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Old 02-09-2013, 06:04 PM  
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Everything that is right and wrong about immigration debate in one link.
The link: http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Governm...ployees-Leader

The first part of the story's title:

Quote:
Exclusive: Illegal Immigrant to Testify in Senate Next Week
The guy testifying:



He's apparently a Pullitzer Prize winner.

From the story:

Quote:
Vargas, who works as a journalist, arrived in the U.S. from the Philippines at the age of 12, but is not eligible for the administration’s new guidelines [the DREAM executive orders] because of his age. He will be speaking for his advocacy organization, Define American.
And that, right there, is everything that is right about the immigration debate we're having right now.

Immigration reform seems to have a lot of positive momentum, and undocumented immigrants like Vargas can leave the world of shadows and deportations and enter a society where they are fully capable of participating in every way all other Americans and immigrants can. These people are essentially reborn as contributors to society, and just about every metric we have available tells us that bringing these people into the light, along with their talents and their desire to participate legitimately in the American economy, will make us a stronger country.

But then there's what's wrong with the debate, and it's in the same link.

Here's the second part of the story's title:

Quote:
Exclusive: Illegal Immigrant to Testify in Senate Next Week--With ICE Agent Who Cannot Arrest Him
From the story:

Quote:
Breitbart News has learned that one of the witnesses at the Senate Judiciary Committee hearings on immigration next week will be outspoken illegal immigrant Jose Antonio Vargas--who will be seated at the same table as Chris Crane, leader of the Immigrations and Customs Enforcement employees’ union that is suing the government over Obama administration rules that make it very difficult for ICE agents to arrest illegal immigrants.
As we all know, Breitbart News is a GOP shill site that plays to the Republican base.

And even in the face of all the evidence that immigration reform will make our country stronger, and even in the face of the ideals this country was founded on, and even in the face of eleven million people who live essentially a second-tiered existence and put up with that bullshit because it's still better than what they get back home... the GOP base still demands a "deport them all" mindset.

I cannot wait for immigration reform to pass and bring these people out of the shadows, and slowly grind away the xenophobia that is driving the "deport them all" mindset over the next generation or two.
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Old 02-09-2013, 06:11 PM   #2
ClevelandBronco ClevelandBronco is offline
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I'm willing to look at immigration reform for Pulitzer Prize winners, but I'm not promising anything (despite the horrors he must be suffering in his world of shadows).
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Old 02-09-2013, 06:14 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by ClevelandBronco View Post
I'm willing to look at immigration reform for Pulitzer Prize winners, but I'm not promising anything (despite the horrors he must be suffering in his world of shadows).
I think we can both agree his ability to succeed despite the obstacles of being an undocumented immigrant are the extreme minority.
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Old 02-09-2013, 06:15 PM   #4
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Illegal immigration is illegal.
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Old 02-09-2013, 06:17 PM   #5
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Originally Posted by theelusiveeightrop View Post
Illegal immigration is illegal.
He was brought here when he was 12.
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Old 02-09-2013, 06:23 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
I think we can both agree his ability to succeed despite the obstacles of being an undocumented immigrant are the extreme minority.
Yes, he seems to be a person who would bring something special to our club. I don't think that's a particularly valid reason to invite his 11 million friends to join, though.
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Old 02-09-2013, 06:41 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by ClevelandBronco View Post
Yes, he seems to be a person who would bring something special to our club. I don't think that's a particularly valid reason to invite his 11 million friends to join, though.
Is that your bar, then? Whomever meets your arbitrary standard of "special"?
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Old 02-09-2013, 06:43 PM   #8
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I still have never recieved a good answer to these questions regarding illegal immigration:

If most illegal immigrants do work that most Americans would not do for the same wages, then what's going to happen when everyone is subject to federal minimum wage laws? What then? Do those jobs just disappear? Or is the left ok with some "slave labor"?
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Old 02-09-2013, 06:46 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donkhater View Post
I still have never recieved a good answer to these questions regarding illegal immigration:

If most illegal immigrants do work that most Americans would not do for the same wages, then what's going to happen when everyone is subject to federal minimum wage laws? What then? Do those jobs just disappear? Or is the left ok with some "slave labor"?
I don't think I'm qualified to answer this question. I'm not an economist.

Obviously everybody will have to be paid a legal minimum wage at the very least. When you include them, the economy in just about every study improves, from decently or strongly depending on the study.
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Old 02-09-2013, 06:51 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
Is that your bar, then? Whomever meets your arbitrary standard of "special"?
Yes. I'm not a big fan of retched refuse. It doesn't necessarily have to be "my" standard of special, but I'd be happier if they meet some arbitrary standard of special.
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Old 02-09-2013, 06:55 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by ClevelandBronco View Post
Yes. I'm not a big fan of retched refuse.
I don't think anybody's proposing we allow violent criminals among the undocumented population to attain citizenship.

So, as long as they're lawful?
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Old 02-09-2013, 06:59 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
I don't think anybody's proposing we allow violent criminals among the undocumented population to attain citizenship.

So, as long as they're lawful?
My standard would be far tougher than simply avoiding involvement in the criminal justice system. Show me how a given individual benefits the U.S. and we can talk.
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Old 02-09-2013, 07:03 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by donkhater View Post
I still have never recieved a good answer to these questions regarding illegal immigration:

If most illegal immigrants do work that most Americans would not do for the same wages, then what's going to happen when everyone is subject to federal minimum wage laws? What then? Do those jobs just disappear? Or is the left ok with some "slave labor"?
I thought they were all engineers?
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Old 02-09-2013, 07:08 PM   #14
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Originally Posted by ClevelandBronco View Post
My standard would be far tougher than simply avoiding involvement in the criminal justice system. Show me how a given individual benefits the U.S. and we can talk.
I can show how the collection of individuals we're talking about does exactly that.

Your alternative, which is essentially a "Prove Your Worth To Me" Panel, is assinine.
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Old 02-09-2013, 07:14 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donkhater View Post
I still have never recieved a good answer to these questions regarding illegal immigration:

If most illegal immigrants do work that most Americans would not do for the same wages, then what's going to happen when everyone is subject to federal minimum wage laws? What then? Do those jobs just disappear? Or is the left ok with some "slave labor"?
The bullshit that they only do the jobs Americans won't do is a joke. Drive by any job site and see who is running the equipment. Operating heavy equipment and construction work in general has been taken over and it sure as hell ain't because Americans won't do it~
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