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Old 01-31-2013, 08:54 PM  
Chocolate Hog Chocolate Hog is offline
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Why do people like Chris Christie?

I've never seen this guy say anything thoughtful and he always seems angry. Why is he so appealing to confused peopled like Kotter?
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Old 02-10-2013, 11:26 AM   #106
chiefzilla1501 chiefzilla1501 is offline
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
May I ask what part of the word "conspiracy" you do not understand.

There was nothing remotely conspiratorial in my post. You are mis-using the word and falling back on a robotic talking point loved by statists.
It is a conspiracy theory because you talk in such absolutes. As if individuals should not take accountability for their actions, but rather they were forced to do the wildly unethical things they did to comply with excessive regulation.

You don't create a crisis like this without multiple things going wrong creating a perfect storm. This is as much about free market participants acting unethically and unchecked as it is about market intervention. There were too many players within the system trying to game the system. And let's not act like they did this all because they were forced to gamble. They did it for self interest. This is about bad government AND bad people within the market. To say government intervention was the root cause of the problem excuses the problematic individuals within the system.
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Old 02-10-2013, 09:26 PM   #107
DementedLogic DementedLogic is offline
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Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 View Post
It is a conspiracy theory because you talk in such absolutes. As if individuals should not take accountability for their actions, but rather they were forced to do the wildly unethical things they did to comply with excessive regulation.

You don't create a crisis like this without multiple things going wrong creating a perfect storm. This is as much about free market participants acting unethically and unchecked as it is about market intervention. There were too many players within the system trying to game the system. And let's not act like they did this all because they were forced to gamble. They did it for self interest. This is about bad government AND bad people within the market. To say government intervention was the root cause of the problem excuses the problematic individuals within the system.
The crisis would not have happened without government intervention into the marketplace. That is no oversimplification, that is the truth. Without the massive bubble caused by the federal reserve, there is no crash. The private sector participants should have to take accountability for their actions, but the government intervened in that as well. Creating more regulations doesn't fix the problem, it hurts the businesses who didn't contribute to the crisis. As long as the federal reserve continues with keynesian monetary policy, there will be bubble formation. Those bubbles will burst, as all do.
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Old 02-10-2013, 10:46 PM   #108
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 View Post
It is a conspiracy theory because you talk in such absolutes.
Unbelievable! That doesn't make it a conspiracy which is a crime committed by more than one person in secret. I know what you're problem is, you're somewhat illiterate—definitely economically illiterate. You might want to look up the meaning of a word before you throw it around accusing others of it.

Quote:
You don't create a crisis like this without multiple things going wrong creating a perfect storm. This is as much about free market participants acting unethically and unchecked as it is about market intervention. There were too many players within the system trying to game the system. And let's not act like they did this all because they were forced to gamble. They did it for self interest. This is about bad government AND bad people within the market. To say government intervention was the root cause of the problem excuses the problematic individuals within the system.
You just don't get it. Try studying free-market economics for starters. You wouldn't know a market if you saw one. You're a central planner.
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Old 02-10-2013, 10:47 PM   #109
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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Originally Posted by DementedLogic View Post
The crisis would not have happened without government intervention into the marketplace. That is no oversimplification, that is the truth. Without the massive bubble caused by the federal reserve, there is no crash. The private sector participants should have to take accountability for their actions, but the government intervened in that as well. Creating more regulations doesn't fix the problem, it hurts the businesses who didn't contribute to the crisis. As long as the federal reserve continues with keynesian monetary policy, there will be bubble formation. Those bubbles will burst, as all do.
He lacks a basic understanding of our system, economics and moral hazard.
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Old 02-10-2013, 11:01 PM   #110
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Originally Posted by DementedLogic View Post
This country needs another president like Grover Cleveland.
I've got to admit, I did not see that coming.
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Old 02-10-2013, 11:26 PM   #111
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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Grover Cleveland was da' bomb. The boring presidents don't get much fanfare, but they are the true but quiet heroes. He had the most vetoes in a single congressional session. Good stuff from a good man!
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Old 02-10-2013, 11:57 PM   #112
chiefzilla1501 chiefzilla1501 is offline
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
He lacks a basic understanding of our system, economics and moral hazard.
I do not like regulation. I hate Dodd Frank. I hate QE and I am not a fan of the Federal Reserve. I understand their contribution to our economic problems including the economic crisis. But they were bigger problems than that.

The crisis was built around investors riding the mortgage market because they built a flawed calculation and became overconfident in it, and loaded trillions of dollars in derivatives, namely mortgage backed securities. They didn't do these things because the market forced them to with regulation. They did this because they WANTED to and the market allowed them to do it.

To no surprise, when the mortgage market collapsed, then guess what happens to your trillions of dollars of derivatives dependent on gambles made on the housing market? The housing market collapse could easily be blamed on both public and private sector, but it was that collapse that triggered the derivative bomb to go off.

The housing market would have hurt our economy. It was overspeculation in derivatives that wrecking balled the economy.

So yes, it is an unbelievable oversimplification to blame excessive regulation when the primary root cause for the devastation was in private investors taking part in unbelievably risky behaviors and nobody tried to stop them.
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Old 02-11-2013, 01:16 AM   #113
DementedLogic DementedLogic is offline
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Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 View Post
I do not like regulation. I hate Dodd Frank. I hate QE and I am not a fan of the Federal Reserve. I understand their contribution to our economic problems including the economic crisis. But they were bigger problems than that.

The crisis was built around investors riding the mortgage market because they built a flawed calculation and became overconfident in it, and loaded trillions of dollars in derivatives, namely mortgage backed securities. They didn't do these things because the market forced them to with regulation. They did this because they WANTED to and the market allowed them to do it.

To no surprise, when the mortgage market collapsed, then guess what happens to your trillions of dollars of derivatives dependent on gambles made on the housing market? The housing market collapse could easily be blamed on both public and private sector, but it was that collapse that triggered the derivative bomb to go off.

The housing market would have hurt our economy. It was overspeculation in derivatives that wrecking balled the economy.

So yes, it is an unbelievable oversimplification to blame excessive regulation when the primary root cause for the devastation was in private investors taking part in unbelievably risky behaviors and nobody tried to stop them.
Without the federal reserve manipulating interest rates, the GSEs, and the community reinvestment act, the crisis would not have happened. All of those are government interventions into the marketplace. The private investors would not have been able to do what they did, without government.
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Old 02-11-2013, 07:39 AM   #114
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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Originally Posted by DementedLogic View Post
Without the federal reserve manipulating interest rates, the GSEs, and the community reinvestment act, the crisis would not have happened. All of those are government interventions into the marketplace. The private investors would not have been able to do what they did, without government.
Exactly. Manipulating interests rates, making them too low, is also price fixing. Price controls from a central bank covers two planks of socialism. While it is true there was greed unleashed, created by perverse incentives, it was done for housing socialism. Funny how the richies connected to govt power get richer, while the left cries for more of the same.
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