***OFFICIAL*** 2013 STL Cardinals Thread

[BigRedChief]

Cards Minor league system ranked #1 in baseball by Baseball America.

As the Cardinals reorganized the direction — and leadership — of their amateur scouting and minor-league system several years ago, executives pointed at times to rankings from media outlets such as Baseball America, including one that labeled them last in talent as recently as 2005.
“It was a wake-up call to get better,” Cardinals general manager John Mozeliak said.


If rankings continued to be an indication, getting better was only the beginning.


When Baseball America’s 2013 Prospect Handbook reaches shelves early next month, the Cardinals will be unveiled as the annual publication’s No. 1 minor-league system in a ranking of all 30 clubs’ minor-league talent through mid-December, editors at the magazine confirmed.

.
If so, it will be the first time since Baseball America began ranking organizations in 1984 that the Cardinals will have earned the No. 1 spot. It is a significant turnaround for a club that was ranked 30th in minor-league talent in 2002 and 2005.

“People don’t remember how they had some tough drafts and a non-existent international program,” said Jim Callis, an executive at Baseball America. “It was a bad trend. I don’t think people realized how bad it was because of the success at the major-league level. That kind of masked it. It hid how bad the underpinnings were.”


Baseball America’s annual organization rankings are based on the conversations and individual rankings from four of the magazine’s editors. All four had the Cardinals ranked No. 1 this year, Callis said.


The rise comes eight seasons after the Cardinals ranked 30th and represents a steady climb up from a decade spent in the lower third of baseball.


From 2000 through 2007, the Cardinals highest rank was 21.

And yet in the eight seasons since being No. 30 the Cardinals have made strides at the minor-league level while winning two World Series and appearing in four NL championship series.

From 2005 to 2011, no team in the majors had as many drafted players contribute at the major-league level as the Cardinals.

They have not had a pick higher than 13th overall since 1999.


The Cardinals have been successful drafting and grooming complementary players and assets later traded such as former first-rounders Brett Wallace and Colby Rasmus. On the horizon this year are players viewed by several scouting publications as top-shelf talents. Callis has outfielder Oscar Taveras ranked as the second-best position player in all of the minors and righthander Shelby Miller as the second-best pitching prospect in all of the minors. Pitchers Carlos Martinez and Trevor Rosenthal and second baseman Kolten Wong also rate high compared to prospects in other systems.

“I look for elite talent,” Callis explained. “I think you do win with stars. I don’t think you can only win with being solid everywhere but not having a superstar. … I look for balance in the system. I look for how advanced the talent is through the system. (With the Cardinals) you’re looking at an extremely talented farm system with players like Shelby Miller and Trevor Rosenthal who are close to being big-league ready or already are.”
Callis pointed to the Cardinals 2012 draft as an example of the organization’s depth. The Cards had five picks in the first 59. Yet, Callis noted, only one of the picks was able to crack the top seven prospects (see chart).


“One of the things in this time period is that we have invest heavily in the draft, taking advantage of extra picks at the time, and improving what we do in the international market,” Mozeliak said. “It really is a great credit to our scouting, our international staff, and the player development group that turns what scouts give them into prospects.”


The full article here:
http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseb...836de8b3a.html

[Mi_chief_fan]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

MLB.com announce the top outfield prospects in all of baseball. Who's #1?

Talk about setting the bar high. Last year's Top 10 outfielders list was led by the two players who ended up as the Rookies of the Year. Bryce Harper of the Nationals and Mike Trout of the Angels obviously have graduated, but this year's Top 10 outfielders list has a ton of future rookie-award candidates on it. And there are some new names, with only three outfielders returning from 2012.


1. Oscar Taveras, Cardinals: The Cardinals' signing of Taveras out of the Dominican Republic in 2008 for a mere $145,000 could go down as one the biggest bargains in recent memory. Perhaps the best pure hitter in the Minors, Taveras handled a double jump to Double-A last season by going to the Futures Game and earning Texas League Player of the Year honors. Taveras has done nothing but hit for plenty of average, and the power continues to come, along with improved plate discipline. He has everything to be an All-Star-caliber outfielder who hits in the middle of a big league lineup for years.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?...s_mlb&c_id=mlb

[Mi_chief_fan]

Originally Posted by Mi_chief_fan

That's just damned impressive for a 21-year old.

Check that:20-year old

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by Mi_chief_fan

Check that:20-year old

MLB.com picked Taveras as the 3rd best prospect in all of baseball. Called him a young Barry Bonds on the show.
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?...47916&c_id=stl

Tied for the lead of all teams with the most players on the top 100 prospects team, 6.

[duncan_idaho]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

MLB.com picked Taveras as the 3rd best prospect in all of baseball. Called him a young Barry Bonds on the show.
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?...47916&c_id=stl

Tied for the lead of all teams with the most players on the top 100 prospects team, 6.

Taveras is a beast.

I don't get the Barry Bonds comparison (will have to go watch the clip). It makes sense if you're just talking about his bat. But Taveras isn't as fast/the base-stealing threat Bonds was in his youth, and Taveras also doesn't throw like a girl like Bonds did (making him a viable RF or even CF in a pinch and adding some defensive value).

I am weighing carefully between targeting Taveras or Jurickson Profar as my rookie must-have in my fantasy baseball auction/keeper league.

I like Taveras' bat more, but Profar's positional scarcity and ability to help with his legs (while playing in a hitter's paradise) probably give him a slight edge. Whichever one I nab, they will make a nice addition on the shelf next to Mike Trout ($8), Bryce Harper ($5) and Chris Sale ($4).

I'd be interested to hear thoughts on Shelby Miller and Matt Holliday. I can keep Miller for $4 at my last keeper spot and am trying to sort out how likely he is to make the rotation at some point this year. Holliday is my other option at my last keeper spot. He's a bit pricy ($32 - $300 cap, 24 players) and I'm worried about his late-season drop-off/age.

What say you, Cards fans?

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

Taveras is a beast.

I don't get the Barry Bonds comparison (will have to go watch the clip). It makes sense if you're just talking about his bat. But Taveras isn't as fast/the base-stealing threat Bonds was in his youth, and Taveras also doesn't throw like a girl like Bonds did (making him a viable RF or even CF in a pinch and adding some defensive value).

I am weighing carefully between targeting Taveras or Jurickson Profar as my rookie must-have in my fantasy baseball auction/keeper league.

I like Taveras' bat more, but Profar's positional scarcity and ability to help with his legs (while playing in a hitter's paradise) probably give him a slight edge. Whichever one I nab, they will make a nice addition on the shelf next to Mike Trout ($8), Bryce Harper ($5) and Chris Sale ($4).

I'd be interested to hear thoughts on Shelby Miller and Matt Holliday. I can keep Miller for $4 at my last keeper spot and am trying to sort out how likely he is to make the rotation at some point this year. Holliday is my other option at my last keeper spot. He's a bit pricy ($32 - $300 cap, 24 players) and I'm worried about his late-season drop-off/age.

What say you, Cards fans?

yes. If a pitcher goes down or performs poorly, he's first up. We have 3 candidates that could **** up. He will see the mound quite a bit.

Holliday is a consistent .300/20-25/100 hitter every season for the 7-8 years. He usually starts off slow and then he's really hot and then the fall off at the end.

[PGM]

All questions about Holiday are reserved for frazod

[frazod]

Originally Posted by PGM

All questions about Holiday are reserved for frazod

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by PGM

All questions about Holiday are reserved for frazod

[Mi_chief_fan]

I saw the Bonds comparison, and I didn't get it either. Young Bonds didn't have near the power that I've heard Tavares has, but was faster & a better base stealer. The comparison I've heard that makes the most sense (and still sounds pretty good) is Vlad Guerrero. If he's that good, I'll take it.

[PGM]

Originally Posted by Mi_chief_fan

I saw the Bonds comparison, and I didn't get it either. Young Bonds didn't have near the power that I've heard Tavares has, but was faster & a better base stealer. The comparison I've heard that makes the most sense (and still sounds pretty good) is Vlad Guerrero. If he's that good, I'll take it.

I would hope so

[Marco Polo]

Just scored my tickets for my fifth straight Opening Day in STL. Just booked my flight!

[Mi_chief_fan]

Jason Parks @Professor Parks I just asked a pro scouting dir about the biggest weakness in Oscar Tavares's game: "He doesn't play for us.That's all I can think of."

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by Mi_chief_fan

Jason Parks @Professor Parks I just asked a pro scouting dir about the biggest weakness in Oscar Tavares's game: "He doesn't play for us.That's all I can think of."

$145K bonus? Wonder if the Cardinals got "Pujols" lucky again?

[Mi_chief_fan]

Say, did any of you see MLB Network's top 50 prospects show? It's supposed to air again at 6pm et (5 pm ct) tonight. Cards well represented, as are the Royals. Also, the Rays have a couple 9f ex-Royals.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Mi_chief_fan

I saw the Bonds comparison, and I didn't get it either. Young Bonds didn't have near the power that I've heard Tavares has, but was faster & a better base stealer. The comparison I've heard that makes the most sense (and still sounds pretty good) is Vlad Guerrero. If he's that good, I'll take it.

I'm not sure Oscar has the power that Vladdy has...afterall, I'm pretty sure Vladdy was 'enhanced' during his peak power years. And really, I don't see Oscar being the base-stealer that Vlad was during his peak either.

Maybe Chase Utley? But I think Tavares is a more aggressive hitter than Utley; probably won't have the OBP that he had. Maybe Bernie Williams? But again, Bernie drew a ton of walks.

Really, if you combine Bernie's batted ball profile with Torii Hunter's aggressive approach, I think you have Oscar. But a lot of those guys I'm a little reluctant to compare him to started drawing more walks as they got a little older, so maybe that's in store for Tavares as well. If he ever really refines his eye, he could easily be a Bernie Williams or Bobby Abreu type hitter.

Let's just compare him to All-Stars right now. We'll worry about comparing him to HOFers when he gets his 1000th hit or so...