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Old 02-12-2013, 07:16 PM  
Count Zarth Count Zarth is online now
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Obama wants to raise minimum wage to NINE DOLLARS AN HOUR



@RyanLizza: Obama will call for raising the federal minimum wage to $9.00/hour.
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Old 02-13-2013, 11:30 PM   #256
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The common American worker is grievously underpaid for the amount of hours they put in and their productivity compared to past generations. Workers are more productive than ever, but make less when adjusted for inflation than any point in the last 40 years...
I reject the idea that workers are ever paid less than they are worth. If workers have agreed to work at whatever rate they are paid, that's exactly what they are worth. Not a penny more, not a penny less. When pay isn't high enough, employers simply won't be able to find workers who are willing to trade their time for the money they're being offered.

Comparisons to past generations of workers may be interesting to those who long for the good old days or some such bullshit, but such comparisons are worthless in determining what a worker should be paid to show up for work tomorrow morning.
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Old 02-13-2013, 11:36 PM   #257
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Originally Posted by ClevelandBronco View Post
I reject the idea that workers are ever paid less than they are worth. If workers have agreed to work at whatever rate they are paid, that's exactly what they are worth. Not a penny more, not a penny less. When pay isn't high enough, employers simply won't be able to find workers who are willing to trade their time for the money they're being offered.
That theory would work a lot better if there were more jobs than there are workers.
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Old 02-14-2013, 06:08 AM   #258
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Originally Posted by ClevelandBronco View Post
I reject the idea that workers are ever paid less than they are worth. If workers have agreed to work at whatever rate they are paid, that's exactly what they are worth. Not a penny more, not a penny less. When pay isn't high enough, employers simply won't be able to find workers who are willing to trade their time for the money they're being offered.

Comparisons to past generations of workers may be interesting to those who long for the good old days or some such bullshit, but such comparisons are worthless in determining what a worker should be paid to show up for work tomorrow morning.

You are partially right. I would rather worker negotiate for better wages. The best way for a worker to increase their pay is through a union.

How it should work: I am selling myself to a employer, I am the seller. I get to set the price for my time and skills (that doesn't happen now. Go and tell Walmart what pay you will accept and watch how they laugh at you). If I feel my voice is too little for a international company to be bothered by, I can use my first amendment right to assemble with my other workers to use our first amendment right of free speech to discuss and vote on a contract that will represent our(the workers) best interest. If my life style expenses cannot be paid by a current wage, why wouldn't I raise the price I sell my time and skill(wage)?

How it works now: You apply. They tell you what you will make. You either take it or leave it.

Which is fine if you, if you aren't a low skilled uneducated worker. But that worker will always be low skilled and low educated if that worker never receives a pay that can provide the worker with means to better themselves. Minimum wage doesn't pay enough to go to a Community school if you can't even feed yourself on it.

The middle class needs more money. Pay needs to go up. We fix the problem of pay and we spend less on Welfare, demand goes up, tax revenue goes up, jobs increase.

Source. Currydemocrat.org "American Pie:Wealth Income Inequality in America

"Income for the top 20 percent has increased since the 1970s while income for the bottom 80 percent declined. In the 1970s the top 1 percent received 8 percent of total income while today they receive 18 percent. During the same period income for the bottom 20 percent had decreased 30 percent.

In the 1970s the top 0.1 percent of Americans received 2 percent of total income. Today they get 8 percent.

In 1980 the average CEO made 50 time more money than the average worker while today the average CEO makes almost 300 time more than the average worker."
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Old 02-14-2013, 06:14 AM   #259
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Unions are great for pussies who can't work their own deal and earn money based on their own merit.


"Underpaid" is a pretty difficult definition. Not making as much as you would like to earn isn't the same as making $10 for the same job many others earn $15. That is underpaid. I'm sure if some hotshot gets' a new deal, NFL Players with $100mil contracts will complain about being underpaid.

It's not all relative.

When you live in an area where you can rent an apartment for $500, the cost of living is much lower than the same apartment costing $1200 an hour away. Of course employers can get by paying less in the first area, and that cost of labor difference may be why they choose to go to the smaller area, that requires less pay for similar jobs.

As hard as it is for some people to fathom, it's the goal of a company to make money. They aren't charities.
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Old 02-14-2013, 06:24 AM   #260
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Originally Posted by Iowanian View Post
Unions are great for pussies who can't work their own deal and earn money based on their own merit.
Spoken like someone who has no idea of a union does or why. History has shown that in American, the best times of a growing middle class were at the same time as growing union membership.
Would you rather the government force pay higher or the workers to do it themselves?

Everybody has a organization that looks out for their self interests. Unions, Political parties, SuperPacs, Government. There are Guilds, and VFW's, Director Boards. The rich have their rich groups.

I have the first amendment right to a Union, why wouldn't I take advantage of what will increase of lifestyle. Everyone else in America finds every way to just that.

Congratulations on letting Corporate America convince you that your lone voice can make a difference in a multi national company. I am sure it feels great to work against your own self interest.

Source. americanprogressaction.org: As Unions Weaken So does the middle class:

"The states with the lowest percentage of workers in unions—North Carolina, Georgia, Arkansas, Louisiana, Mississippi, South Carolina, Tennessee, Virginia, Oklahoma, and Texas—all have relatively weak middle classes. In each of these states, the share of income going to the middle class (the middle 60 percent of the population by income) is below the national average, according to Census Bureau figures.

Mapping the Census data that has been released this fall to previous years also shows that over time the strength of the middle class and the strength of the union movement have tracked closely together. In 1968, the share of income going to the nation’s middle class was 53.2 percent, when 28 percent of all workers were members of unions. Since then, union membership steadily declined alongside the share of income going to the middle class. By 2010, the middle class only received 46.5 percent of income as union membership dropped to less than 12 percent of workers."
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Old 02-14-2013, 06:32 AM   #261
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If you were a coal miner in the 1930's or a meat packer or a factory sweat shop worker a hundred years ago, you'd have a single relevant point.

Unions have sure been great for the auto industry.


This is spoken like someone who has earned his way and has never required a union to negotiate on my behalf. I'd ask you to pick that up, but you're probably only a laborer's apprentice and haven't passed your "picking stuff up" class yet.
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Old 02-14-2013, 06:40 AM   #262
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This is ridiculous! MINIMUM wage is not for someone to live on, its an entry level job, designed to get you in the door and work your way up.

I employ a young man, for more than the current minimum wage and he is working his way up the ladder. Had I been forced to pay him 9.00 an hour in the beginning, I probably wouldnt have hired him.

This isnt a career position, its an entry level position that people should have access to. This young man is right out of high school and is doing quite well for someone in his position.

Minimum wage isnt for someone to raise a family on, its to get a JOB and see what you can do with it...
If you couldn't have afforded the extra $1.75 ($70 per week) you shouldn't be in business.
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Old 02-14-2013, 06:59 AM   #263
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Originally Posted by Iowanian View Post
If you were a coal miner in the 1930's or a meat packer or a factory sweat shop worker a hundred years ago, you'd have a single relevant point.

Unions have sure been great for the auto industry.


This is spoken like someone who has earned his way and has never required a union to negotiate on my behalf. I'd ask you to pick that up, but you're probably only a laborer's apprentice and haven't passed your "picking stuff up" class yet.
Unions are still needed. 15 million Americans earn minimum wage. Again, would you rather the government raise it or the workers do it themselves? As long as the middle class continues to shrink we will need unions.

Unions had nothing to do with the Auto Industry. And even if you think it did, The managers had to sign all union contracts. Every single one. Why are managers signing contracts that would supposedly wreck a company?

I have no idea what that last part means. I am currently not in a union.

/Auto industry had problems making cars people wanted to buy and the burden of healthcare costs that make education costs blush.
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Old 02-14-2013, 07:12 AM   #264
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Originally Posted by Dave Lane View Post
If you couldn't have afforded the extra $1.75 ($70 per week) you shouldn't be in business.
After you add that to multiple employees then add in workman's comp, FICA
It aint seventy dollars no more
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Old 02-14-2013, 07:18 AM   #265
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Originally Posted by Iowanian View Post
As hard as it is for some people to fathom, it's the goal of a company to make money. They aren't charities.
As a small business owner in need of outside sales help I recently decided to try and hire someone on an offer I jumped at back in the late 80's when I was in my mid 20's and the position I took was in selling sales training to business owners for their employees.

This particular individual was in the same age range and confident he could sell my product with no problem(and keep in mind my monthly advertising booklet has return clients month in and month out) so my offer was,first $3000 sold he gets 100% my company gets nothing,2nd $3000 sold 75%,3rd $3000 sold 50% and finally 25% on last $3000 sold and from there on a 25% commission on everything plus $100 in gas to get him started.

Guy is like well I'm going to need at least $1500 guaranteed when I just offered him $3000 to simply go and do what he was confident he could do.
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Old 02-14-2013, 07:33 AM   #266
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Anyone have any insight as to why the minimum wage is 9.19 in Washington?
The voters there voted years ago to tie minimum wage to inflation. It goes up every single year.


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Originally Posted by Nzoner View Post
As a small business owner in need of outside sales help I recently decided to try and hire someone on an offer I jumped at back in the late 80's when I was in my mid 20's and the position I took was in selling sales training to business owners for their employees.

This particular individual was in the same age range and confident he could sell my product with no problem(and keep in mind my monthly advertising booklet has return clients month in and month out) so my offer was,first $3000 sold he gets 100% my company gets nothing,2nd $3000 sold 75%,3rd $3000 sold 50% and finally 25% on last $3000 sold and from there on a 25% commission on everything plus $100 in gas to get him started.

Guy is like well I'm going to need at least $1500 guaranteed when I just offered him $3000 to simply go and do what he was confident he could do.
That's a hell of an offer. As someone who works in sales let me say that any salesman that needs a guaranteed salary isn't a good salesman.
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Old 02-14-2013, 07:38 AM   #267
Mr. Plow Mr. Plow is offline
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Originally Posted by Dave Lane View Post
If you couldn't have afforded the extra $1.75 ($70 per week) you shouldn't be in business.

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Old 02-14-2013, 07:40 AM   #268
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Unions are still needed. 15 million Americans earn minimum wage. Again, would you rather the government raise it or the workers do it themselves? As long as the middle class continues to shrink we will need unions.
They earn minimum wage doing shit jobs. Low skill and no education or prior training requirements gets you minium wage.
I laugh at people who think Unions are the answers
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Old 02-14-2013, 08:13 AM   #269
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If you couldn't have afforded the extra $1.75 ($70 per week) you shouldn't be in business.

And Charities in great need can't get this logic to work for them. Do you give $70 a week to help others?
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Old 02-14-2013, 08:25 AM   #270
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Anyone else think this is nothing more than a stupid attempt to increase federal tax revenue?

Increasing wages will increase tax revenue, by the time it's figured out that it washes out the jug eared marxist will be out of office.
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