Chiefs The Future of Eric Fisher - Page 4

kccrow · 02-10-2016, 12:56 AM

Let's discuss Eric Fisher. I'm going to give my thoughts, which are long-winded and detailed from a contractual perspective.

Coming to an agreement on an extension for Eric Fisher should be of great importance to the Chiefs this offseason. Fisher is in the final year of his rookie contract, but being a first round pick he could be optioned for a fifth year. Consideration of the option year is where the Chiefs need to be diligent. This year's transition tag value for offensive lineman will be the option year salary for Eric Fisher should the Chiefs decided to exercise it since Fisher was a top 10 selection. Based on salary data available from OverTheCap.com, the transition tag value is set to be around $10,764,053. Obviously, that figure will not be perfectly accurate but it will be a very near approximation. Nearly $10.8 million for Eric Fisher in 2017 is an unacceptable figure based on his level of play so far in his career. That salary would place Fisher, as it stands now, 9th overall in salary for offensive lineman in 2017. Not only does the transition tag figure not fit Fisher's current level of production, but it also will significantly impact the salary cap.

I do not argue that Fisher has been quietly ascending as a player, but he has performed far below his lofty draft status of first overall and certainly would not be a top 10 offensive lineman at this juncture. It makes sense on multiple fronts for the Chiefs to extend Fisher to, hopefully, reduce his 2016 cap hit ($7.06 million) and his cap hits in future years.

When it comes to Fisher, I think you have to start looking at the Will Beatty and Joe Staley type of contracts in the $7.5 million average per year range and work off of that. Even though I don't think Fisher deserves that type of salary and would argue for a Michael Oher-like low APY, I do realize this is a league where salaries are going to continue to increase. At this point, I can't fathom Fisher as anymore than a middle of the league left tackle, and a $7.5 million APY would certainly reflect that going forward. A large portion of Fisher's contract should be incentive laden without a ton of guaranteed money but we'll have to see how KC handles that.

What would I offer Eric Fisher? Let's start by converting his currently guaranteed roster bonus of $2,755,977 to a signing bonus and giving him an additional $5 million added to that, for a total signing bonus of $7,755,977. Also, give him an option bonus in 2017 of $10 million that is fully guaranteed at signing. This will allow the Chiefs to spread what is effectively a $17,755,977 signing bonus out over 6 years instead of 5. Leave his current $675,000 salary for 2016 in tact and fully guaranteed, bringing him to $18.43 million in guaranteed money. Fisher gains $15 million in new, guaranteed money for the extension, while the Chiefs receive the ability to prorate over a longer period of time. Give Fisher $250,000 workout bonuses in all 6 years of the deal. Add in $500,000 in roster bonuses as injury and performance incentives in 2017 through 2020. Add a $2,000,000 roster bonus in 2021. Give him salaries of $3.0, 3.75, 4.0, 4.75, and 6.0 million in 2017 through 2021. The new contract for the entire 6 years becomes a $49,060,612 deal with $18,430,977 fully guaranteed for an APY of $8,176,769 and 37.6% guaranteed. Annual cap hits would be approximately $6.1, 7.3, 8.0, 8.3, 9.0, and 10.3 million. The extension adds $42 million in new money to the deal, which provides $7.0 APY over the 5 new years with 36% guaranteed. Oh, and the Chiefs would free up nearly $955,000 in 2016 using this format.

Obviously old money escalates the deal slightly above my target, but I'd feel pretty good about the new money and his cap hits would be middle of the road going forward for left tackles. This is a contract that isn't that Chiefs' friendly in terms of being able to cut Fisher before 2020, but I think he's shown considerable growth and you're banking on that continuing. The only question is, how do Eric Fisher and his agent view Eric Fisher at this point? If they view his value over and above this, I think the Chiefs would be wise to not elect to use the option and see if Fisher grows in 2016. Even if Fisher turns into the best tackle in the NFL (doubtful at best) that warrants a Trent Williams deal, the Chiefs wouldn't be losing in 2017.

Eleazar · 05-02-2016, 09:27 AM

He's continually improved and was dominant at times last year, and CP hated the pick like no pick ever, so I'd say his future is probably... top 10 LT, maybe pro bowl.

DJ's left nut · 05-02-2016, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KnowMo2724

The downside of giving Fisher the 5th year option is trying to negotiate him down from that $12M option number. That's top 5 tackle money and I don't think Fisher is worth that.

Again - not a fully guaranteed option.

He can't anchor at $12 million when he could still get cut in the offseason and not get a dime of it.

RunKC · 05-02-2016, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rausch

He's absolutely not worth $12 million. He was respectable this year.

Not great, not top 10. Respectable.

And in some games played like $3it. Not to mention the whole ankle situation where Stephenson (sucked so bad he's gone Stephenson) played great while Fish nursed a sprained ankle of questionable magnitude.

It's one thing to say he went from clear bust in year one to respectable/solid starter in year 4. I think that's fair.

To say he's worth $12 million is insane. Hell, Smith and co. managed to make the playoffs when he played like ass his rookie year.

I'd overpay Poe and Berry with that money before I gave Fisher a dime over $6 mil....

Even average LT's are extremely difficult to find nowadays. He's got a lot of value here and he looked like a top 10 caliber LT at the end of the season.

I think $10 million is the right area for him, but I was just talking about $12 million or losing him.

He struggled early, but he's clearly an above average as of the end of last year and he's played 32 of his last 34 games so he's been very reliable the last couple of years.

**BossChief** · 05-02-2016, 09:35 AM

If they can ink Fisher for 11m per, it would be a solid deal.

Fisher plays a position of huge importance and has improved every year and was pretty good down the stretch and in the postseason.

If he has a solid offseason on strength and technique work, he will continue to ascend at a position we need to be very good at to win this division.

Von Miller, Demarcus Ware, Shaq Barrett, Joey Bosa, Melvin Ingram, Khalil Mack, Calhoun, etc...lots of good pass rushers.

We need Eric Fisher to be here long term and to keep improving.

**DaneMcCloud** · 05-02-2016, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BossChief

If they can ink Fisher for 11m per, it would be a solid deal.

Fisher plays a position of huge importance and has improved every year and was pretty good down the stretch and in the postseason.

If he has a solid offseason on strength and technique work, he will continue to ascend at a position we need to be very good at to win this division.

Von Miller, Demarcus Ware, Shaq Barrett, Joey Bosa, Melvin Ingram, Khalil Mack, Calhoun, etc...lots of good pass rushers.

We need Eric Fisher to be here long term and to keep improving.

Not to mention, starting over at square one if they allow him to leave.

It's more likely than not that the Chiefs will be drafting at the bottom of the first round for the foreseeable future and as we all know, top tier tackles go in the Top Ten (unless you smoke pot with a gas mask on, make a video and post it to Instagram).

The idea of giving up picks in order to move up from #28 to #10 to draft probably the second best left tackle in the draft is completely unappealing. Any trades into the top ten should involve a QB, not a lineman.

DJ's left nut · 05-02-2016, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Not to mention, starting over at square one if they allow him to leave.

It's more likely than not that the Chiefs will be drafting at the bottom of the first round for the foreseeable future and as we all know, top tier tackles go in the Top Ten (unless you smoke pot with a gas mask on, make a video and post it to Instagram).

The idea of giving up picks in order to move up from #28 to #10 to draft probably the second best left tackle in the draft is completely unappealing. Any trades into the top ten should involve a QB, not a lineman.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA............

......{INHALE}...........HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!

You said trade up in the first! Holy shit that's rich. Top form, Dane. Top form man.

Here's a thought - we could let Fisher walk, trade BACK in the first and draft 3 tackles in the 5th round while praying that at least one of them doesn't suck dicks and that 29 other teams were just flat out wrong about him 4 separate times.

Could totally happen.

O.city · 05-02-2016, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA............

......{INHALE}...........HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!

You said trade up in the first! Holy shit that's rich. Top form, Dane. Top form man.

Here's a thought - we could let Fisher walk, trade BACK in the first and draft 3 tackles in the 5th round while praying that at least one of them doesn't suck dicks and that 29 other teams were just flat out wrong about him 4 separate times.

Could totally happen.

Who did you have an eye on trading up for this year? I know you were vocal about doing it, don't remember if you ever put a name out who you wanted to go up for.

**BossChief** · 05-02-2016, 10:10 AM

The good news is that Dorsey has been talking to Fisher, Berry AND Poe about extensions for at minimum a few months.

Hopefully, Dorsey get something done with all 3 sooner or later.

I mean, he needs to get something done with Berry JUST TO HAVE THE CAP SPACE TO SIGN THE ROOKIE CLASS.

**BossChief** · 05-02-2016, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA............

......{INHALE}...........HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!

You said trade up in the first! Holy shit that's rich. Top form, Dane. Top form man.

Here's a thought - we could let Fisher walk, trade BACK in the first and draft 3 tackles in the 5th round while praying that at least one of them doesn't suck dicks and that 29 other teams were just flat out wrong about him 4 separate times.

Could totally happen.

You saw Steinburgs tweet that KC tried to move up for Lynch, right?

O.city · 05-02-2016, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BossChief

The good news is that Dorsey has been talking to Fisher, Berry AND Poe about extensions for at minimum a few months.

Hopefully, Dorsey get something done with all 3 sooner or later.

I mean, he needs to get something done with Berry JUST TO HAVE THE CAP SPACE TO SIGN THE ROOKIE CLASS.

Iirc, the rookie money is already slotted into the cap. You can't spend it

DJ's left nut · 05-02-2016, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BossChief

You saw Steinburgs tweet that KC tried to move up for Lynch, right?

Is ineffective better than complacent?

**BossChief** · 05-02-2016, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

Iirc, the rookie money is already slotted into the cap. You can't spend it

Well, I wonder if that's right.

I just checked overthecap and we used to have under 2m in cap space and now we have 5.7m.

Maybe that's because the difference is what the NFL holds back to make sure the rookies are paid and everybody gets to camp on time.

Viper400 · 05-02-2016, 10:52 AM

Has Fish reached his ceiling? He has seemed to show improvement, although that doesn't mean that he is any more than average.

An extension has to be in the works. He is not worth 11.9 mil.

**BossChief** · 05-02-2016, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Is ineffective better than complacent?

What we know...

KC didn't have a third rounder
Denver traded up using their 3rd rounder to move up.
This was a very deep draft with 1st/2nd round talents falling into the deep third and early fourth round.

Barring injury, Lynch wouldn't play in KC for at least 2 years.

So...

We would have Lynch (who wouldn't play for 2 years) and then picks starting in late round 4 to help fill holes on the roster to outbid Denver to move up.

Instead, Dorsey turned that into Chris Jones, KeiVarae Russel, Parker Ehinger, Eric Murray and DJ White.

I wanted Lynch, too...but passing (due to not having a third) and adding all that talent to the existing roster that will contribute the next 2 years (where Lynch would have sat and learned) probably means the Chiefs in 2016 and 2017 are going to be a much better team that if we had moved up for Lynch.

Alex Smith is under contract the next 3 years and there are going to be more QBs in the draft that Dorsey will scout and hopefully draft.

O.city · 05-02-2016, 11:09 AM

If they wanted lynch, they could have gotten him. I don't think they did, especially seeing the report that they had a deal in place with Dallas to go down if he were there round 1.

From where I'm sutting, looks like they'd honed in on Jones from the beginning, figured they could get him where they did and we're blowing alot of ass smoke

02-10-2016, 12:56 AM
kccrow MVP Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Michigan Casino cash: $3287078	The Future of Eric Fisher Let's discuss Eric Fisher. I'm going to give my thoughts, which are long-winded and detailed from a contractual perspective. Coming to an agreement on an extension for Eric Fisher should be of great importance to the Chiefs this offseason. Fisher is in the final year of his rookie contract, but being a first round pick he could be optioned for a fifth year. Consideration of the option year is where the Chiefs need to be diligent. This year's transition tag value for offensive lineman will be the option year salary for Eric Fisher should the Chiefs decided to exercise it since Fisher was a top 10 selection. Based on salary data available from OverTheCap.com, the transition tag value is set to be around $10,764,053. Obviously, that figure will not be perfectly accurate but it will be a very near approximation. Nearly $10.8 million for Eric Fisher in 2017 is an unacceptable figure based on his level of play so far in his career. That salary would place Fisher, as it stands now, 9th overall in salary for offensive lineman in 2017. Not only does the transition tag figure not fit Fisher's current level of production, but it also will significantly impact the salary cap. I do not argue that Fisher has been quietly ascending as a player, but he has performed far below his lofty draft status of first overall and certainly would not be a top 10 offensive lineman at this juncture. It makes sense on multiple fronts for the Chiefs to extend Fisher to, hopefully, reduce his 2016 cap hit ($7.06 million) and his cap hits in future years. When it comes to Fisher, I think you have to start looking at the Will Beatty and Joe Staley type of contracts in the $7.5 million average per year range and work off of that. Even though I don't think Fisher deserves that type of salary and would argue for a Michael Oher-like low APY, I do realize this is a league where salaries are going to continue to increase. At this point, I can't fathom Fisher as anymore than a middle of the league left tackle, and a $7.5 million APY would certainly reflect that going forward. A large portion of Fisher's contract should be incentive laden without a ton of guaranteed money but we'll have to see how KC handles that. What would I offer Eric Fisher? Let's start by converting his currently guaranteed roster bonus of $2,755,977 to a signing bonus and giving him an additional $5 million added to that, for a total signing bonus of $7,755,977. Also, give him an option bonus in 2017 of $10 million that is fully guaranteed at signing. This will allow the Chiefs to spread what is effectively a $17,755,977 signing bonus out over 6 years instead of 5. Leave his current $675,000 salary for 2016 in tact and fully guaranteed, bringing him to $18.43 million in guaranteed money. Fisher gains $15 million in new, guaranteed money for the extension, while the Chiefs receive the ability to prorate over a longer period of time. Give Fisher $250,000 workout bonuses in all 6 years of the deal. Add in $500,000 in roster bonuses as injury and performance incentives in 2017 through 2020. Add a $2,000,000 roster bonus in 2021. Give him salaries of $3.0, 3.75, 4.0, 4.75, and 6.0 million in 2017 through 2021. The new contract for the entire 6 years becomes a $49,060,612 deal with $18,430,977 fully guaranteed for an APY of $8,176,769 and 37.6% guaranteed. Annual cap hits would be approximately $6.1, 7.3, 8.0, 8.3, 9.0, and 10.3 million. The extension adds $42 million in new money to the deal, which provides $7.0 APY over the 5 new years with 36% guaranteed. Oh, and the Chiefs would free up nearly $955,000 in 2016 using this format. Obviously old money escalates the deal slightly above my target, but I'd feel pretty good about the new money and his cap hits would be middle of the road going forward for left tackles. This is a contract that isn't that Chiefs' friendly in terms of being able to cut Fisher before 2020, but I think he's shown considerable growth and you're banking on that continuing. The only question is, how do Eric Fisher and his agent view Eric Fisher at this point? If they view his value over and above this, I think the Chiefs would be wise to not elect to use the option and see if Fisher grows in 2016. Even if Fisher turns into the best tackle in the NFL (doubtful at best) that warrants a Trent Williams deal, the Chiefs wouldn't be losing in 2017.
Posts: 12,593

05-02-2016, 09:27 AM	#46
Eleazar Beyond the Rapids Join Date: May 2003 Location: Langley, VA Casino cash: $-370000	He's continually improved and was dominant at times last year, and CP hated the pick like no pick ever, so I'd say his future is probably... top 10 LT, maybe pro bowl.
Posts: 80,659

05-02-2016, 09:35 AM	#49
BossChief SuperBowl or bust Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: BF Iowa Casino cash: $1914088	If they can ink Fisher for 11m per, it would be a solid deal. Fisher plays a position of huge importance and has improved every year and was pretty good down the stretch and in the postseason. If he has a solid offseason on strength and technique work, he will continue to ascend at a position we need to be very good at to win this division. Von Miller, Demarcus Ware, Shaq Barrett, Joey Bosa, Melvin Ingram, Khalil Mack, Calhoun, etc...lots of good pass rushers. We need Eric Fisher to be here long term and to keep improving. __________________ Dreams do come true... http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showp...postcount=1407
Posts: 47,105

05-02-2016, 10:10 AM	#53
BossChief SuperBowl or bust Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: BF Iowa Casino cash: $1914088	The good news is that Dorsey has been talking to Fisher, Berry AND Poe about extensions for at minimum a few months. Hopefully, Dorsey get something done with all 3 sooner or later. I mean, he needs to get something done with Berry JUST TO HAVE THE CAP SPACE TO SIGN THE ROOKIE CLASS. __________________ Dreams do come true... http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showp...postcount=1407
Posts: 47,105

05-02-2016, 10:52 AM	#58
Viper400 Starter Join Date: Feb 2012 Casino cash: $9915025	Has Fish reached his ceiling? He has seemed to show improvement, although that doesn't mean that he is any more than average. An extension has to be in the works. He is not worth 11.9 mil.
Posts: 183

05-02-2016, 11:09 AM	#60
O.city In Search of a Life Join Date: Jul 2009 Casino cash: $2794064	If they wanted lynch, they could have gotten him. I don't think they did, especially seeing the report that they had a deal in place with Dallas to go down if he were there round 1. From where I'm sutting, looks like they'd honed in on Jones from the beginning, figured they could get him where they did and we're blowing alot of ass smoke
Posts: 81,178