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Old 04-26-2013, 10:28 AM  
Deberg_1990 Deberg_1990 is offline
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Florida baby dies from whooping cough. Parents chose not to vaccinate

http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/...ange-co/nXXqP/




Orange County health officials said a baby died from whooping cough last Thursday.

This is the first whooping cough death the county has seen in decades. Officials said it's been at least 20 years or more since someone died of the disease.

Whooping cough, also called pertussis, and other diseases are making comebacks, because so many parents are deciding not to vaccinate their kids.

"It's really unfortunate. We're saddened to hear that an infant died of something like this," said Dain Weister with the Florida Department of Health in Orange County.

Officials said the family chose not to vaccinate their child. Some parents are choosing not to fully vaccinate their children because they worry there is a link between the vaccinations and autism.

"A lot of people may not know (that) even the person who did that study admitted that study was flawed," Weister said.

Health officials said that has caused vaccinations to drop and the number of cases of measles, pertussis and other preventable diseases to go up.

Last year, Orange County had one case of measles and 42 cases of pertussis. This year there have already been four cases of measles and 12 cases of pertussis.

WFTV spoke to parents at the Orange County Health Department who said they don't want to take any chances.

"I feel like it's important so they can stay healthy and get all the shots and care that they need," parent Shaneatria Jones said.

Health officials believe the baby that died caught whooping cough from an adult.

Now they're urging parents to have their kids immunized to prevent another whooping cough death.
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Old 04-30-2013, 10:20 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by Fish View Post
You cannot contribute the additional ~1600 deaths to vaccines. Because no casual link exists to do so. And even if you could, those numbers are still insignificant overall.

As for the Rotavirus numbers, that needs a little explanation. Rotavirus only kills a small fraction of those infected with it. But hospitalizations for it in the US were dramatically higher. And US deaths would be much higher were it not for our advanced medical technology. Technology that isn't available in other countries. Countries without vaccines or adequate health care still see way too many Rotavirus deaths.



http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/vaccines/rotavsb.html
Yes, let's discard all test data if we don't have a confirmed causal link.

Rotavirus does kill many people in areas with poor healthcare. Maybe we should use the vaccines in those places rather than here, where it hardly kills anyone.
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Old 04-30-2013, 11:42 AM   #92
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Originally Posted by MagicHef View Post
Yes, let's discard all test data if we don't have a confirmed causal link.

Rotavirus does kill many people in areas with poor healthcare. Maybe we should use the vaccines in those places rather than here, where it hardly kills anyone.
LOL... no, I'm not saying discard test data. On the contrary. I'm saying don't assign a casual link where there is no proof of one. That's not discarding the data in the slightest. That's analyzing the test data, and finding no causal link.

Feel free to use all the data, and show a causal link if you find one. So far nothing that you've offered has shown it.

And yes, I would encourage using vaccines in those other countries. But what you're missing, is that fatalities are so low in the US because of the vaccines. You're trying to use the success of Rotavirus vaccines in the US, to say we don't need the vaccine in the US. But that's just stupid illogical. If we didn't use the vaccine, the US would be as bad as the rest of the world.
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Old 04-30-2013, 11:46 AM   #93
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Originally Posted by Fish View Post
LOL... no, I'm not saying discard test data. On the contrary. I'm saying don't assign a casual link where there is no proof of one. That's not discarding the data in the slightest. That's analyzing the test data, and finding no causal link.

Feel free to use all the data, and show a causal link if you find one. So far nothing that you've offered has shown it.

And yes, I would encourage using vaccines in those other countries. But what you're missing, is that fatalities are so low in the US because of the vaccines. You're trying to use the success of Rotavirus vaccines in the US, to say we don't need the vaccine in the US. But that's just stupid illogical. If we didn't use the vaccine, the US would be as bad as the rest of the world.
Success of the Rotavirus vaccine in the US? You must have missed that the 37 deaths per year was BEFORE the vaccine was developed. You're trying to assign that low death rate to the vaccine?
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Old 04-30-2013, 12:08 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by MagicHef View Post
Success of the Rotavirus vaccine in the US? You must have missed that the 37 deaths per year was BEFORE the vaccine was developed. You're trying to assign that low death rate to the vaccine?


As I already said, the somewhat low fatalities prior to the vaccine were due to our advanced US medical technology, which is not available to the majority of the world. The symptoms are diarrhea and dehydration, which are infinitely less life threatening when good health care is readily available. But make no mistake, the Rotavirus has been nearly eradicated in the US, saving untold millions in health care costs alone. In the rest of the world, where health care isn't readily available and the vaccine is not available, Rotavirus still kills almost half a million infants a year.

Quote:
A vaccine against rotavirus, an infectious disease that causes potentially deadly diarrhea in infants, has led to a remarkable drop in hospitalizations and visits to the emergency room, researchers say.

Since it was introduced two years ago, the RotaTeq vaccine has cut the number of new rotavirus cases by 66% to 100%, according to a number of studies.

There's even evidence the vaccine reduced spread of the infectious disease to children who were not immunized, the researchers say.

The findings were presented at a joint meeting of the American Society for Microbiology and the Infectious Diseases Society of America.

"The success of the rotavirus vaccine is a major theme of this meeting," says meeting co-chairman Michael Scheld, MD, of the University of Virginia School of Medicine in Charlottesville.

Rotavirus' Grim Toll

Prior to introduction of the vaccine, rotavirus took a grim toll in both industrialized and developing nations, researchers say. Among some of the statistics cited:
  • No. 1 cause of diarrhea-related hospitalizations and deaths in babies and young children
  • Responsible for about 400,000 physician visits, more than 200,000 emergency room visits, up to 70,000 hospital admissions, and 60 deaths every year in the U.S. alone
  • Causes 2 million hospitalizations worldwide annually
  • Blamed for nearly half a million deaths annually in children under 5 years.
  • A CDC study showed that the number of confirmed cases of rotavirus plummeted more than 80% in the 2007-2008 season, compared with the previous two years.
  • At the University of Massachusetts Medical School in Worcester, there was a "dramatic decrease" in rotavirus cases, from 65 cases per year before RotaTeq came on the market to 37 cases in 2007, according to researcher Steven Hatch, MD. This year, the figure fell to three, he tells WebMD.
  • Researchers at Children's Mercy Hospital in Kansas City, Mo., report that only 62 children were admitted for rotavirus infections in 2008, compared with more than 300 annually the previous four years.
  • In North Philadelphia, rotavirus-associated hospitalizations among infants aged 6 to 11 months dropped 94% since rotavirus vaccinations began in 2006, says Irini Daskalaki, MD, of Drexel University College of Medicine.

http://children.webmd.com/vaccines/n...-success-story
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Old 04-30-2013, 12:44 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by Fish View Post


As I already said, the somewhat low fatalities prior to the vaccine were due to our advanced US medical technology, which is not available to the majority of the world. The symptoms are diarrhea and dehydration, which are infinitely less life threatening when good health care is readily available. But make no mistake, the Rotavirus has been nearly eradicated in the US, saving untold millions in health care costs alone. In the rest of the world, where health care isn't readily available and the vaccine is not available, Rotavirus still kills almost half a million infants a year.
I literally laughed out loud at "somewhat low fatalities." If 1600 deaths per year is insignificant, as you claimed before, what does that make 37?

Weird that they would feel the need to put together a meeting to celebrate the success of a vaccine that was shown to increase the death rate of infants by 27%.

Also, while we're at it, why is there a positive correlation between number of vaccines and infant death rate in developed countries?

Historically, infants used to die most often in fall and winter, for obvious reasons. Now, they die most often at discrete ages: 2 months and 4 months, regardless of what season those ages occur in. Why would this change?

Infants are 8 times more likely to die within the 3 days following a vaccination than during any other 3 day period while they are infants. I can't imagine why.
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Old 04-30-2013, 01:50 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by MagicHef View Post
I literally laughed out loud at "somewhat low fatalities." If 1600 deaths per year is insignificant, as you claimed before, what does that make 37?

Weird that they would feel the need to put together a meeting to celebrate the success of a vaccine that was shown to increase the death rate of infants by 27%.

Also, while we're at it, why is there a positive correlation between number of vaccines and infant death rate in developed countries?

Historically, infants used to die most often in fall and winter, for obvious reasons. Now, they die most often at discrete ages: 2 months and 4 months, regardless of what season those ages occur in. Why would this change?

Infants are 8 times more likely to die within the 3 days following a vaccination than during any other 3 day period while they are infants. I can't imagine why.
Probably just a coincidence, uh-huh.
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Old 04-30-2013, 02:43 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by MagicHef View Post
I literally laughed out loud at "somewhat low fatalities." If 1600 deaths per year is insignificant, as you claimed before, what does that make 37?

Weird that they would feel the need to put together a meeting to celebrate the success of a vaccine that was shown to increase the death rate of infants by 27%.

Also, while we're at it, why is there a positive correlation between number of vaccines and infant death rate in developed countries?

Historically, infants used to die most often in fall and winter, for obvious reasons. Now, they die most often at discrete ages: 2 months and 4 months, regardless of what season those ages occur in. Why would this change?

Infants are 8 times more likely to die within the 3 days following a vaccination than during any other 3 day period while they are infants. I can't imagine why.
JFC.... Do you understand what happens during a vaccination? You're intentionally infecting the child with a weakened version of whatever you're intending to protect your child from. It's intended to be safe controlled exposure. Of course the child has a higher chance of death during the next 3 days, because you're intentionally infecting them. They tell you during the vaccination that you're immune system will be weakened for a temporary period. Because that's the entire point. An added bonus is that since you know when the vaccination will occur, you are able to plan for it.

This is completely expected, and is not proof of anything. Why do you think anti-vaccine proponents only note the danger for a 3-day window? Because after 3 days, your immune system is back to normal, as expected. The danger goes away after that, also as expected.

Using that as proof is akin to saying "You're 8 times more likely to die in a hospital in the 3 days after a heart bypass surgery." Should we note that correlation and declare that heart bypass surgeries are dangerous and should be outlawed? No, because it's nothing but pointless ****ing correlation.

Do you really want to risk the life of your child? Science and medicine overwhelmingly supports and encourages vaccines. The statistics back it up. Ignoring that is knowingly risking your child's life no differently than the idiot parents in the OP. We know how that turned out.......
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Old 04-30-2013, 03:03 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by Fish View Post
JFC.... Do you understand what happens during a vaccination? You're intentionally infecting the child with a weakened version of whatever you're intending to protect your child from. It's intended to be safe controlled exposure. Of course the child has a higher chance of death during the next 3 days, because you're intentionally infecting them. They tell you during the vaccination that you're immune system will be weakened for a temporary period. Because that's the entire point. An added bonus is that since you know when the vaccination will occur, you are able to plan for it.

This is completely expected, and is not proof of anything. Why do you think anti-vaccine proponents only note the danger for a 3-day window? Because after 3 days, your immune system is back to normal, as expected. The danger goes away after that, also as expected.

Using that as proof is akin to saying "You're 8 times more likely to die in a hospital in the 3 days after a heart bypass surgery." Should we note that correlation and declare that heart bypass surgeries are dangerous and should be outlawed? No, because it's nothing but pointless ****ing correlation.

Do you really want to risk the life of your child? Science and medicine overwhelmingly supports and encourages vaccines. The statistics back it up. Ignoring that is knowingly risking your child's life no differently than the idiot parents in the OP. We know how that turned out.......
So, would you say the safe part of "safe controlled exposure" is failing? It's not that children have a higher chance of death, it's that more children DO DIE. If they're dying, we're not doing the safe part quite right.

Why cause 1600 more deaths per year to save 37 lives?

Also, please post proof of the 3 day window you're talking about. From what I've seen, the negative effects last longer than that, they're just more pronounced in the first 3 days.

Iceland, Sweden, Japan, Norway and Finland all have less than half as many vaccinations on their schedule before one year than the US. They all also have infant mortality rates that are less than half of the US's. Please explain.
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Old 04-30-2013, 10:05 PM   #99
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So, would you say the safe part of "safe controlled exposure" is failing? It's not that children have a higher chance of death, it's that more children DO DIE. If they're dying, we're not doing the safe part quite right.

Why cause 1600 more deaths per year to save 37 lives?

Also, please post proof of the 3 day window you're talking about. From what I've seen, the negative effects last longer than that, they're just more pronounced in the first 3 days.

Iceland, Sweden, Japan, Norway and Finland all have less than half as many vaccinations on their schedule before one year than the US. They all also have infant mortality rates that are less than half of the US's. Please explain.
Who says it's failing? I don't mean to sound insensitive, but there are several million kids vaccinated each year, that experience the benefit of never suffering from dozens of diseases that would have killed them less than 50 years ago. Millions of kids. You're focusing on less than 0.2% of those involved, and you're doing so with unsubstantiated correlations.

The infant mortality rate is higher in the US than it should be. I'll fully acknowledge that. But the cause of that is completely unproven, and it's very dangerous to attribute it to the wrong thing. That's not to say that we should ignore known data. On the contrary, I think we should further investigate correlating links such as this. Study should absolutely start with correlating links such as this. But what we can't do is attribute a causal link where there isn't one. Current correlating links are being studied to the fullest. But nothing so far has proven a definite causal link to any negative effects of vaccination.

Considering the US, it's also noted that premature births are up well over 20% in the last 20 years or so. We don't know why that is either. But premie births also come with lots of complications, and unfortunately result in infant mortality in a high number of instances. It's very complicated. But all the data and interpretation of current viable studies indicate that vaccines are safe and encouraged for the overwhelming majority. I encourage all the further testing we can afford, while doing what we currently know is best for our children. It's as simple as that. That strategy would have likely prevented the deaths of the children in the OP...
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Old 05-01-2013, 07:51 AM   #100
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Because losing your infant child is not enough punishment?

Not vaccinating your kids for this isn't against the law, right?

They should be charged, they chose not to vaccinate their child with a proven vaccine to prevent whooping cough. They caused their child to die IMO.

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Old 05-01-2013, 07:52 AM   #101
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Who says it's failing? I don't mean to sound insensitive, but there are several million kids vaccinated each year, that experience the benefit of never suffering from dozens of diseases that would have killed them less than 50 years ago. Millions of kids. You're focusing on less than 0.2% of those involved, and you're doing so with unsubstantiated correlations.

The infant mortality rate is higher in the US than it should be. I'll fully acknowledge that. But the cause of that is completely unproven, and it's very dangerous to attribute it to the wrong thing. That's not to say that we should ignore known data. On the contrary, I think we should further investigate correlating links such as this. Study should absolutely start with correlating links such as this. But what we can't do is attribute a causal link where there isn't one. Current correlating links are being studied to the fullest. But nothing so far has proven a definite causal link to any negative effects of vaccination.

Considering the US, it's also noted that premature births are up well over 20% in the last 20 years or so. We don't know why that is either. But premie births also come with lots of complications, and unfortunately result in infant mortality in a high number of instances. It's very complicated. But all the data and interpretation of current viable studies indicate that vaccines are safe and encouraged for the overwhelming majority. I encourage all the further testing we can afford, while doing what we currently know is best for our children. It's as simple as that. That strategy would have likely prevented the deaths of the children in the OP...
Wow. Unsubstantiated correlation? Do you know how causation is proven in the medical field? Large (preferably controlled) studies are undertaken, if any correlations are discovered, alternative theories are introduced. If no alternative theories fit the data, causation is proven. This is how smoking was proven to cause lung cancer, after alternative theories such as sleep deprivation and heavy drinking were shown to not fit the data.

The GlaxoSmithKline study was actually a collection of 8 different controlled clinical trials containing over 70,000 infants. Do you have any alternative theories to explain the large 27.5% increase in death rate, as well as the mind boggling 78.1% increase in death rate due to pneumonia?

Also, I asked you once already to back up your claim that "..after 3 days, your immune system is back to normal, as expected. The danger goes away after that, also as expected. "

Now I'm asking again. I'd hate to think that while I'm being careful to make sure everything I post is backed up by published research, you are simply making things up.
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