Home Mail MemberMap Chat (0) Wallpapers
Go Back   ChiefsPlanet > The Ed & Dave Lounge

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-06-2013, 10:02 PM  
Ace Gunner Ace Gunner is offline
First Overall
 
Ace Gunner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: kcmo
Casino cash: $5097
LT: Left behind


Left behind
In today's pass-happy NFL, the image of the left tackle is taking a beating


Since Cleveland drafted Joe Thomas in 2007, its scoring offense has ranked above 24th only once.



IN APRIL 2008, the Dolphins were so eager to make Michigan left tackle Jake Long the No. 1 pick overall and the cornerstone of their franchise that they signed him to a $57.5 million contract four days before the draft. Long more than lived up to that deal, becoming only the fourth tackle in 50 years to make the Pro Bowl in each of his first four seasons -- before a triceps injury sent him to injured reserve last December.

Yet almost five years after the '08 draft, the Dolphins let Long -- who at 27 is entering his prime -- hit the open market without even offering him his $15.4 million franchise tag salary. Long ultimately became the 11th free agent offensive tackle to sign this offseason, inking a four-year deal with the Rams that could be worth as much as $36 million. But the contract came after he lingered on the market for a week, with his old team as the only other real suitor.

So why the dramatic drop in urgency and currency for such a productive player? Actually, it's not Long who has lost so much value -- it's his position. The left tackle, once considered an essential building block for every franchise, has seen its importance erode in this era of read-option spread offenses. That's something NFL teams with high draft picks need to consider on April 25, when two left tackles, Texas A&M's Luke Joeckel and Central Michigan's Eric Fisher, are expected to be top-five picks.

Times have changed dramatically since 2006, when the Ravens' Michael Oher was the inspiration for The Blind Side. That best-selling book and eventual blockbuster movie helped mythologize the left tackle's role in protecting the quarterback's back. But in '06, the ideal QB still stood in the pocket and worked through his progressions before delivering the ball downfield. Today, QB drops are shorter, the ball comes out quicker, the passers are far more elusive and the pressure is coming from all over, not just the right defensive end. As a result, Oher doesn't even protect the blind side anymore. In Super Bowl XLVII, he started at right tackle.

Who would have ever predicted that when the Ravens made Oher their first-round pick in 2009? "If there's a great left tackle available, sure, people are still gonna take him," says Phil Savage, executive director of the Senior Bowl and former GM of the Browns. "But I absolutely think you're going to see more and more people rethink the idea of the left tackle as this top-notch, highest-paid, building block kind of player."

Savage's reversal on the position is telling. In 1996 he was the director of player personnel in Baltimore when the Ravens drafted left tackle Jonathan Ogden with the fourth pick overall. In 2007, while running the Browns' draft, Savage selected LT Joe Thomas third overall. It's hard to dispute the impact of either guy; Ogden, in fact, was just elected to the Hall of Fame. But there's no disputing this either: Of the 12 left tackles drafted in the top 10 since 2004 -- at a collective price of more than $500 million -- only three have a postseason victory, and not one has an NFL title to his credit (Ogden won a ring in 2000). And although Thomas and Long have been to 10 Pro Bowls between them, neither has won even a single playoff game.

Consider this also: In the first round of the 2007 draft, Savage bypassed Adrian Peterson, who last year had one of the greatest seasons by a running back in NFL history. To take Long in 2008, Miami passed over QB Matt Ryan, who has led the Falcons to the playoffs four times and took them to last season's NFC championship game. "I do not regret taking Jake Long," former Dolphins executive Bill Parcells told ESPN.com in April 2011. "But you always wonder if you should have taken a quarterback."

For decades, old-school thinkers like Parcells and former Colts president Bill Polian considered quarterback, left tackle and pass rusher to be the "holy trinity" of team building. Now the argument can be made that the correlation between victories and elite left tackles no longer exists. "When coaches talk about position hierarchy, left tackle isn't among the top few anymore," an AFC team exec says. "Now it's QB, pass rusher, cornerback, wide receiver. A guy like Joe Thomas shows that a great left tackle isn't nearly sufficient."

Nor is he necessary. After all, Eli Manning won two Super Bowl MVPs with former fifth-round pick and converted guard David Diehl protecting his backside. Aaron Rodgers sets up behind fifth-round pick Marshall Newhouse. And who can name Tom Brady's left tackle? How about Peyton Manning's? Considering that those two legendary QBs had the quickest releases in the league last season -- 3.03 and 3.04 seconds, compared with the league average of 3.46 -- do the names really matter? Linemen simply don't have to hold their blocks as long as they used to.

Meanwhile, to counter quick-strike passing attacks, defenses like the Giants' and Ravens' have started to take a shorter, more direct path to the quarterback by overloading pressure up the middle, which places more value on guards and centers. That's why Alabama's Chance Warmack could become just the seventh guard taken in the top 10 of the draft since 1988. And because running backs and especially tight ends are too valuable in the passing game to stay in and block -- catches by tight ends are up 16 percent since 2008 -- even the right tackle position is on the rise.

In the end, the importance of protecting the quarterback hasn't diminished; it's just that the responsibility and rewards are now more evenly distributed across all five O-linemen. "It used to be you found a great left tackle and built the rest of it from there," Savage says. "Now, because of defenses, you'd better be solid across the entire line. Instead of the super-elite left tackle, it's about five men who block well in a system. You could write a whole book about how the spread offense has impacted the NFL game."

In that book, the chapter about left tackles could be titled Blindsided.


http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/91...-espn-magazine
Posts: 10,388
Ace Gunner is too fat/Omaha.Ace Gunner is too fat/Omaha.Ace Gunner is too fat/Omaha.Ace Gunner is too fat/Omaha.Ace Gunner is too fat/Omaha.Ace Gunner is too fat/Omaha.Ace Gunner is too fat/Omaha.Ace Gunner is too fat/Omaha.Ace Gunner is too fat/Omaha.Ace Gunner is too fat/Omaha.Ace Gunner is too fat/Omaha.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2013, 12:24 AM   #31
milkman milkman is offline
Dumbass!
 
milkman's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Leading the Marty bashing
Casino cash: $6995
Quote:
Originally Posted by tk13 View Post
I agree. I think Rodgers play from the beginning of that playoff run to the end of the 15-1 regular season the next year is literally the best any QB has played the last 25 years or so, maybe longer. I said that multiple times, and I really mean that. Just unstoppable... which is why some of the comments on here about how Wilson and Kaepernick, etc, etc are HOF'ers playing better than anyone are crazy. They haven't even provided the best QB play of this decade to this point.

And why I think comparing any QB to Aaron Rodgers is a bad idea.
Comparing one player to another is not suggesting that player is the same player, or that he will ever play to the level that the player has achieved.

But you can watch a player and see similarities in their game.

It's stupid to dismiss comparisons.

I can watch Reggie Bush even today and see the valid comparison of his style to Gale Sayers.

Anyone that would suggest that comparison is even remotely suggesting their production is similar is a moron that can't draw a distinction.
__________________
Posts: 64,290
milkman is obviously part of the inner Circle.milkman is obviously part of the inner Circle.milkman is obviously part of the inner Circle.milkman is obviously part of the inner Circle.milkman is obviously part of the inner Circle.milkman is obviously part of the inner Circle.milkman is obviously part of the inner Circle.milkman is obviously part of the inner Circle.milkman is obviously part of the inner Circle.milkman is obviously part of the inner Circle.milkman is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2013, 12:47 AM   #32
Dayze Dayze is offline
Resident Glue Sniffer
 
Dayze's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Overland Park
Casino cash: $8157
**** that noise / archaic chiefs philosophy
__________________
Life is 99% inspiration, 1% Perspiration, and 1% Attention to Detial.
Posts: 25,886
Dayze is obviously part of the inner Circle.Dayze is obviously part of the inner Circle.Dayze is obviously part of the inner Circle.Dayze is obviously part of the inner Circle.Dayze is obviously part of the inner Circle.Dayze is obviously part of the inner Circle.Dayze is obviously part of the inner Circle.Dayze is obviously part of the inner Circle.Dayze is obviously part of the inner Circle.Dayze is obviously part of the inner Circle.Dayze is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2013, 06:57 AM   #33
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
Black for Palestine
 
Direckshun's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Springpatch
Casino cash: $7312
Excellent piece.

I still disagree, however.
__________________
Posts: 44,232
Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2013, 07:13 AM   #34
Mr_Tomahawk Mr_Tomahawk is offline
Prestige Worldwide
 
Mr_Tomahawk's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Spring Hill, KS
Casino cash: $6475
Eh, we are still taking a LT #1 overall...
__________________
Adopt-A-Chief: Tyler Bray
Posts: 14,270
Mr_Tomahawk has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.Mr_Tomahawk has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.Mr_Tomahawk has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.Mr_Tomahawk has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.Mr_Tomahawk has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.Mr_Tomahawk has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.Mr_Tomahawk has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.Mr_Tomahawk has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.Mr_Tomahawk has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.Mr_Tomahawk has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.Mr_Tomahawk has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2013, 07:15 AM   #35
theelusiveeightrop theelusiveeightrop is online now
Spiraling down the Drain
 
theelusiveeightrop's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Dante's Ninth Circle
Casino cash: $8153
Lawrence Taylor wasn't raptured out? Shocking.
__________________
"We're both part of the same hypocrisy, Senator, but never think it applies to my family."

2014 Adopt a Chief - Travis Kelce #87
Posts: 19,940
theelusiveeightrop is obviously part of the inner Circle.theelusiveeightrop is obviously part of the inner Circle.theelusiveeightrop is obviously part of the inner Circle.theelusiveeightrop is obviously part of the inner Circle.theelusiveeightrop is obviously part of the inner Circle.theelusiveeightrop is obviously part of the inner Circle.theelusiveeightrop is obviously part of the inner Circle.theelusiveeightrop is obviously part of the inner Circle.theelusiveeightrop is obviously part of the inner Circle.theelusiveeightrop is obviously part of the inner Circle.theelusiveeightrop is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2013, 07:17 AM   #36
Ace Gunner Ace Gunner is offline
First Overall
 
Ace Gunner's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: kcmo
Casino cash: $5097
Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
Excellent piece.

I still disagree, however.
explain please.
__________________
The Greatest
Posts: 10,388
Ace Gunner is too fat/Omaha.Ace Gunner is too fat/Omaha.Ace Gunner is too fat/Omaha.Ace Gunner is too fat/Omaha.Ace Gunner is too fat/Omaha.Ace Gunner is too fat/Omaha.Ace Gunner is too fat/Omaha.Ace Gunner is too fat/Omaha.Ace Gunner is too fat/Omaha.Ace Gunner is too fat/Omaha.Ace Gunner is too fat/Omaha.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2013, 07:20 AM   #37
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
Black for Palestine
 
Direckshun's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Springpatch
Casino cash: $7312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzz_TinBalls View Post
explain please.
You have to be able to counter whatever a defense brings, and the best defenses always have a guy of amazing athleticism and strength, that demands you need to be able to neutralize that power.

I'm of the opinion and the tackle positions are incredibly important. I think the Chiefs should have kept both Albert and Winston.
__________________
Posts: 44,232
Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2013, 07:21 AM   #38
theelusiveeightrop theelusiveeightrop is online now
Spiraling down the Drain
 
theelusiveeightrop's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Dante's Ninth Circle
Casino cash: $8153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
You have to be able to counter whatever a defense brings, and the best defenses always have a guy of amazing athleticism and strength, that demands you need to be able to neutralize that power.

I'm of the opinion and the tackle positions are incredibly important. I think the Chiefs should have kept both Albert and Winston.
Truer words were never spoken.
__________________
"We're both part of the same hypocrisy, Senator, but never think it applies to my family."

2014 Adopt a Chief - Travis Kelce #87
Posts: 19,940
theelusiveeightrop is obviously part of the inner Circle.theelusiveeightrop is obviously part of the inner Circle.theelusiveeightrop is obviously part of the inner Circle.theelusiveeightrop is obviously part of the inner Circle.theelusiveeightrop is obviously part of the inner Circle.theelusiveeightrop is obviously part of the inner Circle.theelusiveeightrop is obviously part of the inner Circle.theelusiveeightrop is obviously part of the inner Circle.theelusiveeightrop is obviously part of the inner Circle.theelusiveeightrop is obviously part of the inner Circle.theelusiveeightrop is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2013, 07:24 AM   #39
AdumbGuy AdumbGuy is offline
Starter
 
AdumbGuy's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Dominica, no seriously.
Casino cash: $5000
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiefMojo View Post
Doesn't mean squat for Geno in our situation, it means that Dion Jordan could be the guy.
clearly just means we're going to be yelling out CHANCE every play next year.

Way to interior block there, you chance warmack beast you!

You just got chanced, Broncos! /goddamned asshole mayock.
__________________
We threw for 8 TDs in 2012, so we got a guy that once threw 18tds! IN ONE SEASON! That's like 10 times as many! - Dante Hall's Mullet
Posts: 559
AdumbGuy must have mowed badgirl's lawn.AdumbGuy must have mowed badgirl's lawn.AdumbGuy must have mowed badgirl's lawn.AdumbGuy must have mowed badgirl's lawn.AdumbGuy must have mowed badgirl's lawn.AdumbGuy must have mowed badgirl's lawn.AdumbGuy must have mowed badgirl's lawn.AdumbGuy must have mowed badgirl's lawn.AdumbGuy must have mowed badgirl's lawn.AdumbGuy must have mowed badgirl's lawn.AdumbGuy must have mowed badgirl's lawn.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2013, 07:25 AM   #40
LoneWolf LoneWolf is offline
BAMF
 
LoneWolf's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Wichita
Casino cash: $6636
Both Super Bowl teams had 1st round starting LTs. Manning had a first round LT. The Patriots have a 2nd round and 1st rounder as their starting tackles. Seattle has Okung at tackle.

I'm not advocating taking Joeckel or Fisher, but this article while having some good points isn't being completely honest. Using Long and Thomas as examples is deceiving. They both have never had a good or even average QB playing behind them. And then using Matt Ryan as the example of a QB being successful in the playoffs without an upper echelon LT is hilarious. The one playoff win Matt Ryan whose team has repeatedly been upset in the playoffs?! Typical ESPN lazy reporting.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiefs Pantalones View Post
If we win 8 games I'll post a nude selfie.
Posts: 5,309
LoneWolf has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.LoneWolf has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.LoneWolf has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.LoneWolf has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.LoneWolf has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.LoneWolf has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.LoneWolf has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.LoneWolf has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.LoneWolf has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.LoneWolf has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.LoneWolf has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2013, 07:27 AM   #41
Ace Gunner Ace Gunner is offline
First Overall
 
Ace Gunner's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: kcmo
Casino cash: $5097
Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
You have to be able to counter whatever a defense brings, and the best defenses always have a guy of amazing athleticism and strength, that demands you need to be able to neutralize that power.

I'm of the opinion and the tackle positions are incredibly important. I think the Chiefs should have kept both Albert and Winston.
I do also, but I don't think either player has the talent of Joeckel/Fisher and I am in the group saying LT is no longer an elite position for NFL teams.

Albert has a lot of technique to learn and I believe he can learn to become a solid LT, but he burned bridges imo.

So, moving forward, I would look at Kyle Long, Dave Quessenberry or Jordan Mills -- guys that might be available in the top of the 3rd rnd and go ahead and invest in Geno Smith up top for the future.
__________________
The Greatest
Posts: 10,388
Ace Gunner is too fat/Omaha.Ace Gunner is too fat/Omaha.Ace Gunner is too fat/Omaha.Ace Gunner is too fat/Omaha.Ace Gunner is too fat/Omaha.Ace Gunner is too fat/Omaha.Ace Gunner is too fat/Omaha.Ace Gunner is too fat/Omaha.Ace Gunner is too fat/Omaha.Ace Gunner is too fat/Omaha.Ace Gunner is too fat/Omaha.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2013, 07:30 AM   #42
Ace Gunner Ace Gunner is offline
First Overall
 
Ace Gunner's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: kcmo
Casino cash: $5097
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoneWolf View Post
Both Super Bowl teams had 1st round starting LTs. Manning had a first round LT. The Patriots have a 2nd round and 1st rounder as their starting tackles. Seattle has Okung at tackle.

I'm not advocating taking Joeckel or Fisher, but this article while having some good points isn't being completely honest. Using Long and Thomas as examples is deceiving. They both have never had a good or even average QB playing behind them. And then using Matt Ryan as the example of a QB being successful in the playoffs without an upper echelon LT is hilarious. The one playoff win Matt Ryan whose team has repeatedly been upset in the playoffs?! Typical ESPN lazy reporting.
ATL LT Clabo is FA, maybe they can sign him. I just think this article further explains what is happening to the NFL in terms of positional impact.
__________________
The Greatest
Posts: 10,388
Ace Gunner is too fat/Omaha.Ace Gunner is too fat/Omaha.Ace Gunner is too fat/Omaha.Ace Gunner is too fat/Omaha.Ace Gunner is too fat/Omaha.Ace Gunner is too fat/Omaha.Ace Gunner is too fat/Omaha.Ace Gunner is too fat/Omaha.Ace Gunner is too fat/Omaha.Ace Gunner is too fat/Omaha.Ace Gunner is too fat/Omaha.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2013, 07:50 AM   #43
Dave Lane Dave Lane is offline
Space Cadet and Aczabel
 
Dave Lane's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Kansas City, Mo, USA
Casino cash: $8050
VARSITY
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deberg_1990 View Post
A lot of us have always said a B QB is greater than an A LT any day.
No shit the days of a game manager QB are.... Oh wait....
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris616 View Post
High Tech is Sorcery and the people who are really powerful are literally telling people to commit crimes using the psychic interspace created by the WWW and Wireless. They are controlling peoples actions like drones . The two things are deeply intertwined. The more man's brain interfaces with machines the creepier it gets. They use brains separate from a human body in a supercomputer and you have The Image of the Beast. The military has been doing this since the 50s
Posts: 24,372
Dave Lane is obviously part of the inner Circle.Dave Lane is obviously part of the inner Circle.Dave Lane is obviously part of the inner Circle.Dave Lane is obviously part of the inner Circle.Dave Lane is obviously part of the inner Circle.Dave Lane is obviously part of the inner Circle.Dave Lane is obviously part of the inner Circle.Dave Lane is obviously part of the inner Circle.Dave Lane is obviously part of the inner Circle.Dave Lane is obviously part of the inner Circle.Dave Lane is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2013, 07:52 AM   #44
OrtonsPiercedTaint OrtonsPiercedTaint is offline
Veteran
 
OrtonsPiercedTaint's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2012
Casino cash: $5000
The Chiefs are finally in a postion to draft a franchise left tackle. Only to have the game evlove the postion to neanderthal footing. ****ing Chiefs' luck.
Posts: 3,543
OrtonsPiercedTaint Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.OrtonsPiercedTaint Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.OrtonsPiercedTaint Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.OrtonsPiercedTaint Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.OrtonsPiercedTaint Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.OrtonsPiercedTaint Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.OrtonsPiercedTaint Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.OrtonsPiercedTaint Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.OrtonsPiercedTaint Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.OrtonsPiercedTaint Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.OrtonsPiercedTaint Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2013, 07:52 AM   #45
Dave Lane Dave Lane is offline
Space Cadet and Aczabel
 
Dave Lane's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Kansas City, Mo, USA
Casino cash: $8050
VARSITY
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoneWolf View Post
Both Super Bowl teams had 1st round starting LTs. Manning had a first round LT. The Patriots have a 2nd round and 1st rounder as their starting tackles. Seattle has Okung at tackle.

I'm not advocating taking Joeckel or Fisher, but this article while having some good points isn't being completely honest. Using Long and Thomas as examples is deceiving. They both have never had a good or even average QB playing behind them. And then using Matt Ryan as the example of a QB being successful in the playoffs without an upper echelon LT is hilarious. The one playoff win Matt Ryan whose team has repeatedly been upset in the playoffs?! Typical ESPN lazy reporting.
I think the point is an illustration that a left tackle by themselves will not take your team to the playoffs. You need the quarterback, then if you have a left tackle that is good he can make a difference.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris616 View Post
High Tech is Sorcery and the people who are really powerful are literally telling people to commit crimes using the psychic interspace created by the WWW and Wireless. They are controlling peoples actions like drones . The two things are deeply intertwined. The more man's brain interfaces with machines the creepier it gets. They use brains separate from a human body in a supercomputer and you have The Image of the Beast. The military has been doing this since the 50s

Last edited by Dave Lane; 04-07-2013 at 09:38 AM..
Posts: 24,372
Dave Lane is obviously part of the inner Circle.Dave Lane is obviously part of the inner Circle.Dave Lane is obviously part of the inner Circle.Dave Lane is obviously part of the inner Circle.Dave Lane is obviously part of the inner Circle.Dave Lane is obviously part of the inner Circle.Dave Lane is obviously part of the inner Circle.Dave Lane is obviously part of the inner Circle.Dave Lane is obviously part of the inner Circle.Dave Lane is obviously part of the inner Circle.Dave Lane is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:52 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.