Home Mail MemberMap Chat (0) Wallpapers
Go Back   ChiefsPlanet > The Ed & Dave Lounge > D.C.

View Poll Results: Should we have invaded Iraq on 3/19/03?
Yes 16 15.53%
No 84 81.55%
Too close to call at this point. Leave it to Gaz. Also, I'm a wishy-washy fop of a human being. 3 2.91%
Voters: 103. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-19-2013, 06:56 AM  
Amnorix Amnorix is offline
In BB I trust
 
Amnorix's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Boston, Mass.
Casino cash: $5330
Invasion of Iraq 10 years later: Good move or mistake

10 years ago today the US invaded Iraq to overthrow the regime of Saddam Hussein. The after-effects of that decision are still being felt to this day, and obviously will continue to play out in the years and decades to come. At this milestone, however, knowing everything that you know now, should we have gone in, or not?

Regrets and hypotheticals aren't really the goal here. We could go on and on (and have, many times) about how the post-invasion situation was handled, etc. ad infinitum. You should vote simply on the facts as they have actually occurred over the last 10 years.

Poll forthcoming. Note that it will be a public poll.
Posts: 33,047
Amnorix has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.Amnorix has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.Amnorix has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.Amnorix has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.Amnorix has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.Amnorix has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.Amnorix has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.Amnorix has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.Amnorix has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.Amnorix has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.Amnorix has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2013, 01:17 PM   #256
mcan mcan is offline
Apr 13,1949 Dec 15, 2011
 
mcan's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Kansas City, MO
Casino cash: $5035
I don't think it's purely an expected value calculation. If it were, then no war would ever be "worth it."


That said, I think getting rid of Saddam was a legally and morally acceptable action. It's a shame that it has gone so poorly. But it needed to be done. I wish the world community would do a better job of ridding the planet of other horrible regimes.

It's a responsibility that is easily shirked, and I'm glad war isn't "popular." But I do think the world is a better place now.
Posts: 3,705
mcan has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.mcan has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.mcan has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.mcan has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.mcan has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.mcan has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.mcan has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.mcan has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.mcan has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.mcan has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.mcan has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2013, 01:27 PM   #257
Mr. Kotter Mr. Kotter is offline
Lookin' for the answers...
 
Mr. Kotter's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Somewhere else
Casino cash: $299
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amnorix View Post
Chiefforlife is correct. I very specifically said that people should be voting based on what we know NOW. Hell, it's implicit in the name of the thread.,.
Sorry, I just skimmed it. My point, then, becomes...what's the friggin' point? Seriously?

Hypotheticals such as this, taken out of the context to the era....second-guessing people who didn't KNOW what we now know, is merely mental masturbation IMHO. NTTAWWT, I suppose.

To me though, there really is no point other than to try, with the benefit of hindsight, to pat yourself on the back, OR to tear down those with whom you disagree. Either way, silly IMO.
__________________
Alex Smith will be better than Geno or Cassel, Alex Smith will be better than Geno or Cassel, Alex Smith will be better than Geno or Cassel, Alex Smith will be better than Geno or Cassel...
Posts: 39,999
Mr. Kotter has disabled reputation
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2013, 01:27 PM   #258
Comrade Crapski Comrade Crapski is offline
Banned
 

Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Sea of Green 23.4
Casino cash: $5000
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcan View Post
I don't think it's purely an expected value calculation. If it were, then no war would ever be "worth it."


That said, I think getting rid of Saddam was a legally and morally acceptable action. It's a shame that it has gone so poorly. But it needed to be done. I wish the world community would do a better job of ridding the planet of other horrible regimes.

It's a responsibility that is easily shirked, and I'm glad war isn't "popular." But I do think the world is a better place now.
Good analysis.

IMO, prior to 2001 the general consensus in the west was that Arabs needed dictators, that without the iron fist, there would be chaos in the middle east. As bad as the dictators are, left to their own devices, the people replace them with something much worse, or at least no better.

After 2001, eggheads in washington decided it would be a good idea to give arabs free and open elections.

I think that time has clearly demonstrated that arabs need dictators, not just in Iraq, but in Egypt and Libya etc.
Posts: 3,833
Comrade Crapski is too fat/Omaha.Comrade Crapski is too fat/Omaha.Comrade Crapski is too fat/Omaha.Comrade Crapski is too fat/Omaha.Comrade Crapski is too fat/Omaha.Comrade Crapski is too fat/Omaha.Comrade Crapski is too fat/Omaha.Comrade Crapski is too fat/Omaha.Comrade Crapski is too fat/Omaha.Comrade Crapski is too fat/Omaha.Comrade Crapski is too fat/Omaha.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2013, 03:50 PM   #259
Loneiguana Loneiguana is offline
Veteran
 
Loneiguana's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Springfield
Casino cash: $5330
Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
Do I have a response to what? What's the point that you think you've provided evidence for? And I'm talking about post 61 which is what I was responding to prior to your "cost of the war" change of subject. Let's deal with one thing at a time.

In case you've forgotten it, post 61 consisted of a misleading quote, a link to a document, and a cartoon. Your own intellectual contribution to the post was limited to deceptively describing the document as "House investigation 2004" when what it really was was a purely partisan hack job from Henry Waxman and democrat staffers. The same Henry Waxman that two years earlier had said:



So, what is it you think you proved with that deceptively labeled document?
And again you have yet to address any of the actually information in any of the posts. I have provided multiple sources.

I honestly just think you are lazy.

Can you prove without a shadow of a doubt that that the American public was not sold faulty, if not outright lies, about intelligence?
Posts: 3,798
Loneiguana would the whole thing.Loneiguana would the whole thing.Loneiguana would the whole thing.Loneiguana would the whole thing.Loneiguana would the whole thing.Loneiguana would the whole thing.Loneiguana would the whole thing.Loneiguana would the whole thing.Loneiguana would the whole thing.Loneiguana would the whole thing.Loneiguana would the whole thing.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2013, 03:53 PM   #260
Loneiguana Loneiguana is offline
Veteran
 
Loneiguana's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Springfield
Casino cash: $5330
Quote:
Originally Posted by KC native View Post
And he does this with everyone. Comes in lobbing insults and then when a poster fights back he attempts to play the victim card.

Also, bear in mind this dipshit didn't even join the military until after 40 and only did so because he couldn't hold down a regular job.
Its a standard tactic for conservatives when they are outside of their media bubble. Instead of addressing points and counter points, they look to deflect, distract, and outright threadshit in order to stop the conversation from being productive. He doesn't have a point, he just wants to root for his side.
Posts: 3,798
Loneiguana would the whole thing.Loneiguana would the whole thing.Loneiguana would the whole thing.Loneiguana would the whole thing.Loneiguana would the whole thing.Loneiguana would the whole thing.Loneiguana would the whole thing.Loneiguana would the whole thing.Loneiguana would the whole thing.Loneiguana would the whole thing.Loneiguana would the whole thing.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2013, 03:56 PM   #261
LiveSteam LiveSteam is offline
All aboard the crazy train
 
LiveSteam's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: homeof43conferencetitles
Casino cash: $5585
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
Its a standard tactic for conservatives when they are outside of their media bubble. Instead of addressing points and counter points, they look to deflect, distract, and outright threadshit in order to stop the conversation from being productive. He doesn't have a point, he just wants to root for his side.
I agree pillowbiterot
Posts: 16,820
LiveSteam is obviously part of the inner Circle.LiveSteam is obviously part of the inner Circle.LiveSteam is obviously part of the inner Circle.LiveSteam is obviously part of the inner Circle.LiveSteam is obviously part of the inner Circle.LiveSteam is obviously part of the inner Circle.LiveSteam is obviously part of the inner Circle.LiveSteam is obviously part of the inner Circle.LiveSteam is obviously part of the inner Circle.LiveSteam is obviously part of the inner Circle.LiveSteam is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2013, 04:34 PM   #262
Comrade Crapski Comrade Crapski is offline
Banned
 

Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Sea of Green 23.4
Casino cash: $5000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
Its a standard tactic for conservatives when they are outside of their media bubble. Instead of addressing points and counter points, they look to deflect, distract, and outright threadshit in order to stop the conversation from being productive. He doesn't have a point, he just wants to root for his side.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KC native View Post
And he does this with everyone. Comes in lobbing insults and then when a poster fights back he attempts to play the victim card.

Also, bear in mind this dipshit didn't even join the military until after 40 and only did so because he couldn't hold down a regular job.
Quote:
Originally Posted by penchief View Post
Assumptions? Good grief, man. You've given us all enough material to make educated observations about your behavior. You are clearly a moron and a punk.
Cluck! Cluck! Cluck!

Posts: 3,833
Comrade Crapski is too fat/Omaha.Comrade Crapski is too fat/Omaha.Comrade Crapski is too fat/Omaha.Comrade Crapski is too fat/Omaha.Comrade Crapski is too fat/Omaha.Comrade Crapski is too fat/Omaha.Comrade Crapski is too fat/Omaha.Comrade Crapski is too fat/Omaha.Comrade Crapski is too fat/Omaha.Comrade Crapski is too fat/Omaha.Comrade Crapski is too fat/Omaha.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2013, 06:24 PM   #263
patteeu patteeu is offline
The 23rd Pillar
 
patteeu's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2002
Casino cash: $5000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amnorix View Post
First, I don't think even Cheney supported a war of conquest. Maybe he would have if he could've gotten away with it, but that's another story.
LOL, and maybe Barack Obama would enslave us all and execute all the capitalists if he could get away with it, but that too is another story.
__________________


"I'll see you guys in New York." ISIS Caliph Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi to US military personnel upon his release from US custody at Camp Bucca in Iraq during Obama's first year in office.
Posts: 75,744
patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2013, 07:18 PM   #264
RedNeckRaider RedNeckRaider is offline
Got highway?
 
RedNeckRaider's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Close to the big pond~
Casino cash: $5430
Quote:
Originally Posted by KC native View Post
And he does this with everyone. Comes in lobbing insults and then when a poster fights back he attempts to play the victim card.

Also, bear in mind this dipshit didn't even join the military until after 40 and only did so because he couldn't hold down a regular job.
Just curious what age did you join?
__________________

"If its true that our species is alone in the universe, then Id have to say that the universe aimed rather low and settled for very little"
George Carlin~
Posts: 24,048
RedNeckRaider is obviously part of the inner Circle.RedNeckRaider is obviously part of the inner Circle.RedNeckRaider is obviously part of the inner Circle.RedNeckRaider is obviously part of the inner Circle.RedNeckRaider is obviously part of the inner Circle.RedNeckRaider is obviously part of the inner Circle.RedNeckRaider is obviously part of the inner Circle.RedNeckRaider is obviously part of the inner Circle.RedNeckRaider is obviously part of the inner Circle.RedNeckRaider is obviously part of the inner Circle.RedNeckRaider is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2013, 09:05 PM   #265
go bowe go bowe is offline
bye bye bo...
 
go bowe's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: independence
Casino cash: $5197
Quote:
Originally Posted by RNR View Post
Just curious what age did you join?
i was 18 and stupid...
Posts: 30,005
go bowe 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.go bowe 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.go bowe 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.go bowe 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.go bowe 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.go bowe 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.go bowe 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.go bowe 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.go bowe 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.go bowe 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.go bowe 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2013, 10:40 PM   #266
chiefforlife chiefforlife is offline
Colorado Chief Fan
 
chiefforlife's Avatar
 

Join Date: Feb 2006
Casino cash: $5265
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Kotter View Post
Sorry, I just skimmed it. My point, then, becomes...what's the friggin' point? Seriously?

Hypotheticals such as this, taken out of the context to the era....second-guessing people who didn't KNOW what we now know, is merely mental masturbation IMHO. NTTAWWT, I suppose.

To me though, there really is no point other than to try, with the benefit of hindsight, to pat yourself on the back, OR to tear down those with whom you disagree. Either way, silly IMO.
I dont think it is meant to belittle anyone. Its a simple question, knowing what we know now, was Iraq a good idea or a mistake?

I for one, was all for it at the time. Given the info we were, it seemed right, I wasnt sure that Iraq was behind the attack but I was willing to believe that they could be and people in the know, said they were. I was gung ho, make them pay!

Do I feel stupid now for buying into that, sure.

If you ask me now, was it a mistake, I would be even dumber to say, no.
Posts: 2,553
chiefforlife has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.chiefforlife has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.chiefforlife has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.chiefforlife has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.chiefforlife has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.chiefforlife has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.chiefforlife has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.chiefforlife has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.chiefforlife has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.chiefforlife has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.chiefforlife has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2013, 06:35 AM   #267
Comrade Crapski Comrade Crapski is offline
Banned
 

Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Sea of Green 23.4
Casino cash: $5000
Quote:
Originally Posted by chiefforlife View Post
I dont think it is meant to belittle anyone. Its a simple question, knowing what we know now, was Iraq a good idea or a mistake?

I for one, was all for it at the time. Given the info we were, it seemed right, I wasnt sure that Iraq was behind the attack but I was willing to believe that they could be and people in the know, said they were. I was gung ho, make them pay!

Do I feel stupid now for buying into that, sure.

If you ask me now, was it a mistake, I would be even dumber to say, no.
Taking out Hussein (sadaam not barry) was the result of Hussein failing to live up to UN resolutions he agreed to in 1991. The damage and destruction of the Kuwait oil fields and the environmental damage he caused he was never made accountable for that. He also drained Iraq wetlands (which are being restored) and slaughtered thousands in the north with poison gas. This was all on the UN's watch.
Posts: 3,833
Comrade Crapski is too fat/Omaha.Comrade Crapski is too fat/Omaha.Comrade Crapski is too fat/Omaha.Comrade Crapski is too fat/Omaha.Comrade Crapski is too fat/Omaha.Comrade Crapski is too fat/Omaha.Comrade Crapski is too fat/Omaha.Comrade Crapski is too fat/Omaha.Comrade Crapski is too fat/Omaha.Comrade Crapski is too fat/Omaha.Comrade Crapski is too fat/Omaha.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2013, 08:49 AM   #268
Loneiguana Loneiguana is offline
Veteran
 
Loneiguana's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Springfield
Casino cash: $5330
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/...esters/274230/

Behold the Hatred, Resentment, and Mockery Aimed at Anti-Iraq War Protester

"Reflecting on the apologetic Iraq War retrospectives many writers have published in recent days, Freddie deBoer observes that "one of the most obvious and salient aspects of the run up to the war" is being ignored: "the incredible power of personal resentment against antiwar people, or what antiwar people were perceived to be." As he remembers it, "the visceral hatred of those opposing the war, and particularly the activists, was impossible to miss. It wasn't opposition. It wasn't disagreement. It was pure, irrational hatred, frequently devolving into accusations of antiwar activists being effectively part of the enemy." Now, he says, it is all but forgotten.

Is he exaggerating?

Judge for yourself. And may the quotes I've assembled serve as a caution: All this is what was said about the people who protested a war that a majority of Americans now regard as a tragic mistake, that began on false pretenses, and that proved far more costly than any advocates anticipated. Keep in mind as you read that tens of millions of people in dozens of countries protested against the impending invasion of Iraq over a period lasting several years. To be sure, some behaved in ways that justified criticism. But none could discredit the cause generally, and any reductive description of "what anti-war protesters are like" is self-evidently nonsense."




/not much has changed in 10 years
Posts: 3,798
Loneiguana would the whole thing.Loneiguana would the whole thing.Loneiguana would the whole thing.Loneiguana would the whole thing.Loneiguana would the whole thing.Loneiguana would the whole thing.Loneiguana would the whole thing.Loneiguana would the whole thing.Loneiguana would the whole thing.Loneiguana would the whole thing.Loneiguana would the whole thing.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2013, 08:56 AM   #269
Comrade Crapski Comrade Crapski is offline
Banned
 

Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Sea of Green 23.4
Casino cash: $5000
Posts: 3,833
Comrade Crapski is too fat/Omaha.Comrade Crapski is too fat/Omaha.Comrade Crapski is too fat/Omaha.Comrade Crapski is too fat/Omaha.Comrade Crapski is too fat/Omaha.Comrade Crapski is too fat/Omaha.Comrade Crapski is too fat/Omaha.Comrade Crapski is too fat/Omaha.Comrade Crapski is too fat/Omaha.Comrade Crapski is too fat/Omaha.Comrade Crapski is too fat/Omaha.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2013, 08:58 AM   #270
Loneiguana Loneiguana is offline
Veteran
 
Loneiguana's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Springfield
Casino cash: $5330
I don't think anyone can read this article and not get mad:

http://www.alternet.org/story/60950/...eers_have_gone


The Rip-off in Iraq: You Will Not Believe How Low the War Profiteers Have Gone
In Iraq, private contractors are guaranteed huge profits no matter how badly they **** things up.

August 29, 2007

How is it done? How do you screw the taxpayer for millions, get away with it and then ride off into the sunset with one middle finger extended, the other wrapped around a chilled martini? Ask Earnest O. Robbins -- he knows all about being a successful contractor in Iraq.

You start off as a well-connected bureaucrat: in this case, as an Air Force civil engineer, a post from which Robbins was responsible for overseeing 70,000 servicemen and contractors, with an annual budget of $8 billion. You serve with distinction for thirty-four years, becoming such a military all-star that the Air Force frequently sends you to the Hill to testify before Congress -- until one day in the summer of 2003, when you retire to take a job as an executive for Parsons, a private construction company looking to do work in Iraq.

Now you can finally move out of your dull government housing on Bolling Air Force Base and get your wife that dream home you've been promising her all these years. The place on Park Street in Dunn Loring, Virginia, looks pretty good -- four bedrooms, fireplace, garage, 2,900 square feet, a nice starter home in a high-end neighborhood full of spooks, think-tankers and ex-apparatchiks moved on to the nest-egg phase of their faceless careers. On October 20th, 2003, you close the deal for $775,000 and start living that private-sector good life.

A few months later, in March 2004, your company magically wins a contract from the Coalition Provisional Authority in Iraq to design and build the Baghdad Police College, a facility that's supposed to house and train at least 4,000 police recruits. But two years and $72 million later, you deliver not a functioning police academy but one of the great engineering cluster****s of all time, a practically useless pile of rubble so badly constructed that its walls and ceilings are literally caked in shit and piss, a result of subpar plumbing in the upper floors.

You've done such a terrible job, in fact, that when auditors from the Special Inspector General for Iraq Reconstruction visit the college in the summer of 2006, their report sounds like something out of one of the Saw movies: "We witnessed a light fixture so full of diluted urine and feces that it would not operate," they write, adding that "the urine was so pervasive that it had permanently stained the ceiling tiles" and that "during our visit, a substance dripped from the ceiling onto an assessment team member's shirt." The final report helpfully includes a photo of a sloppy brown splotch on the outstretched arm of the unlucky auditor.

When Congress gets wind of the fiasco, a few members on the House Oversight Committee demand a hearing. To placate them, your company decides to send you to the Hill -- after all, you're a former Air Force major general who used to oversee this kind of contracting operation for the government. So you take your twenty-minute ride in from the suburbs, sit down before the learned gentlemen of the committee and promptly get asked by an irritatingly eager Maryland congressman named Chris Van Hollen how you managed to spend $72 million on a pile of shit.

You blink. **** if you know. "I have some conjecture, but that's all it would be" is your deadpan answer.

The room twitters in amazement. It's hard not to applaud the balls of a man who walks into Congress short $72 million in taxpayer money and offers to guess where it all might have gone.

Next thing you know, the congressman is asking you about your company's compensation. Touchy subject -- you've got a "cost-plus" contract, which means you're guaranteed a base-line profit of three percent of your total costs on the deal. The more you spend, the more you make -- and you certainly spent a hell of a lot. But before this milk-faced congressman can even think about suggesting that you give these millions back, you've got to cut him off. "So you won't voluntarily look at this," Van Hollen is mumbling, "and say, given what has happened in this project … "

"No, sir, I will not," you snap.

"… 'We will return the profits.' …"

"No, sir, I will not," you repeat.

Your testimony over, you wait out the rest of the hearing, go home, take a bath in one of your four bathrooms, jump into bed with the little woman… . A year later, Iraq is still in flames, and your president's administration is safely focused on reclaiming $485 million in aid money from a bunch of toothless black survivors of Hurricane Katrina. But the house you bought for $775K is now assessed at $929,974, and you're sure as hell not giving it back to anyone.

"Yeah, I don't know what I expected him to say," Van Hollen says now about the way Robbins responded to being asked to give the money back. "It just shows the contempt they have for us, for the taxpayer, for everything."

Operation Iraqi Freedom, it turns out, was never a war against Saddam Hussein's Iraq. It was an invasion of the federal budget, and no occupying force in history has ever been this efficient. George W. Bush's war in the Mesopotamian desert was an experiment of sorts, a crude first take at his vision of a fully privatized American government. In Iraq the lines between essential government services and for-profit enterprises have been blurred to the point of absurdity -- to the point where wounded soldiers have to pay retail prices for fresh underwear, where modern-day chattel are imported from the Third World at slave wages to peel the potatoes we once assigned to grunts in KP, where private companies are guaranteed huge profits no matter how badly they **** things up."

/The article is very long, I didn't post all of it
Posts: 3,798
Loneiguana would the whole thing.Loneiguana would the whole thing.Loneiguana would the whole thing.Loneiguana would the whole thing.Loneiguana would the whole thing.Loneiguana would the whole thing.Loneiguana would the whole thing.Loneiguana would the whole thing.Loneiguana would the whole thing.Loneiguana would the whole thing.Loneiguana would the whole thing.
  Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:05 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.