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Old 04-23-2013, 05:41 PM  
3rd&48ers 3rd&48ers is offline
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Welfare drug test bill passes NC Senate

Welfare drug test bill passes NC Senate


GREENSBORO, NC — Senate Bill 594, which would require applicants for North Carolina’s WorkFirst Program to take and pass a drug test before receiving benefits, passed the state Senate on Monday.
WorkFirst allows adults to get cash benefits for themselves and their children as they look for work. More than 21,000 North Carolinians use the program, and more than 1200 of those are in Guilford County.
Steve Hays, with Guilford County’s Department of Social Services, said current law requires a licensed professional to evaluate applicants. That person can ask for a drug test if he or she feels it’s necessary.
SB 594 would require the testing up front for all potential recipients, and it would require the applicants to pay for that testing. If the applicant passes, according to the bill, the state would reimburse him or her. If he or she fails, there are no benefits and no reimbursement.
A Guilford County senator proposed an amendment requiring all legislators and their staff members to take and pass drug tests, as well, but that amendment failed.
Now that the bill has passed the Senate, it must pass the House and then be signed by Governor Pat McCrory to become a law.

http://myfox8.com/2013/04/23/welfare...ses-nc-senate/
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Old 04-24-2013, 03:44 PM   #46
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What right, do any of you have, to claim another person is abusing drugs? What right does the federal government have to judge a person guilty based on economic status without any type of evidence?
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Old 04-24-2013, 03:54 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jiveturkey View Post
Agreed. It shouldn't be a "lifestyle" but a shitty bridge to get you somewhere better.

The drug testing thing seems like a waste of time and resources. It's hard to complain about government spending while pushing costly measures like this one.

Are there any numbers on how many people "voluntarily" fall off of welfare once testing starts? I'm sure that there's some savings from that type of situation along with scaring off newcomers that won't pass a test but are they enough to justify the cost of the new program?
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Old 04-24-2013, 04:01 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
So you assume, 1)poor people do drugs, 2) that they abuse their kids and 3) that placing a child under state care is perhaps better for the kid than parents (whose only drug may be weed), and that perhaps state care is cheaper than federal assistance to families?

Could you provide any evidence for believing any of those things?

/my wife works for the Green County children's division, so I should get a kick out of the reply
//Green County is the number one county in MO per in capita child abuse. I do not believe the majority of those, in this church on every street corner city, are because of drug use.
///Of course, separate kids from meth users and all that.

No not all poor people do drugs but the ones that do on Welfare are taking money away from the family while receiving taxpayer money as well as wasting the limited funds that truly needy people should get...

Oh and I am getting a kick out of all Libturd replies, not only yours.
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Old 04-24-2013, 04:12 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by R8ers View Post
No not all poor people do drugs but the ones that do on Welfare are taking money away from the family while receiving taxpayer money as well as wasting the limited funds that truly needy people should get...

Oh and I am getting a kick out of all Libturd replies, not only yours.
What evidence do you have that this is a major problem?
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Old 04-24-2013, 04:15 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
What evidence do you have that this is a major problem?
What evidence do you have it's not?
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Old 04-24-2013, 04:20 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by R8ers View Post
What evidence do you have it's not?
The fourth amendment implies the burden of proof is upon the government, not those charged. A poor person should not have to prove themselves drug free without prior evidence.
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Old 04-24-2013, 04:30 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
The fourth amendment implies the burden of proof is upon the government, not those charged. A poor person should not have to prove themselves drug free without prior evidence.
They are not forcing them to get a drug test so the constitution probably won't apply , Drug testing is voluntary, you just won't get any benefits if you don't.
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Old 04-24-2013, 04:47 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
The fourth amendment implies the burden of proof is upon the government, not those charged. A poor person should not have to prove themselves drug free without prior evidence.
I will say this if a person in in a situation where us taxpayers need to pay their way they should be very humble and willing to prove they are doing everything they can to improve their situation. The ****ing government ain't pay squat we are and people taking the money should be very thankful. From several personal cases I have seen this is not the case. I do agree that from what I have read the cost of testing out weighs the savings. However the long game may end up discouraging people from taking the easy money. This should be a last resort~
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Old 04-24-2013, 05:09 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R8ers View Post
They are not forcing them to get a drug test so the constitution probably won't apply , Drug testing is voluntary, you just won't get any benefits if you don't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RNR View Post
I will say this if a person in in a situation where us taxpayers need to pay their way they should be very humble and willing to prove they are doing everything they can to improve their situation. The ****ing government ain't pay squat we are and people taking the money should be very thankful. From several personal cases I have seen this is not the case. I do agree that from what I have read the cost of testing out weighs the savings. However the long game may end up discouraging people from taking the easy money. This should be a last resort~

The courts, so far, are disagreeing. The federal government should not be able to make anyone prove innocence. If someone is abusing drugs, then use the proper channels to correct the issues. I can supply you with hotline numbers if you want. But, by no means should we make every one prove their innocence without prior evidence.

Also, the majority of entitlement dollars go to people who are attempting to improve their situation, or the elderly and disabled.

From:http://www.cbpp.org/cms/?fa=view&id=3677

Contrary to "Entitlement Society" Rhetoric, Over Nine-Tenths of Entitlement Benefits Go to Elderly, Disabled, or Working Households

"Such beliefs are starkly at odds with the basic facts regarding social programs, the analysis finds. Federal budget and Census data show that, in 2010, 91 percentof the benefit dollars from entitlement and other mandatory programs went to the elderly (people 65 and over), the seriously disabled, and members of working households. People who are neither elderly nor disabled — and do not live in a working household — received only 9 percent of the benefits.

Moreover, the vast bulk of that 9 percent goes for medical care, unemployment insurance benefits (which individuals must have a significant work history to receive), Social Security survivor benefits for the children and spouses of deceased workers, and Social Security benefits for retirees between ages 62 and 64. Seven out of the 9 percentage points go for one of these four purposes

A small number of discretionary (i.e., non-entitlement) programs also provide substantial benefits to individuals, but the lack of full funding for some of these programs means they do not reach all eligible recipients. Indeed, in some cases — such as in low-income rental assistance programs — the vast majority of people who are eligible receive nobenefits because of program funding limits.[4] If we broaden the universe of programs examined to include the principal discretionary programs that provide benefits — low-income housing programs, the WIC nutrition program for low-income women and young children, and low-income energy assistance — the result is essentially unchanged. Some 90 percent of the benefit dollars still go to the elderly, the disabled, and working households.

...

In short, both the current reality and the trends of recent decades contrast sharply with the critics’ assumption that social programs increasingly are supporting people who can work but choose not to do so. In the 1980s and 1990s, the United States substantially reduced assistance to the jobless poor (through legislation such as the 1996 welfare law) while increasing assistance to low-income working families (such as through expansions of the Earned Income Tax Credit). The safety net became much more “work-based.” In addition, the U.S. population is aging, which raises the share of benefits going to seniors and people with disabilities."
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Old 04-24-2013, 05:15 PM   #55
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Unemployment insurance is paid by employers or a big part is and Medicare comes out of your paycheck every week same for Social Security.

You paid for the last 2 and they are not welfare programs...

Look how many people die before they even get a single check
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Old 04-24-2013, 05:19 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
The courts, so far, are disagreeing. The federal government should not be able to make anyone prove innocence. If someone is abusing drugs, then use the proper channels to correct the issues. I can supply you with hotline numbers if you want. But, by no means should we make every one prove their innocence without prior evidence.

Also, the majority of entitlement dollars go to people who are attempting to improve their situation, or the elderly and disabled.

From:http://www.cbpp.org/cms/?fa=view&id=3677

Contrary to "Entitlement Society" Rhetoric, Over Nine-Tenths of Entitlement Benefits Go to Elderly, Disabled, or Working Households

"Such beliefs are starkly at odds with the basic facts regarding social programs, the analysis finds. Federal budget and Census data show that, in 2010, 91 percentof the benefit dollars from entitlement and other mandatory programs went to the elderly (people 65 and over), the seriously disabled, and members of working households. People who are neither elderly nor disabled — and do not live in a working household — received only 9 percent of the benefits.

Moreover, the vast bulk of that 9 percent goes for medical care, unemployment insurance benefits (which individuals must have a significant work history to receive), Social Security survivor benefits for the children and spouses of deceased workers, and Social Security benefits for retirees between ages 62 and 64. Seven out of the 9 percentage points go for one of these four purposes

A small number of discretionary (i.e., non-entitlement) programs also provide substantial benefits to individuals, but the lack of full funding for some of these programs means they do not reach all eligible recipients. Indeed, in some cases — such as in low-income rental assistance programs — the vast majority of people who are eligible receive nobenefits because of program funding limits.[4] If we broaden the universe of programs examined to include the principal discretionary programs that provide benefits — low-income housing programs, the WIC nutrition program for low-income women and young children, and low-income energy assistance — the result is essentially unchanged. Some 90 percent of the benefit dollars still go to the elderly, the disabled, and working households.

...

In short, both the current reality and the trends of recent decades contrast sharply with the critics’ assumption that social programs increasingly are supporting people who can work but choose not to do so. In the 1980s and 1990s, the United States substantially reduced assistance to the jobless poor (through legislation such as the 1996 welfare law) while increasing assistance to low-income working families (such as through expansions of the Earned Income Tax Credit). The safety net became much more “work-based.” In addition, the U.S. population is aging, which raises the share of benefits going to seniors and people with disabilities."
That is good to read and I hope the vast majority are those truly in need. However as I have said I personally have witnessed an alarming amount of abuse. My I assumption is that if I by myself have seen this it is not unique or isolated~
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Old 04-24-2013, 05:36 PM   #57
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Waste Fraud and Abuse Within Specific Reconciliation Categories:

Food Stamps:

The Food Stamp Program paid out $1.9 billion in overpayments in 2009, according to GAO.An April 2012 undercover investigation by a Memphis CBS affiliate recently found food stamps being used rampantly to illegally buy non-food items including condoms.
A March 2012 investigation by a Baltimore ABC affiliate found food stamps being used in local stores to buy beer, cigarettes, and being exchanged for cash in stores.In 2011, a Los Angeles CBS station found recipients selling their food stamps on craigslist for pennies on the dollar.
In Michigan, a woman who won $700,000 in the state lottery in September 2011 was still receiving full food stamp benefits in March 2012.
According to the USDA Inspector General, two Detroit-area brothers convicted of more than $679,000 in food stamp fraud in 2002 were caught illegally buying food stamps at their store again in 2009 after they were re-admitted to the food stamp program.

A 2-year joint criminal investigation led by USDA OIG disclosed that the owner, manager, and employees of two SNAP-authorized retailers in Cincinnati exchanged SNAP benefits for firearms, cash, stolen tobacco products, narcotics, and drug paraphernalia.

According to the a USDA audit, from September 2007 to September 2009, the owner of a Brooklyn food store and her son exchanged SNAP benefits for cash in a series of trafficking transactions that amounted to $1.4 million.

The USDA OIG found in 2011 that the Food and Nutrition Service did not require states to use the management reports provided by their EBT processors. Thus, neither New Jersey nor Florida (the two states audited) was using these reports to identify potentially fraudulent activities by SNAP recipients. The audit identified over 2,600 questionable transactions using these reports, totaling over $181,700 for a 1-month period.
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Old 04-24-2013, 05:38 PM   #58
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SNAP Categorical Eligibility:

There are generally two ways to qualify for Food Stamps: 1) Meeting federal eligibility requirements, or 2) Being automatically or categorically eligible for SNAP based on being eligible for or receiving benefits from other specified low-income assistance programs.

But as GAO, CRS, and even USDA have pointed out, a household can be deemed eligible for food stamps even if they receive no other TANF funded service other than a toll-free telephone number or informational brochure.

In total, 43 jurisdictions (40 States, the District of Columbia, Guam, and the Virgin Islands) have implemented broad-based categorical eligibility. These jurisdictions generally make all households with incomes below a state-determined income threshold eligible for SNAP.

In all but three of these jurisdictions, there is no asset test required for SNAP eligibility. Categorically eligible families bypass the regular SNAP asset limits. Therefore, it is possible to be categorically eligible for SNAP but have net income too high to actually receive a benefit.

The Obama administration has encouraged States to take advantage of categorical eligibility. In a September 2009 memo they write: “We encourage you to continue promoting expanded categorical eligibility as a way to increase SNAP participation and reduce State workloads.” In most states, that means households who receive cash and non-cash benefits under Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF) are automatically eligible for SNAP. If a household is merely given a brochure funded by TANF, they will be automatically eligible for SNAP.
Another memo from the Obama administration explains: “With broad-based categorical eligibility, state agencies can effectively raise the income limit and raise or eliminate the asset test.”
In Ohio, a woman with a $300,000 home, a Mercedes, and $80,000 in savings qualified for SNAP because, under categorical eligibility, these resources are not taken into account.
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Old 04-24-2013, 06:18 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
The fourth amendment implies the burden of proof is upon the government, not those charged. A poor person should not have to prove themselves drug free without prior evidence.
The government requires drug testing for its employees. This is legal, even if it is wrongheaded.
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Old 04-24-2013, 07:58 PM   #60
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I like the idea, but unsure about how practical the cost actually is. It seems like a bad idea when looking at the big picture.

You're really just busting pot-heads. Most other drugs are out of your system in a few days. Drug tests aren't really that effective against the major drugs.
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