	14	11
4 Years	41	26	19	15	11	9	7
3 Years	24	15	11	9	7	6	4
2 Years	11	7	5	4	3	3	2
1 Year	0	0	0	0	0	0	0

The Positional Value/Contract Length Issue:

For free agents, the bidding will proceed as normal. However, the pricing will be based on five position tiers:

Tier 1 - QB
Tier 2 – HB, LT, WR, CB, 3-4 OLB, 4-3 DE
Tier 3 - TE, DT, NT, 3-4 DE, 4-3 LB, MLB/ILB
Tier 4 –G, C, RT, *S, FB, KR/PR if no other position listed
Tier 5 – P, K = 0.5

When you bid on a free agent or re-sign a player, the contract length correlates to the amount of money you pay for them. It's the same system originally put forth, but now we delineate by positional value.

The table below shows the thresholds for each contract length. Once you pay above the thresholds shown below, you have the rights to that player for X years (unless you trade him). So for example, if you pay 40 points for a defensive tackle, who is a Tier 3 player, you get his rights for four years. (Look at Tier 3, and if you pay between 37 and 54 points it's a four-year contract.) If you pay 40 points for a quarterback, who is a Tier 1 player, you only get his rights for two years. If you paid that quarterback 44 points you could up his contract to three years.

Code:

Tier 1	Tier 2	Tier 3	Tier 4	Tier 5	
200	125	100	85	50	7 year
152	95	76	65	38	6 year
110	69	55	47	28	5 year
74	46	37	31	19	4 year
44	28	22	19	11	3 year
20	13	10	9	5	2 year
0	0	0	0	0	1 year

The Retain My Players Issue:

At the end of each season, all of your players with 0 contract years remaining will go to free agency, just like usual. However, there are two exceptions to the existing rule.
You can retain up to two players before they go through free agency. However, in order to do so, you must give them a contract of five years or longer. Also, note that they are now paid on the veteran scale.

Note that you can still retain the players by beating the high bid, as discussed in the initial rules.

rageeumr · 05-30-2013, 08:28 PM

I think this is a pretty good solution. It addresses most of the concerns that were brought up without making the process overly complicated.

I'll be honest, when I first glanced at the tables Rain Man posted my eyes started to glaze over a little bit, but once I read through it it's pretty straightforward.

sfchief · 05-30-2013, 08:53 PM

This is very good. I know it's more complicated that you would have liked.
I do think it will simulate the constraints of a salary cap more realistically, while also putting good players in the FA market.

Bless you beautiful bastards for this game it's going eat up many an hour from my life

carlos3652 · 05-31-2013, 08:24 AM

Excellent job guys... this is amazing.

Question - When you retain 2 players - is that when you have to give them a 5 year contract? Or/and do they have to be on an original 5 year contract to be retained?

Thank you.

**Rain Man** · 05-31-2013, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carlos3652

Excellent job guys... this is amazing.

Question - When you retain 2 players - is that when you have to give them a 5 year contract? Or/and do they have to be on an original 5 year contract to be retained?

Thank you.

You have to give them a five-year contract (or longer). It doesn't matter what their first contract was.

We're hoping the fun part of this is that you have to make a decision with an ascending player about locking him down or letting him go in hopes that you can re-sign him cheaper after he tests the market. I suspect we may have to tweak the signing dollars everyone gets each year until we get the right balance, so we're hoping nothing goes wonky the first year or two with hyperinflation or deflation or something.

carlos3652 · 05-31-2013, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rain Man

You have to give them a five-year contract (or longer). It doesn't matter what their first contract was.

We're hoping the fun part of this is that you have to make a decision with an ascending player about locking him down or letting him go in hopes that you can re-sign him cheaper after he tests the market. I suspect we may have to tweak the signing dollars everyone gets each year until we get the right balance, so we're hoping nothing goes wonky the first year or two with hyperinflation or deflation or something.

I think this is very smart because it makes you think and hesitate on some players that are a bit older and or who have a breakout year the year you have to decide... (contract year). LOL - pretty realistic in my opinion... the 5 year contracts acts like a franchise tag for the 2 retained players...

**Rain Man** · 05-31-2013, 12:03 PM

Okay, cdcox is making the necessary changes to implement these revisions. Stand down for a bit and he'll have the new and improved system (now with "fresh summer breeze smell") up shortly.

DJ's left nut · 05-31-2013, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rain Man

Okay, cdcox is making the necessary changes to implement these revisions. Stand down for a bit and he'll have the new and improved system (now with "fresh summer breeze smell") up shortly.

A first run through my roster suggests that my roster and the contracts therein are going to cost me about $150 more than they used to, putting me pretty far above the $1,300 threshhold.

I assume all previous contracts are going to be nullified by the changeover?

**Rain Man** · 05-31-2013, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

A first run through my roster suggests that my roster and the contracts therein are going to cost me about $150 more than they used to, putting me pretty far above the $1,300 threshhold.

I assume all previous contracts are going to be nullified by the changeover?

Yeah, we'll do a reset for anyone who asks. Want one?

DJ's left nut · 05-31-2013, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rain Man

Yeah, we'll do a reset for anyone who asks. Want one?

Unless I can just leave it as is and keep my present FA balance...

If I'm going to get a retroactive kick to the gonads, yeah, that's gonna need to be re-set.

**Rain Man** · 05-31-2013, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Unless I can just leave it as is and keep my present FA balance...

If I'm going to get a retroactive kick to the gonads, yeah, that's gonna need to be re-set.

Brace yourself. This is going to hurt a little when cdcox does it.

05-14-2013, 08:57 AM
DJ's left nut Sauntering Vaguely Downwards Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Columbia, Mo Casino cash: $3039099	2013 Sandbox Simulations League 1 Thread Figured creating a new thread for the upcoming league 1 season would probably help consolidate discussion. Teams: Anchorage Roadkill Rabbits lostcause Austin Armadillos noa Cedar Rapids Angry Clam Hammers dj56dt58 Chula Vista cripplas mrroandro Clearwater Donkeys DJsleftnut Dallas K-Swiss Tubes Zeke Denver Broncos Wonton prejudice (gochiefs). Duluth Pillagers rain man Fort Wayne Dukes jerm Fort Worth Drifters KCChiefsman High Point Knob Hills ChiefAshhole20 Independence Vision cdcox Kansas City Ball Busters Kyle DeLexus Las Vegas Lonely Strippers sfchief Overland Park Chiefs Old Dog Pittsburgh Tacos brorth Portland Rhein Foster (not a cp member - contact via djsleftnut) Provo Knuckledraggers rageeumr Richmond Tigerhawks carlos3652 Springfield Attack bevischief St Joseph Stetsons austinchief Topeka Tyrannicide Allen_kccard Ventura Highways rockchalk Wichita Potheads Confirmed topher79 Spoiler! Anchorage Roadkill Rabbits lostcause Josh Gordon Austin Armadillos noa Lavonte David David Wilson Vick Ballard Cedar Rapids Angry Clam Hammers dj56dt58 Robert Griffin III Harrison Smith Riley Reiff Chula Vista cripplas mrroandro Morris Claiborne Shea McClellin Clearwater Donkeys DJsleftnut Chandler Jones Bruce Irvin Melvin Ingram Dallas K-Swiss Tubes Zeke AIDS Ass Cancer Denver Broncos Wonton prejudice Michael Brockers Dwayne Allen Chris Givens Duluth Pillagers rain man Courtney Upshaw Fort Wayne Dukes jerm Mark Barron Fort Worth Drifters KCChiefsman Doug Martin Mychal Kendricks High Point Knob Hills ChiefAshhole20 Trent Richardson Witney Mercilus Kelechi Osemele Independence Vision cdcox Mitchell Schwartz Kansas City Ball Busters Kyle DeLexus Luke Kuechly Mike Martin Brandon Weeden Las Vegas Lonely Strippers sfchief Fletcher Cox Alfonzo Dennard Overland Park Chiefs Old Dog Matt Kalil Derek Wolfe Pittsburgh Tacos brorth Alfred Morris Kendall Wright AJ Jenkins Portland Rhein Foster: Andrew Luck Cordy Glenn Provo Knuckledraggers rageeumr Justin Blackmon Kevin Zeitler An unemployed Nickle Corner Richmond Tigerhawks carlos3652 Zach Brown Tavon Wilson Josh Robinson Springfield Attack bevischief Ryan Tannehill Dre Kirkpatrick St Joseph Stetsons austinchief Casey Hayward David DeCastro Brandon Taylor Topeka Tyrannicide Allen_kccard Russell Wilson Bernard Pierce Ventura Highways rockchalk Stephon Gilmore Coby Fleener Wichita Potheads Confirmed topher79 Dont'a Hightower Some kicker. Idiot. Last edited by DJ's left nut; 05-24-2013 at 12:35 PM..
Posts: 60,174

05-30-2013, 04:59 PM	#796
Hammock Parties I'll be back. Join Date: Nov 2002 Casino cash: $4750478	Anyone ready? YOU GUYS READY? I WANT TO BID BID BID BID __________________ Chiefs game films
Posts: 277,636

05-30-2013, 05:05 PM	#797
Hammock Parties I'll be back. Join Date: Nov 2002 Casino cash: $4750478	I'm starting to wonder if the lone punter in FA is going to get a max contract. __________________ Chiefs game films
Posts: 277,636

05-30-2013, 05:37 PM	#799
cdcox www.nfl-forecast.com Join Date: Sep 2000 Casino cash: $2371769	Based on the feedback we've received and a lot of discussions between Rain Man and me, I think we're converging on a new system that incorporates many of the suggestions you've made. The new system won't completely satisfy everyone's desires, but I think most of you will think this is at least a large step in the right direction. Playability and a meaningful free agency period are still guiding principals of the design of the new system. Rain Man will describe new system in a day or two and soon after we'll reboot the bidding and implement the new system. You might want to take notes about any current contracts to facilitate entering the new ones. Due to deadlines we're both working though, it might be a few days before all of this goes down. But the new system should be active no later than sometime on Sunday and we are still set to begin free agency bidding on Sunday June 9. You'll need to have your rosters at 53 or below and all of your contracts signed in order to access the bidding system on June 9.
Posts: 45,536

05-30-2013, 06:26 PM	#800
Rain Man NFL's #1 Ermines Fan Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: My house Casino cash: $3358491 VARSITY	Okay, here's what we're proposing. We're hearing three main critiques: rookies are too expensive, contract lengths and costs for mid-tier players/positional value, and a desire to keep some players from becoming free agents. The Rookie Issue: We'll have a rookie contract table that is separate and used only for the draft. It will price contract lengths by round, though as a concession to ease of use it will not price by position. It will look like this: Code: Rookie Contract Prices - Signing Points Round 1 Round 2 Round 3 Round 4 Round 5 Round 6 Round 7 7 Years 110 70 50 40 30 25 20 6 Years 84 53 38 30 23 19 15 5 Years 61 39 28 22 17 14 11 4 Years 41 26 19 15 11 9 7 3 Years 24 15 11 9 7 6 4 2 Years 11 7 5 4 3 3 2 1 Year 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 The Positional Value/Contract Length Issue: For free agents, the bidding will proceed as normal. However, the pricing will be based on five position tiers: Tier 1 - QB Tier 2 – HB, LT, WR, CB, 3-4 OLB, 4-3 DE Tier 3 - TE, DT, NT, 3-4 DE, 4-3 LB, MLB/ILB Tier 4 –G, C, RT, S, FB, KR/PR if no other position listed Tier 5 – P, K = 0.5 When you bid on a free agent or re-sign a player, the contract length correlates to the amount of money you pay for them. It's the same system originally put forth, but now we delineate by positional value. The table below shows the thresholds for each contract length. Once you pay above the thresholds shown below, you have the rights to that player for X years (unless you trade him). So for example, if you pay 40 points for a defensive tackle, who is a Tier 3 player, you get his rights for four years. (Look at Tier 3, and if you pay between 37 and 54 points it's a four-year contract.) If you pay 40 points for a quarterback, who is a Tier 1 player, you only get his rights for two years. If you paid that quarterback 44 points you could up his contract to three years. Code: Tier 1 Tier 2 Tier 3 Tier 4 Tier 5 200 125 100 85 50 7 year 152 95 76 65 38 6 year 110 69 55 47 28 5 year 74 46 37 31 19 4 year 44 28 22 19 11 3 year 20 13 10 9 5 2 year 0 0 0 0 0 1 year The Retain My Players Issue:* At the end of each season, all of your players with 0 contract years remaining will go to free agency, just like usual. However, there are two exceptions to the existing rule. You can retain up to two players before they go through free agency. However, in order to do so, you must give them a contract of five years or longer. Also, note that they are now paid on the veteran scale. Note that you can still retain the players by beating the high bid, as discussed in the initial rules. __________________ I'm putting random letters here as a celebration of free speech: xigrakgrah misorojeq rkemeseit.
Posts: 141,249

05-30-2013, 08:28 PM	#801
rageeumr Veteran Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: St. Louis :( Casino cash: $9989900	I think this is a pretty good solution. It addresses most of the concerns that were brought up without making the process overly complicated. I'll be honest, when I first glanced at the tables Rain Man posted my eyes started to glaze over a little bit, but once I read through it it's pretty straightforward.
Posts: 2,313

05-30-2013, 08:53 PM	#802
sfchief Drinking the Kool Aid Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Glen park SF Casino cash: $9291005	This is very good. I know it's more complicated that you would have liked. I do think it will simulate the constraints of a salary cap more realistically, while also putting good players in the FA market. Bless you beautiful bastards for this game it's going eat up many an hour from my life Last edited by sfchief; 05-30-2013 at 09:02 PM..
Posts: 343

05-31-2013, 08:24 AM	#803
carlos3652 El Diablo Join Date: Dec 2004 Casino cash: $4116679	Excellent job guys... this is amazing. Question - When you retain 2 players - is that when you have to give them a 5 year contract? Or/and do they have to be on an original 5 year contract to be retained? Thank you.
Posts: 6,066

05-31-2013, 12:03 PM	#806
Rain Man NFL's #1 Ermines Fan Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: My house Casino cash: $3358491 VARSITY	Okay, cdcox is making the necessary changes to implement these revisions. Stand down for a bit and he'll have the new and improved system (now with "fresh summer breeze smell") up shortly. __________________ I'm putting random letters here as a celebration of free speech: xigrakgrah misorojeq rkemeseit.
Posts: 141,249